Smart meters - good or bad.
Discussion
With Octopus, it means the "agile" tariff is an option - if we want it (this would give different prices at different times of day)
Decided that tariff isn't competitive at the moment - but point being that there are actually some more tariff options you can choose from once on a smart meter.
Decided that tariff isn't competitive at the moment - but point being that there are actually some more tariff options you can choose from once on a smart meter.
crankedup5 said:
We like to give our self read gas and leccy readings every month to our energy provider. Our problem is the location of the meters which make it a difficult physical job to get in to read the meters, a new kitchen was built around the meters.
Would it be a wise thing to now request a smart meter or are these things still considered to be a pain? Thanks
Wading in a bit late in the discussion, but "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies. I'd advise against smart meters and to stick with your traditional ones. Ignore the pestering by the utilities companies for booking a time and date to have a smart meter fitted. Would it be a wise thing to now request a smart meter or are these things still considered to be a pain? Thanks
The last house I lived in did not have smart meters for either electricity or gas.
It had the traditional rotating disc meters.
I've since moved into a property with external digital smart meters for both, and I would switch back to the traditional meters if I could. I refused and ignored the requests and pestering to switch to a smart meter at my last place. Someone does need to pay for it ultimately, regardless of claims that it won't cost anything.
1. I've found that despite having smart meters at my current property, I still need to submit periodic meter readings in order to keep my estimates accurate, just like I did with the traditional meters.
I had an npower online account previously, and voluntarily submitting readings (partly due to the ease of having them indoors and not outside in meter cabinets) resulted in more accurate billing and a fair few refunds due to being in credit a lot of the time. I always understood that smart meters were supposed to do away with the need to take periodic readings, so that's obviously a myth.
2. Traditional meters are easier to read and the information is always on display in a legible manner. It's so simple: you look at your meter and there are the numbers. You've the first handful of digits and then the red 'end' digits. You always know and are certain of what the reading is. With a smart meter, how to get the information up on display is a faff and varies on model numbers etc: you need to press a bunch of buttons and navigate your way to the reading and even then it's not exactly clear whether you are looking at that or at some other reading.
I have neither the time nor the interest to learn the ins and outs of a smart meter and how to 'get the most out of one' and analyse all the data that can be displayed by one because an accurate bill will give you all of that anyway or a breakdown can be requested from the provider.
I think people (individuals and families alike) simply need to be careful and monitor electricity waste and the efficiency of their household. If you're still wasting energy then a smart meter is clearly futile in that regard.
Zumbruk said:
"good or bad"?
Neither. They're just pointless for the consumer.
Is it not useful to monitor consumption? I have resisted having one fitted so far but am now getting very regular requests for readings so making me consider accepting the offer. The ability to see my usage is the other pull. What are the downsides?Neither. They're just pointless for the consumer.
Shnozz said:
Zumbruk said:
"good or bad"?
Neither. They're just pointless for the consumer.
Is it not useful to monitor consumption? Neither. They're just pointless for the consumer.
The function of smart meters is to save the electricity companies money by sacking meter readers.
rodericb said:
There is probably a sequence of systems between your meter and your bill, all of which can be playing up and result in you getting estimated meter reads and thus estimated bills.
I don't buy it - it was so bad I thought somehow someone was leeching electricity from us, we are only Semi-detached so obviously only one side, but clearly wasn't himReading massively high and then as soon as I complained about it and asked for an engineer to come, the next day it was magically fixed, but of course we overpaid probably by approx £120 by my calculations, but "the meters are never wrong sir"
Zumbruk said:
Shnozz said:
Zumbruk said:
"good or bad"?
Neither. They're just pointless for the consumer.
Is it not useful to monitor consumption? Neither. They're just pointless for the consumer.
The function of smart meters is to save the electricity companies money by sacking meter readers.
The benefits far outweigh the negatives, that only a few seem to declare.
captain.scarlet said:
1. I've found that despite having smart meters at my current property, I still need to submit periodic meter readings in order to keep my estimates accurate, just like I did with the traditional meters.
