Simple wiring jobs in the house- have a crack or get a man??
Discussion
Mercdriver said:
Take care of previously dodgy work, our house had DIY connection of lights to power circuit without separate fuse. Sparky rewired kitchen for us and I warned him of dodgy wiring and to switch off the whole house when he was working on the kitchen.
Did he listen to me? No, pulled C/B for the lighting circuit and worked on the rewiring of the kitchen light.
Oh s
t I heard he had got a shock from badly installed light switch with feed from socket ring main, very naughty.
So do not assume that previous work has been carried out by a competent sparky, it might save your life, always check cables with a multimeter. If you don’t know how to use one get a qualified sparky in.
I've got sockets running off light circuits, and vice versa - all previous bodgery. That's why I always test with a meter before working on any wires. It takes seconds and you can get a meter for £5. Even then, I always tap bare wire ends with a finger before grasping, just in case my meter is faulty (highly unlikely) - that way I'll geta shock but won't be grasping - and you usually can't let go whilst grasping.Did he listen to me? No, pulled C/B for the lighting circuit and worked on the rewiring of the kitchen light.
Oh s
t I heard he had got a shock from badly installed light switch with feed from socket ring main, very naughty.So do not assume that previous work has been carried out by a competent sparky, it might save your life, always check cables with a multimeter. If you don’t know how to use one get a qualified sparky in.
Griffith4ever said:
I always tap bare wire ends with a finger before grasping, just in case my meter is faulty (highly unlikely) - that way I'll geta shock but won't be grasping - and you usually can't let go whilst grasping.
The proper 'safest' way I was taught was with the back of the fingers on your right hand, so you don't grasp, the reaction to the shock is to recoil away and you aren't putting current through the problematic side of your chest. Only valid on low voltage AC mains!Best not to touch anything that's possibly live but at least you can minimise the risk if you do.
Crack on, just learn how to isolate and check it’s dead before working, just a tip though, I wouldn’t say you are doing electrical work or ask questions on this forum otherwise every other sparky smart arse will just ask you what the electrician you had around said, or just put the fear of god into you about how dangerous it is and how electrical diy should be banned.
As said above - apply (lots) of common sense, check & check again that the power is off.
And it's good practice (as has been said above) not to touch exposed metal if at all possible & wear shoes with rubber soles. Just to add a bit more safety.
It's also good practice to take a photo or make a sketch of e.g. ceiling rose before dismantling. But here's the apply common sense bit: Check out what you intend to do on You Tube and if what you find doesn't look right, then maybe it isn't - so time to think about getting a sparky in. You simply can't assume that the work was done previously correctly (ask me how I know - immersion heater with no thermostat connected to the lighting circuit in my first house by a tradesman).
And it's good practice (as has been said above) not to touch exposed metal if at all possible & wear shoes with rubber soles. Just to add a bit more safety.
It's also good practice to take a photo or make a sketch of e.g. ceiling rose before dismantling. But here's the apply common sense bit: Check out what you intend to do on You Tube and if what you find doesn't look right, then maybe it isn't - so time to think about getting a sparky in. You simply can't assume that the work was done previously correctly (ask me how I know - immersion heater with no thermostat connected to the lighting circuit in my first house by a tradesman).
alfabeat said:
Get yourself one of these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-ac-non-contact-volt...
Just swipe around all the wires before touching anything to double check nothing is live. I learned my lesson on an old house that had very strange wiring circuits (DIY!), which still had a live socket despite the breaker being off and all other sockets being dead.
better than nothing.... but not the way to do it...Just swipe around all the wires before touching anything to double check nothing is live. I learned my lesson on an old house that had very strange wiring circuits (DIY!), which still had a live socket despite the breaker being off and all other sockets being dead.
even using a multimeter... thats a no no...
want to do it right you use a set of test lamps. And a proving unit. prove the test lamp check the circuit and prove the test lamp again. It is the right way and the safe way of doing it.
https://www.tester.co.uk/martindale-vipd138-s-volt...
yes i know if its a once in a blue moon..... but this is the official way of checking and proving dead.
https://martindale-electric.co.uk/2015/safe-isolat...
