Drayton Wiser - Hints and Tips Thread
Discussion
7 days isn't a particularly long time to ascertain how effective they are at reducing bills, but that's going to take a season or two at least so probably worth sticking at.
We do have a Wiser with traditional dumb TRVs, purely for our second home so we can control the heating while we're not there (I wish the humidity reading was available in the app, not just on the room thermostat in the house...) but have Evohome where we live and have 5 years' experience with their smart TRVs now. I would say it has taken until this year to really see a difference in the energy use for heating because I turned everything down 3C compared to previous years. But the house doesn't particularly feel colder to be in, so I've learnt something.
Wiser with dumb thermostats seems to be either colder than I'd expect or get too hot, so I do think the TRVs will be worthwhile for you.
We do have a Wiser with traditional dumb TRVs, purely for our second home so we can control the heating while we're not there (I wish the humidity reading was available in the app, not just on the room thermostat in the house...) but have Evohome where we live and have 5 years' experience with their smart TRVs now. I would say it has taken until this year to really see a difference in the energy use for heating because I turned everything down 3C compared to previous years. But the house doesn't particularly feel colder to be in, so I've learnt something.
Wiser with dumb thermostats seems to be either colder than I'd expect or get too hot, so I do think the TRVs will be worthwhile for you.
We only have manaul (high quality, recently replaced) TRVs throughout the house so can't comment on the powered ones.
We do howetuse the 'comfort' mode and find it works well for us. Large older house, so outside temp and current room temp can have a noticeable effect on how long it takes to raise to room to the set temp.
We also use the eco mode to more aggressively avoid overshoot.
Boiler floor temp is set to 55deg.
We do howetuse the 'comfort' mode and find it works well for us. Large older house, so outside temp and current room temp can have a noticeable effect on how long it takes to raise to room to the set temp.
We also use the eco mode to more aggressively avoid overshoot.
Boiler floor temp is set to 55deg.
London1986 said:
dhutch said:
It's definitely a thing that if you reduce the number of heated rooms too much, you end up effectively heating the whole house from half the number of rads. In effect just knee caping yourself in emitter size, which is exactly what you don't want for efficient heating and low return temperatures.
Obviously the exact details depend on house layout, usage, how well insulated external walls are Vs internal walls. Airtightness, etc.
Exactly this! Obviously the exact details depend on house layout, usage, how well insulated external walls are Vs internal walls. Airtightness, etc.
One example of this was an idea to have the kitchen very low during the evening and night. Because why does the kitchen need to be heated at night right? The downside of this however was the bedroom above was a lot colder as it didn't benefit from the rising heat it would have normally got from the kitchen. So in this instance, like you say, the heat in the kitchen was reduced too much. However if its set back just a bit, then the bedroom above wouldn't have to work as hard to offset the cold room below.
The advantage for us however is to have multiple set points, essentially a desired temp and a minimum temp.
So our "thermostat" temperature is set to 20°, we'd find however that during the day while working from home it would (in winter) get down sometimes as low as 15° in the afternoon (at the thermostat) which was just too cold. Historically we'd then put the heating on for a boost but if we didn't or it was really cold then it would then struggle to get up to temp quickly enough later. Now we've got it set with a minimum of 18 during the day (when we're in) and then 15 overnight. It's noticeably more pleasant. I'm reasonably sure not actually saving much, if anything more expensive but from a comfort perspective it's *much* nicer.
Jobbo said:
7 days isn't a particularly long time to ascertain how effective they are at reducing bills, but that's going to take a season or two at least so probably worth sticking at.
Oh absolutely. This is just my initial observations. I'm still tinkering to get the optimum setup in terms of comfort vs gas usage, I expect that would carry on for many more weeks, or even seasons like you say. Jobbo said:
7
Wiser with dumb thermostats seems to be either colder than I'd expect or get too hot, so I do think the TRVs will be worthwhile for you.
