Simple wiring jobs in the house- have a crack or get a man??

[ruggedscotty]

Scolmore said:

ruggedscotty said:

better than nothing.... but not the way to do it...

even using a multimeter... thats a no no...

want to do it right you use a set of test lamps. And a proving unit. prove the test lamp check the circuit and prove the test lamp again. It is the right way and the safe way of doing it.

https://www.tester.co.uk/martindale-vipd138-s-volt...

yes i know if its a once in a blue moon..... but this is the official way of checking and proving dead.


https://martindale-electric.co.uk/2015/safe-isolat...

Edited by ruggedscotty on Thursday 26th May 22:29

Link said said:

The reason why a Multimeter is not suitable is that it is all too easy to select the wrong range. In addition, the Multimeter relies on battery power to function, thus there is a great margin for error in making a false “dead” reading on a live circuit.

Wibble. Assuming I selected the wrong range, I'm still going to see voltage reported. They might sound more authoritative if they suggested mistaken use of diode mode. As for the battery, what nonsense.
I suppose catering for the lowest common denominator, a light on a stick is the thing.

lots of good electricians out there.,.. and few bad electricians.... wonder why ?

Your multi meter leads are not designed for mains. are they fused ? whats the applicable standard for test leads. and what is the amount of bare metal allowed to be exposed at the tips of the leads....?

nonsense or no sense... you decide...

[The Road Crew]

My multimeter is rated to 600V AC. How is that not mains suitable? (genuine question, I'm not a spark but have done a fair bit of household DIY but am always willing to learn about stuff)

[cylon]

So if I want to add two double sockets in say a study or bedroom, would that be notifiable? Say taking a spur of an existing double socket and adding FCU then two double sockets?

I understand a no no in bathrooms in kitchens.

[jason61c]

ruggedscotty said:

lots of good electricians out there.,.. and few bad electricians.... wonder why ?

Your multi meter leads are not designed for mains. are they fused ? whats the applicable standard for test leads. and what is the amount of bare metal allowed to be exposed at the tips of the leads....?

nonsense or no sense... you decide...

I’d say most are 600v, so why is that not suitable?

[Scolmore]

ruggedscotty said:

lots of good electricians out there.,.. and few bad electricians.... wonder why ?

Your multi meter leads are not designed for mains. are they fused ? whats the applicable standard for test leads. and what is the amount of bare metal allowed to be exposed at the tips of the leads....?

nonsense or no sense... you decide...

I don’t think you’ve ever used a multimeter…

[TriumphStag3.0V8]

cylon said:

So if I want to add two double sockets in say a study or bedroom, would that be notifiable? Say taking a spur of an existing double socket and adding FCU then two double sockets?

I understand a no no in bathrooms in kitchens.

That is non-notifiable, so yes you can, and you don't need a FCU for a single socket from a socket on a ring. The fun begins when you remove a faceplate and then find only one wire in there ....
If you wanted to add two you should extend the ring (easy if you are putting one socket next to an existing) or yes, put both behind a 13A fused spur. Or take one spur from a different original socket if you have that option.

IANAE but I'm sure one will be along shortly to express horror at the above.

[Griffith4ever]

Scolmore said:

ruggedscotty said:

lots of good electricians out there.,.. and few bad electricians.... wonder why ?

Your multi meter leads are not designed for mains. are they fused ? whats the applicable standard for test leads. and what is the amount of bare metal allowed to be exposed at the tips of the leads....?

nonsense or no sense... you decide...

I don’t think you’ve ever used a multimeter…

I get the same feeling. :-). They are designed exactly for dealing with high voltage AC. They are literally made for the job.

[ruggedscotty]

multimeter used for faultfinding on electronics.

Power wiring... use

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/proving-units/23806...

Prove tester - check for voltage on the point to be tested and then prove again.

Always.

LVAP Low voltage Appointed Person
HVAP High voltage Appointed Person

As Ill say multimeters especially those junk specials should not be used to prove or confirm dead.

[Griffith4ever]

..... o...k......