2. Traditional meters are easier to read and the information is always on display in a legible manner. It's so simple: you look at your meter and there are the numbers. You've the first handful of digits and then the red 'end' digits. You always know and are certain of what the reading is..
Your experience is by no means typical, and I don't fully understand who is asking you to submit meter readings. If it's your energy company I would enquire as to why they need them, because the smart meter will send them actual readings within 7 days at most, and usually within 48 hours. I've never heard of an energy company asking for estimated readings for smart meter customers. 2. Traditional meters are easier to read and the information is always on display in a legible manner. It's so simple: you look at your meter and there are the numbers. You've the first handful of digits and then the red 'end' digits. You always know and are certain of what the reading is..
As for traditional meters being easy to read and understand, they're not, not at all. The disks rotate different ways and a huge amount of admin is caused because people can't read them, or read them as if they all rotate clockwise, whereas 2 of the 5 rotate anticlockwise. If the meter is read wrongly, even once, it can take many hours to rectify, especially if the customer has changed suppliers. For what it's worth between delivery and final settlement of the bill can take 3 YEARS! If everyone had a smart meter this would be reduced hugely, with associated cost savings which ultimately get passed to the end customer.
Zumbruk said:
How is that not possible with a "dumb" meter? Besides, evidence suggests that most people spend a few weeks rushing round switching off lights, standby devices and the like, discover they've saved 50p and stop bothering. The vast bulk of electricity is consumed by cooking and space heating. What are you going to do, eat salad in the dark and cold?
The function of smart meters is to save the electricity companies money by sacking meter readers.
It's just like the handy instantaneous mpg reading my car gives me (if I care to look at it, which I don't). It turns out, if I wang my foot to the floor, I use more petrol, so my mpg goes down, and it costs me more money !The function of smart meters is to save the electricity companies money by sacking meter readers.
I mean, I never knew that until I looked at the reading in the car.
Condi said:
alock said:
mike74 said:
Not good if you want to provide slightly exaggerated readings prior to price hikes.
Not even half way through my pre-paid units from March 
Seriously, I've been in credit with energy companies for 25 years. I've regularly asked for credit to be returned. Normally they just say no because their computer says I'll use more next winter. Sometimes after lots of arguing I'll get some back.
I'm returning the favour. Banking some of their energy units instead.
I had a very long debate with a phone caller from Shell Energy who wanted me to have smart meters fitted. Shell Energy took over from pure Planet as my supplier when Pure stopped trading. It took them many months to transfer my account from Pure. They still managed to make a mess of it and I have no confidence that they have the capability to get my bills correct anytime soon. All this despite me providing exact readings to them on the correct day every month. As of now they still have not got their app working so I have to use their webpage to see my bills and submit readings.
The girl on the phone was very persistent, much more so than any previous callers from other suppliers.
Having smart meters would be of great benefit to me, she said, enabling me to save money on my bills. This of course is a falsehood and not a great starter to a pitch to accept these meters.
It would save me having to submit monthly readings, she said. I told her this was no inconvenience as I track my own usage anyway.
She went on to say I could benefit from cheaper tariffs. There are currently no cheaper tariffs available from Shell Energy.
I said I was very concerned that I would be giving up control of my supply by allowing them to fit a meter they can remotely control.
She didn't seem to understand that one and went on to say I would need new meters anyway when the batteries on my current meters came to the end of their life.
I have meters which are not smart and have no batteries.
I remain unconvinced there is any current benefit to me having smart meters fitted so until there is I remain in the don't fix it if it aint broke camp.
The girl on the phone was very persistent, much more so than any previous callers from other suppliers.
Having smart meters would be of great benefit to me, she said, enabling me to save money on my bills. This of course is a falsehood and not a great starter to a pitch to accept these meters.
It would save me having to submit monthly readings, she said. I told her this was no inconvenience as I track my own usage anyway.
She went on to say I could benefit from cheaper tariffs. There are currently no cheaper tariffs available from Shell Energy.
I said I was very concerned that I would be giving up control of my supply by allowing them to fit a meter they can remotely control.
She didn't seem to understand that one and went on to say I would need new meters anyway when the batteries on my current meters came to the end of their life.