Edited by ruggedscotty on Thursday 26th May 22:29
Piersman2 said:
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
But with electricity you could kill yourself or burn your house down in the worst case.
I can't help but think killing yourself would be the slightly worse case scenario here, unless of course multiple people happened to be in the house and couldn't get out when it went on fire! 
Edited by TriumphStag3.0V8 on Thursday 26th May 23:04
alfabeat said:
Get yourself one of these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-ac-non-contact-volt...
Just swipe around all the wires before touching anything to double check nothing is live. I learned my lesson on an old house that had very strange wiring circuits (DIY!), which still had a live socket despite the breaker being off and all other sockets being dead.
Was going to suggest one of those, easier and probably safer than using a multi-meter if you've never used one before.Just swipe around all the wires before touching anything to double check nothing is live. I learned my lesson on an old house that had very strange wiring circuits (DIY!), which still had a live socket despite the breaker being off and all other sockets being dead.
ARHarh said:
alfabeat said:
Get yourself one of these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-ac-non-contact-volt...
Just swipe around all the wires before touching anything to double check nothing is live. I learned my lesson on an old house that had very strange wiring circuits (DIY!), which still had a live socket despite the breaker being off and all other sockets being dead.
Was going to suggest one of those, easier and probably safer than using a multi-meter if you've never used one before.Just swipe around all the wires before touching anything to double check nothing is live. I learned my lesson on an old house that had very strange wiring circuits (DIY!), which still had a live socket despite the breaker being off and all other sockets being dead.
https://www.toolstation.com/roughneck-mains-tester...
or this:
https://www.toolstation.com/socket-tester/p82826
To validate that a circuit is dead?
(genuine question because those are what I use)
alfabeat said:
Get yourself one of these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-ac-non-contact-volt...
Just swipe around all the wires before touching anything to double check nothing is live. I learned my lesson on an old house that had very strange wiring circuits (DIY!), which still had a live socket despite the breaker being off and all other sockets being dead.
I have one of these. My hip is live but my lighting circuit isn't. Just swipe around all the wires before touching anything to double check nothing is live. I learned my lesson on an old house that had very strange wiring circuits (DIY!), which still had a live socket despite the breaker being off and all other sockets being dead.
Multimeter all the way for me.
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
Could one of the tester people explain to me why he would need anything more than this:
https://www.toolstation.com/roughneck-mains-tester...
or this:
https://www.toolstation.com/socket-tester/p82826
To validate that a circuit is dead?
(genuine question because those are what I use)
No reason not to use the 1st item. I have several meters , so I use them. They are to hand, and I trust them.https://www.toolstation.com/roughneck-mains-tester...
or this:
https://www.toolstation.com/socket-tester/p82826
To validate that a circuit is dead?
(genuine question because those are what I use)
Meters are so cheap it's kind of hard to justify a new purchase of even £2.99 for a glowing screwdriver when £2 more gets you a far more useful tool:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164779150579?hash=item2...
Now not only can you test for a live, but you can test continuity - amongst a lot of other things (including 12v electrics in your car etc)
Griffith4ever said:
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
Could one of the tester people explain to me why he would need anything more than this:
https://www.toolstation.com/roughneck-mains-tester...
or this:
https://www.toolstation.com/socket-tester/p82826
To validate that a circuit is dead?
(genuine question because those are what I use)
No reason not to use the 1st item. I have several meters , so I use them. They are to hand, and I trust them.https://www.toolstation.com/roughneck-mains-tester...
or this:
https://www.toolstation.com/socket-tester/p82826
To validate that a circuit is dead?
(genuine question because those are what I use)
Meters are so cheap it's kind of hard to justify a new purchase of even 2.99 for a glowing screwdriver when 2 more gets you a far more useful tool:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164779150579?hash=item2...