[sri16v]

Griffith4ever said:

I get the same feeling. :-). They are designed exactly for dealing with high voltage AC. They are literally made for the job.

Hes right though in what he's saying, but a multi meter is fine for proving dead in a diy/domestic situation, a lot of people just assume its dead as its switched off, as evidenced by some of the earlier replies in this thread.

For me to work on any low voltage electrical installation (which is classed as anything sub 1000v) in my current employment, I have to prove dead, which involves a voltage tester and a proving unit, a multi meter is not allowed to be used for the purpose of proving dead.

Unless I am fault finding, then paperwork has to be filled in so that I can carry out live working with equipment energised, so no need to prove dead using a voltage tester and proving unit.


These days I use my voltage tester more than my fluke multi meter when carrying out fault finding as its a good bit of kit.

As rugged Scotty mentioned a lot of companies have specific electrical rules and legislation that they must follow and that includes what equipment can be used,

I'm guessing he's getting at GS38 with tips needing to be shrouded/finger guards and 4mm tips, also all test leads must be fused.

[jason61c]

ruggedscotty said:

multimeter used for faultfinding on electronics.

Power wiring... use

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/proving-units/23806...

Prove tester - check for voltage on the point to be tested and then prove again.

Always.

LVAP Low voltage Appointed Person
HVAP High voltage Appointed Person

As Ill say multimeters especially those junk specials should not be used to prove or confirm dead.

so without backtracking, you get that a multimeter can be used at domestic voltage?

[ruggedscotty]

sri16v said:

Griffith4ever said:

I get the same feeling. :-). They are designed exactly for dealing with high voltage AC. They are literally made for the job.

Hes right though in what he's saying, but a multi meter is fine for proving dead in a diy/domestic situation, a lot of people just assume its dead as its switched off, as evidenced by some of the earlier replies in this thread.

For me to work on any low voltage electrical installation (which is classed as anything sub 1000v) in my current employment, I have to prove dead, which involves a voltage tester and a proving unit, a multi meter is not allowed to be used for the purpose of proving dead.

Unless I am fault finding, then paperwork has to be filled in so that I can carry out live working with equipment energised, so no need to prove dead using a voltage tester and proving unit.


These days I use my voltage tester more than my fluke multi meter when carrying out fault finding as its a good bit of kit.

As rugged Scotty mentioned a lot of companies have specific electrical rules and legislation that they must follow and that includes what equipment can be used,

I'm guessing he's getting at GS38 with tips needing to be shrouded/finger guards and 4mm tips, also all test leads must be fused.

cheers. anyways we can fall back on the old its not work, its diy etc... And also laws of averages, that once in a blue moon event the ordinary man encounters differs to doing it day in day out earning a crust. in a work environment where there are lots of things going on. production wanting a machine back up. an over zealous noting a 'tripped' breaker and resetting it not knowing the maintenance guy is working on a cracked socket...

were meant to be responsible for our own safety. and we do jobs following the guidelines developed over years of experience and understanding. Its just how we try to keep things going. we all want to be heading home after shift.

those laws of averages.... actually the events are not as rare as one would like. Ive been sparking for best part of 35 years now, and ive seen my fair share of incidents and a few near misses.

A multimeter has more points of failure, and its really not designed to be used as a means to check a point is dead. if its all you have then its better than nothing. however with a house, it would be easy to turn off the power at the main switch, and you would know that the power is off. These days we have solar that provides power. If that was faulty even with the power off you could have a lethal voltage

So reality is, somewhere inbetween. not requiring the full on permits to work, signature and counter signatures along with all that rigmarole, but then in the same vein having more than just your trusty neon screwdriver... or a wet finger...

[Griffith4ever]

Indeed. Reality at home = use a multi meter

Reality at work =

"Power wiring... use
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/proving-units/23806...
Prove tester - check for voltage on the point to be tested and then prove again.
Always.
LVAP Low voltage Appointed Person
HVAP High voltage Appointed Person
As Ill say multimeters especially those junk specials should not be used to prove or confirm dead."



BIg difference between home and work. For starters I don't put on a high vist jacket and sign a book if I cut my finger at home. The rest follows.