Drayton Wiser - Hints and Tips Thread

[B'stard Child]

alangla said:

Mine has started doing this, either the valves are sticking partially open or Wiser isn’t closing them properly, but the effect is that my study, which is only meant to be heated during the day, has a radiator that’s warm (not hot) whenever the system is on and the Insights graph shows it as hotter in there at night than during the day! Tried recalibrating the TRV heads, also tried banging the TRV bodies in case they are actually stuck, but it only seems to clear it for a day or so. Wondering if maybe there’s been a firmware upgrade or something that’s caused this?

My money is on a sticking TRV

[B'stard Child]

BlindedByTheLights said:

I’ve had a strange one with a single TRV, a month or so ago I spent a little more and bought lithium AA’s as normal ones didn’t seem to last too long. All TRV’s are still showing full battery, except for one which completely drained the lithium AA’s to dead. Any ideas? This room doesn’t see anymore TRV action that the others.

Is that rad the furthest from the hub or has more walls to get thro?

I could be really sad here but I have a table of my battery life for all my TRV's and that tells me distance/walls have an impact

[B'stard Child]

I'll be sad

Room	Stat/TRV	Days	Distance
Lounge	TRV	181	3 walls same floor furthest from the hub
Dining	TRV	313	1 wall same floor
Kitchen	TRV	395	same room as hub
Hallway	TRV	317	1 wall same floor
Front Hall	TRV	253	2 walls same floor furthest from hub
Bedroom 1	TRV	250	2 walls and ceiling furthest from the hub
Bedroom 2	TRV	364	Above the hub just ceiling
Bedroom 3	TRV	313	1 wall and ceiling close to the hub
Study	TRV	253	2 walls and ceiling furthest from hub
Ensuite	TRV	300	2 walls and a ceiling
Bathroom	TRV	313	2 walls and a ceiling

Just for sts and giggles

All the walls are thermalite/Concrete skimed and plastered (not stud work and plasterboard) wifi is equally compromised but doesn't need AA batteries

[B'stard Child]

BlindedByTheLights said:

Interesting thanks, but that doesn’t seem to correlate to this issue. It’s through two walls on the same level, but others would have to pass through more walls and haven’t drained like this one.

It amused me that battery life in my house was so clear cut so I decided to share

Suggestion - Swap the TRV with one that doesn't kill it's batteries and see if the problem stays with location or TRV

[B'stard Child]

BlindedByTheLights said:

B'stard Child said:

BlindedByTheLights said:

Interesting thanks, but that doesn’t seem to correlate to this issue. It’s through two walls on the same level, but others would have to pass through more walls and haven’t drained like this one.

It amused me that battery life in my house was so clear cut so I decided to share

Suggestion - Swap the TRV with one that doesn't kill it's batteries and see if the problem stays with location or TRV

It’s a great analysis you’ve done! Thanks I’ll give it a go and see what happens. System is working well with this cold snap at the moment

No problem at all

Mine came on at 5 am this morning (1 hr and 20 mins earlier than the normal start point) because one radiator reached the 10 deg min set point. Because it was only one room the boiler quickly hit temp so a bit wasteful in terms of gas usage

[B'stard Child]

Regbuser said:

B'stard Child said:

I could be really sad here but I have a table of my battery life for all my TRV's and that tells me distance/walls have an impact

Suggest installing wiser power plugs at intermediate points, to act as mesh relays, may improve battery usage.

I have recently done that Wiser had a Black Friday sale and I picked up two for a decent price

[B'stard Child]

Regbuser said:

Fastdruid said:

Interestingly on the subject of batteries mine has just started reporting low battery on the one of the TRV's.... at 40% after 10 months. I'm not sure when to actually change though, 40% remaining feels a bit "early" but then I don't know at what percentage they'll stop working.

I only replace when stating critically low.

^ WHS - they start alerting way too early - one of mine took 2 months before it needed replacing (But it was the one in the same room as the hub)

[B'stard Child]

AW10 said:

B'stard Child said:

So now as a result of something I read on here and now can't find (so I can't credit the person who said it) I've removed one Smart TRV and replaced it with a dumb one - that TRV now has the same heating schedule time wise as all the other TRV's but has a target temp of 25 Deg C for all the scheduled heating periods.