I have meters which are not smart and have no batteries.
I remain unconvinced there is any current benefit to me having smart meters fitted so until there is I remain in the don't fix it if it aint broke camp.
It sounds like some of you are with British Gas, ramming meters down your throat. That put me off too.
Also sounds like in some cases you've also ended up with a s
t supplier too, maybe BG also.
FWIW, I got bumped from Peoples Energy to British Gas (who I had only recently left). BG mad a hash of everything, as always, so I switched to Octopus.
"Stuck" on their standard variable tariff (nothing comes up cheaper, as you'd expect at the moment), but in terms of their reliability and service, I'm very happy. Huge leap ahead from BG.
Anyway, completely get that smart meters are not for everyone, but I have found being able to pinpoint consumption on a half hour basis has helped me cut costs a bit more, plus the little meter thing is useful to keep track of any electricity vampires in the house too.
In addition to the rest of the stuff we've done with hive and so forth, I've also recomissioned 4 of the chimneys in our house. If I can get enough dry wood, that'll help too.
Also sounds like in some cases you've also ended up with a s
t supplier too, maybe BG also.FWIW, I got bumped from Peoples Energy to British Gas (who I had only recently left). BG mad a hash of everything, as always, so I switched to Octopus.
"Stuck" on their standard variable tariff (nothing comes up cheaper, as you'd expect at the moment), but in terms of their reliability and service, I'm very happy. Huge leap ahead from BG.
Anyway, completely get that smart meters are not for everyone, but I have found being able to pinpoint consumption on a half hour basis has helped me cut costs a bit more, plus the little meter thing is useful to keep track of any electricity vampires in the house too.
In addition to the rest of the stuff we've done with hive and so forth, I've also recomissioned 4 of the chimneys in our house. If I can get enough dry wood, that'll help too.
crankedup5 said:
Thanks for the discussion, I’m now undecided as to wether to apply for a smart meter or not tbh.
I expect once we can’t crawl underneath our kitchen worktop to read the meter it will prompt the inevitable
If it's in that bad a place for access how would they physically change them ?I expect once we can’t crawl underneath our kitchen worktop to read the meter it will prompt the inevitable
x type said:
crankedup5 said:
Thanks for the discussion, I’m now undecided as to wether to apply for a smart meter or not tbh.
I expect once we can’t crawl underneath our kitchen worktop to read the meter it will prompt the inevitable
If it's in that bad a place for access how would they physically change them ?I expect once we can’t crawl underneath our kitchen worktop to read the meter it will prompt the inevitable
captain.scarlet said:
1. I've found that despite having smart meters at my current property, I still need to submit periodic meter readings in order to keep my estimates accurate, just like I did with the traditional meters.
You should probably try picking an even half competent provider then. My meter-boxes haven't been opened since the meters were installed before the pandemic. Are you sure your meter isn't one of the daft SMETS1 ones which can't necessarily be transferred between providers and hence is running entirely in dumb mode with your current company?
Edited by kambites on Saturday 28th May 08:21
CarCrazyDad said:
rodericb said:
There is probably a sequence of systems between your meter and your bill, all of which can be playing up and result in you getting estimated meter reads and thus estimated bills.
I don't buy it - it was so bad I thought somehow someone was leeching electricity from us, we are only Semi-detached so obviously only one side, but clearly wasn't himReading massively high and then as soon as I complained about it and asked for an engineer to come, the next day it was magically fixed, but of course we overpaid probably by approx 120 by my calculations, but "the meters are never wrong sir"
As the people designing and implementing the systems thought they were building perfection they never contemplated customers going for multiple billing periods and having estimated reads generated. Then this "charge more than the last bill so we're covered" kicks in. If someone bought this up the response may be they'll fix it in support or that the customer will notice something funny with their bill and contact them so lets not jeopardize our go-live. But the customers don't know the vagaries of utilities billing systems and that they often stuff-up so they keep paying the bills.
It's usually the systems between your meter and your invoice failing. Yes, the meters themselves can fail but if you could see what's between that meter and your invoice at some places you'd be amazed.
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