Just curios, when you did this, were your dumb TRVs configured properly? E..g set to the right settings for that room? I had a few rads in the hallways, bathrooms on the dumb TRVs, they're currently set to around 2-3 and they seem to be doing fine so far, not too hot or coldWiser with dumb thermostats seems to be either colder than I'd expect or get too hot, so I do think the TRVs will be worthwhile for you.
dhutch said:
We only have manaul (high quality, recently replaced) TRVs throughout the house so can't comment on the powered ones.
We do howetuse the 'comfort' mode and find it works well for us. Large older house, so outside temp and current room temp can have a noticeable effect on how long it takes to raise to room to the set temp.
We also use the eco mode to more aggressively avoid overshoot.
Boiler floor temp is set to 55deg.
So you have the Wiser system but no smart TRVs? What is the reason you don't have any smart TRVs out of interest? Just no need for them?We do howetuse the 'comfort' mode and find it works well for us. Large older house, so outside temp and current room temp can have a noticeable effect on how long it takes to raise to room to the set temp.
We also use the eco mode to more aggressively avoid overshoot.
Boiler floor temp is set to 55deg.
Fastdruid said:
It's very noticeable for us the difference between heating a room with the door shut and closed, the lounge for example is noticeably warmer of a morning because the doors have been shut overnight than it is later (when some of that that heat is heating the hallway etc). We've only got two of the iTRV's at the moment but I can see a similar situation arising with more where "waste" heat from one room heats others.
Very true. This is something I do too and definitely makes a difference. Fastdruid said:
I'm reasonably sure not actually saving much, if anything more expensive but from a comfort perspective it's *much* nicer.
This is it, and this is what I want to compare. One definite benefit of the smart valves is the comfort factor. It's just much more easier to get comfortable temps in the rooms you are in compared to traditional heating. It's fine if the house is empty during the day as you simply have the heating on in the mornings and evenings, however if the house is occupied all day, then you either need to choose between having colder periods during the day or having it on all day but risk high gas bills. Smart valves do give you that benefit.
From my insights so far, my gas usage has definitely reduced since installing the smart valves for the equivalent level of comfort, but there are few variables so do really need to conduct a like for like test where I set the same set temps, same amount of comfort, carry out test in similar external temperatures, etc
London1986 said:
B'stard Child said:
For this specific issue I quickly found that not heating rooms put a much greater demand on the CH system when the rooms were required to be heated
My example - Dining Room and Living Room are not used AM but used PM
Not heating AM meant that the warm up time PM was much longer than I would like so ended up increasing the heating time to compensate - what I did was effectively set the AM temps to a set back so they did get a little heat up to 3-4 deg less than target
This meant that the PM warm up was much faster and didn't require extended heating periods
Yes exactly this. Do you use comfort mode or are you manually setting your target temps for the PM?My example - Dining Room and Living Room are not used AM but used PM
Not heating AM meant that the warm up time PM was much longer than I would like so ended up increasing the heating time to compensate - what I did was effectively set the AM temps to a set back so they did get a little heat up to 3-4 deg less than target
This meant that the PM warm up was much faster and didn't require extended heating periods
London1986 said:
B'stard Child said:
I considered this but ruled it out on the basis that Mrs BC would walk into a room controlled by a dumb TRV - determine that the room was too cold (even if the heating had just come on) and would wind the f
ker up to max and then leave the room........ I think I'm not alone in being burdened with a partner than has no understanding of a heating system and the control element of a TRV........
Ha yes this would throw your whole experiment out the window. You are definitely not alone there mate, however my mrs is under strict instruction not to touch the valves or the wiser room stat. Any changes in temp she needs to come to me so I can adjust the schedule. I’m trying to get to a point where I can set and forget the temp. Once I get something consistent, then I’ll try experimenting with smart valves vs dumbker up to max and then leave the room........ I think I'm not alone in being burdened with a partner than has no understanding of a heating system and the control element of a TRV........
They really can be a different breed when it comes to understanding and expectations
Yesterday Mrs BC moaned the water in the shower was too hot - I got in there after and the temp control was wound round pass the safety stop and at the max - I said well what do you expect if you turn it up to max - she said I tried it everywhere - as usual she has an instant expectation of change
London1986 said:
So you have the Wiser system but no smart TRVs? What is the reason you don't have any smart TRVs out of interest? Just no need for them?