Tried it tonight and I'm pretty sure it's working as intended - need to check for a longer period but now Wiser doesn't turn off the heating/Boiler if any of the rooms are coming up to temp because it still has a TRV calling for heat - this means my Living room which is a compromised layout of 1 rad at one end actually gets to temp)

I'm confused about the above. The dumb TRV can't call for heat, right? Is that as it's set so high that rad keeps dumping heat into its room whenever another other smart TRV or thermostat is calling for heat?

Rad with Smart TRV - Removed smart TRV - replaced with dumb TRV

Smart TRV is now in same room as dumb TRV so I can make sure the dumb TRV doesn't overheat the room (it's been a while since I used one and I forget what setting I need for 18 deg)

SMART trv set to 25 Deg C on same schedule as rest of TRV's - it's in same room and it will never get to that temp so now it's constantly calling for heat that it doesn't get and it's stops Wiser from turning my boiler off

AW10 said:

PS. Thanks for the post relating battery life to distance from the hub - useful stuff. Could you now please do a cost/benefit analysis on adding repeaters in strategic locations to increase battery life?

I could do that but I actually added them for other reasons - the repeater function was an added benefit which I am treating as a no cost solution

PS I used to frequently get dropped TRV signals in the rooms furthest from the hub - since repeaters have been installed I haven't had one drop out.

[B'stard Child]

Regbuser said:

On the CH thread, there's a lot of tweaking going on !

I've found that putting wiser into eco mode, and letting it do it's stuff, does bring the rooms up to temp with minimum overshoot and excessive boiler cycling.

I've found that the eco and comfort modes don't help at all but I'm still refining my boiler parameters to get the heating running efficiently and effectively

I will try the eco and comfort modes when I've got it running in normal mode

[B'stard Child]

London1986 said:

B'stard Child said:

Is that rad the furthest from the hub or has more walls to get thro?

I could be really sad here but I have a table of my battery life for all my TRV's and that tells me distance/walls have an impact

Thanks for resurrecting this thread again and sharing your experience so far, and especially for sharing your nerdy table I tend to go to spreadsheets for things like this too so appreciate the time and effort you've put in.

Thanks - I Think!!!

London1986 said:

I've just replaced my first set of batteries in one of my TRVs, all the other TRVs are fine, and interestingly this particular TRV is the furthest away from the hub which supports your theory.

The data supports the data IMO

London1986 said:

My experience so far has been pretty good, few teething issues but the support is pretty good.

I haven't has to use support - I have enough issues with my bloody boiler

London1986 said:

Like yourself, I stay well clear of eco and comfort modes, found them just too unreliable.

They are just another complication thrown into the mix which muddy the water and it's like the thames aleady

London1986 said:

I've actually reduced the amount of TRV's I started with in favour of dumb TRVs just because some rooms didn't need to be on a schedule and I found by heating rooms that weren't in use did help neighbouring rooms, or rooms above.

I'm leaning towards binning off the Wiser TRV's in the rooms with 3 external walls as they lose heat faster and trigger the CH

London1986 said:

I did have one room in particular that got very cold and as a result was always up to 4-5 degrees out from what the Wiser app temp was recording in the app. E.g. Wiser app was reporting 20 degrees but actual room could have been 16 degrees, so the TRV wouldn't call for heat as it believed the temp to be 20 degrees. Investing in another room stat for that room helped solve the problem by reporting more accurate temps in the app.

I really would like wiser more if you could have an offset to program in based on true temp and I'm in agreement putting a room stat in every room where wiser TRV's are in accurate is an expensive solution to a problem that could be solved with an offset adjustment

[B'stard Child]

London1986 said:

B'stard Child said:

I really would like wiser more if you could have an offset to program in based on true temp and I'm in agreement putting a room stat in every room where wiser TRV's are in accurate is an expensive solution to a problem that could be solved with an offset adjustment

Regarding the rooms that report inaccurate temps, do you find these are always consistently inaccurate? E.g. always 3 degrees out?

I used to wish for the same as you, an ability to offset the temp in the app in this one particular (poorly insulated) room. However then I found the inaccuracy wasn't always consistent. For example, when the outside temp was warmer, the app temp accurately matched the room temp, however the colder it got outside, the bigger the difference in actual room temp vs reported temp in the app. On very cold days last winter there was up to a 6 degrees discrepancy at one point which was just ridiculous. That's when I realised that the ability to offset the temp just wouldn't be useful.