Now not only can you test for a live, but you can test continuity - amongst a lot of other things (including 12v electrics in your car etc)
). Never really thought about using them for the mains - though you are right, they would be fine for that. I guess for me (lazy) it is nice to be able to test the connections are not live and then use the same tool that is already in my hand to undo the screws (as with every type of tester, test the live circuit to prove the tester before relying on it).ruggedscotty said:
better than nothing.... but not the way to do it...
even using a multimeter... thats a no no...
want to do it right you use a set of test lamps. And a proving unit. prove the test lamp check the circuit and prove the test lamp again. It is the right way and the safe way of doing it.
https://www.tester.co.uk/martindale-vipd138-s-volt...
yes i know if its a once in a blue moon..... but this is the official way of checking and proving dead.
https://martindale-electric.co.uk/2015/safe-isolat...
even using a multimeter... thats a no no...
want to do it right you use a set of test lamps. And a proving unit. prove the test lamp check the circuit and prove the test lamp again. It is the right way and the safe way of doing it.
https://www.tester.co.uk/martindale-vipd138-s-volt...
yes i know if its a once in a blue moon..... but this is the official way of checking and proving dead.
https://martindale-electric.co.uk/2015/safe-isolat...
Edited by ruggedscotty on Thursday 26th May 22:29
Link said said:
The reason why a Multimeter is not suitable is that it is all too easy to select the wrong range. In addition, the Multimeter relies on battery power to function, thus there is a great margin for error in making a false “dead” reading on a live circuit.
Wibble. Assuming I selected the wrong range, I'm still going to see voltage reported. They might sound more authoritative if they suggested mistaken use of diode mode. As for the battery, what nonsense.I suppose catering for the lowest common denominator, a light on a stick is the thing.
Scolmore said:
ruggedscotty said:
better than nothing.... but not the way to do it...
even using a multimeter... thats a no no...
want to do it right you use a set of test lamps. And a proving unit. prove the test lamp check the circuit and prove the test lamp again. It is the right way and the safe way of doing it.
https://www.tester.co.uk/martindale-vipd138-s-volt...
yes i know if its a once in a blue moon..... but this is the official way of checking and proving dead.
https://martindale-electric.co.uk/2015/safe-isolat...
even using a multimeter... thats a no no...
want to do it right you use a set of test lamps. And a proving unit. prove the test lamp check the circuit and prove the test lamp again. It is the right way and the safe way of doing it.
https://www.tester.co.uk/martindale-vipd138-s-volt...
yes i know if its a once in a blue moon..... but this is the official way of checking and proving dead.
https://martindale-electric.co.uk/2015/safe-isolat...
Edited by ruggedscotty on Thursday 26th May 22:29
Link said said:
The reason why a Multimeter is not suitable is that it is all too easy to select the wrong range. In addition, the Multimeter relies on battery power to function, thus there is a great margin for error in making a false “dead” reading on a live circuit.
Wibble. Assuming I selected the wrong range, I'm still going to see voltage reported. They might sound more authoritative if they suggested mistaken use of diode mode. As for the battery, what nonsense.I suppose catering for the lowest common denominator, a light on a stick is the thing.
I've been working on , and making (or repairing), things with 240v circuits all my adult life. The worst a multi meter has ever done is read DC innacurate when the battery is dying.
"great margin for error in making a false “dead” reading on a live circuit." - Anyone with more than half a brain cell takes a test reading to see 240v on their meter before doing any work that involves touching wires with their hands. I suppose you can't protect the terminally stupid.
I also don't attach an earth strap to my ankle, and a caribbean attached to the nearest solid surface, when changing my TV remote batteries
If you really want to test the meter out check it on something you know is live first, hopefully this will show you it works and what 'live' looks like.
Always worth testing everything even when you 'know' it's all isolated - I once found that the earth connection was energised, and it was from an external fault so even with the service fuse pulled it still had volts on it at a level you'd definitely notice if you touched it while grounded.
Always worth testing everything even when you 'know' it's all isolated - I once found that the earth connection was energised, and it was from an external fault so even with the service fuse pulled it still had volts on it at a level you'd definitely notice if you touched it while grounded.
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