Exactly that. When we had the CH replumbed and all the valves replaced it wasn't much more to get the heads too, so we had them already. Danfoss, a mix of new RTW and RAS-C.
Although the house has solid external walls etc and we only use half the bedrooms it's still broadly the case that you want as much radiator areas you can have one at once, and with two dogs and general life, a lot of the doors are left open anyway.
We also have two radiators each in the two min living rooms, and one of the bedroom we might want to turn off, so would need need a lot of valves which cost real money.
So mainly it's just balanced on the lockshields and leave it to the whole house thermostat in the living room, most of the manaual TRVs are basically full open. If we want to reduce heating we close the door to the kitchen which is under radiatored and below the bathrooms, but that makes the kitchen too cold if it's very cold out or windy.
I back the unused bedrooms down a bit usually, but currently all the doors are off as we've had the hall carpet redone!
It's also obviously a lot simpler, and time is money too. I don't enjoy programming what we have!
London1986 said:
Jobbo said:
Wiser with dumb thermostats seems to be either colder than I'd expect or get too hot, so I do think the TRVs will be worthwhile for you.
Just curios, when you did this, were your dumb TRVs configured properly? E..g set to the right settings for that room? I had a few rads in the hallways, bathrooms on the dumb TRVs, they're currently set to around 2-3 and they seem to be doing fine so far, not too hot or colddhutch said:
Exactly that.
When we had the CH replumbed and all the valves replaced it wasn't much more to get the heads too, so we had them already. Danfoss, a mix of new RTW and RAS-C.
Although the house has solid external walls etc and we only use half the bedrooms it's still broadly the case that you want as much radiator areas you can have one at once, and with two dogs and general life, a lot of the doors are left open anyway.
We also have two radiators each in the two min living rooms, and one of the bedroom we might want to turn off, so would need need a lot of valves which cost real money.
So mainly it's just balanced on the lockshields and leave it to the whole house thermostat in the living room, most of the manaual TRVs are basically full open. If we want to reduce heating we close the door to the kitchen which is under radiatored and below the bathrooms, but that makes the kitchen too cold if it's very cold out or windy.
I back the unused bedrooms down a bit usually, but currently all the doors are off as we've had the hall carpet redone!
It's also obviously a lot simpler, and time is money too. I don't enjoy programming what we have!
Interesting, thanks for sharing. When we had the CH replumbed and all the valves replaced it wasn't much more to get the heads too, so we had them already. Danfoss, a mix of new RTW and RAS-C.
Although the house has solid external walls etc and we only use half the bedrooms it's still broadly the case that you want as much radiator areas you can have one at once, and with two dogs and general life, a lot of the doors are left open anyway.
We also have two radiators each in the two min living rooms, and one of the bedroom we might want to turn off, so would need need a lot of valves which cost real money.
So mainly it's just balanced on the lockshields and leave it to the whole house thermostat in the living room, most of the manaual TRVs are basically full open. If we want to reduce heating we close the door to the kitchen which is under radiatored and below the bathrooms, but that makes the kitchen too cold if it's very cold out or windy.
I back the unused bedrooms down a bit usually, but currently all the doors are off as we've had the hall carpet redone!
It's also obviously a lot simpler, and time is money too. I don't enjoy programming what we have!
I agree with you regarding the valves costing extra money, the additional complexities they bring, and I haven't yet experienced the fun with batteries either! Once I've got a a steady set up going with my smart TRVs, I definitely will swap them out for regular ones just to see how much better off I am, if at all
Jobbo said:
Yes, the dumb TRVs were set as before. But I’ve never found them to be all that good at maintaining a room temperature in any house. Good at reducing energy usage, yes.
I believe their purpose is not really to maintain the room temp but to simply set the max temp that radiator can reach when heating is called for via the main room thermostat. Smart TRVs act as room stats, dumb ones don't.
London1986 said:
I agree with you regarding the valves costing extra money, the additional complexities they bring, and I haven't yet experienced the fun with batteries either! Once I've got a a steady set up going with my smart TRVs, I definitely will swap them out for regular ones just to see how much better off I am, if at all
Ours seem to have lost 10% battery per month, so assuming that keeps up at that rate then new batteries every ~9-10 months would appear on the cards. Have had Wiser since October last year.
Kit 1 with 5 TRVs.
Have tweaked and it works pretty well.
Mrs Imck works from home but does periodic site visits. No fixed days.
Want to set something up so the house heats in the morning but then runs cooler during the day and heats again for coming home.
Do use the away mode but usually as we leave and her office has already heated. And then forget and come home to a cold house.
I created a moment where the office was not enabled but is still coming on.
Kit 1 with 5 TRVs.
Have tweaked and it works pretty well.
Mrs Imck works from home but does periodic site visits. No fixed days.
Want to set something up so the house heats in the morning but then runs cooler during the day and heats again for coming home.
Do use the away mode but usually as we leave and her office has already heated. And then forget and come home to a cold house.
I created a moment where the office was not enabled but is still coming on.
It's definitely a shame you can't set the away mode for a given time, so it reverts back to normal before you get home.
Our house takes about four five hours to drag itself from 15 upto 19 if it's winter and it's been cold half a week. Plus if the hot water has gone cold that can take an hour before it even starts on heating the house. I've only forgot once!
Our house takes about four five hours to drag itself from 15 upto 19 if it's winter and it's been cold half a week. Plus if the hot water has gone cold that can take an hour before it even starts on heating the house. I've only forgot once!
dhutch said:
It's definitely a shame you can't set the away mode for a given time, so it reverts back to normal before you get home.
Our house takes about four five hours to drag itself from 15 upto 19 if it's winter and it's been cold half a week. Plus if the hot water has gone cold that can take an hour before it even starts on heating the house. I've only forgot once!
Have been playing with Alexa after adding the Wiser heat skill.Our house takes about four five hours to drag itself from 15 upto 19 if it's winter and it's been cold half a week. Plus if the hot water has gone cold that can take an hour before it even starts on heating the house. I've only forgot once!
It is possible to schedule away mode 'Disable away mode at 4pm' 'Enable away mode in one hour', etc.
Had another try with moments
Set a moment to lower the office temp. All good until a scheduled temp change.
I might need to deselect follow schedule on the office TRV the evening before Mrs Imcks site visits.
Does anyone know if having the Wiser system removes the ability to control the heating flow temperature for your boiler?
I've turned my boiler flow temp to zero just to test it, and the radiators are working normally, and according to the boiler manual this should turn the heating off, so not sure if this is because of the wiser system or or if I have a faulty boiler.
I've turned my boiler flow temp to zero just to test it, and the radiators are working normally, and according to the boiler manual this should turn the heating off, so not sure if this is because of the wiser system or or if I have a faulty boiler.
London1986 said:
Does anyone know if having the Wiser system removes the ability to control the heating flow temperature for your boiler?
I've turned my boiler flow temp to zero just to test it, and the radiators are working normally, and according to the boiler manual this should turn the heating off, so not sure if this is because of the wiser system or or if I have a faulty boiler.
I'm not sure what you meanI've turned my boiler flow temp to zero just to test it, and the radiators are working normally, and according to the boiler manual this should turn the heating off, so not sure if this is because of the wiser system or or if I have a faulty boiler.
If you mean you've turned the boiler target temp down to the point at which it switches off the boiler - wiser won't know this - it will open rads and turn on the circulation pump and just pump cold water round the system
Only if your system boiler has control of the pump (not normal in most systems will it result in all the TRV's opening but no circulation pump on)
B'stard Child said:
If you mean you've turned the boiler target temp down to the point at which it switches off the boiler - wiser won't know this - it will open rads and turn on the circulation pump and just pump cold water round the system
Yes that's exactly what I mean and what I've done. Here is a pic of my current boiler controls.. notice the heating dial is set to zero. 
However the rads are still getting hot which leads me to believe it's likely a faulty dial.
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