After months of being annoyed at the accuracy, I bit the bullet and bought another room stat (second hand of eBay for half the price). I'm glad I did as the temp is always spot on now

Room factors influence the inaccuracy - example my study (OK 4th bedroom or box room) North facing 3 external walls - TRV over states the temp by 2 deg (compared to stand alone monitor) so losses are quite high in this room

I swapped a few TRV's around thinking that if some TRV's were over reading and some under reading I could balance it out by swapping them around - made no bloody difference

Downstairs toilet - narrow room small window on equally small external wall TRV understates the temp by 1 deg but the TRV is on a rad that is mounted on an internal wall - other side of the wall is a T22 rad which is way too big for the front hall but it wasn't that old and was relocated there rather than throw it away. Both areas are heated at the same time - my view is the front hall / toilet wall quickly soaks up the heat.............

So in summary whilst it would be nice to be able to "tweak the TRV" to show a true room temp I heat rooms to different temperatures anyway so I just compensate in the app with the room set points

I'd love a room stat in every room but that's an expensive solution to a problem that you can work around

JM2pW

[B'stard Child]

London1986 said:

n

B'stard Child said:

So in summary whilst it would be nice to be able to "tweak the TRV" to show a true room temp I heat rooms to different temperatures anyway so I just compensate in the app with the room set points.

I'd love a room stat in every room but that's an expensive solution to a problem that you can work around

Ok I see what you mean, it seems in your scenario the discrepancy is consistent. e.g. always 1-2 degrees out. In this scenario yes I agree with you, something you can work around.

However in my scenario above, where the discrepancy would always change depending on how cold the external weather was, the only workaround was to invest in a room stat. It was just too unreliable to work with. I even considered ripping out the wiser TRV and putting a dumb TRV in, at least it would be consistent!

I'm considering doing the same in a couple of areas where I don't need the control accuracy of the smart TRV's I just need for the CH to apply some heat to the area whenever the heating is running.

[B'stard Child]

Audis5b9 said:

Ive installed my wiser system today and have a couple of issues:

1. the override buttons on the hub (CH & HW) do not work
2. when the system is calling for heat, my boiler cycles on (1 min) and off (2 mins) constantly. It is set on the oil boiler, as that is what I have.

Any ideas how to resolve these?

What controls did you have before?

[B'stard Child]

Audis5b9 said:

B'stard Child said:

What controls did you have before?

Just one wireless Drayton thermostat, which has been taken out of the system (I think!)

No timer controls?

What have you installed - Wiser and a room stat or have you added smart TRV’s on rads?

[B'stard Child]

Audis5b9 said:

B'stard Child said:

Audis5b9 said:

B'stard Child said:

What controls did you have before?

Just one wireless Drayton thermostat, which has been taken out of the system (I think!)

No timer controls?

What have you installed - Wiser and a room stat or have you added smart TRV’s on rads?

Wiser hub, room stat and 8 smart TRVs on rads.

Just put the batteries back in the wireless thermostat and the override buttons now working. So clearly need to have another shot at removing that from the system.

Now testing the cycling issue, but suspect this is the issue causing the problem.

My FIL (Sparky) installed it, he wasn't entirely sure what he was doing with it, so will get him back to have another go at it. Any advice for identifying the wiring to remove / bypass from the system?

Where is the receiver for the wireless stat - I’d assume it was near the wiring centre?

Is the system S plan or Y plan (I’m assuming loft based CW store and gravity fed HW tank and CH header tank also in the loft?

[B'stard Child]

Audis5b9 said:

B'stard Child said:

Where is the receiver for the wireless stat - I’d assume it was near the wiring centre?

Is the system S plan or Y plan (I’m assuming loft based CW store and gravity fed HW tank and CH header tank also in the loft?

Not sure what system we are on. whats the difference?

"I’m assuming loft based CW store and gravity fed HW tank and CH header tank also in the loft?" - the hot water tank is on the landing, plus tanks in the loft

S Plan - two 2 port valves one for HW and one for CH

Y Plan - one 3 port valve that can do HW, HW and CH or CH only

[B'stard Child]

Audis5b9 said:

Audis5b9 said:

B'stard Child said:

What controls did you have before?

Just one wireless Drayton thermostat, which has been taken out of the system (I think!)

Old thermostat now properly removed from the system and it's all working well.

Very pleased with the system, simple to use and seems to be working ok for the past 24 hours.

Will keep an eye out for the smarts TRV's so I can put them on the remaining rads.

Depending on how you schedule your heating - on regular "timed cycles" or "24/7 with set backs day and night"

If the first then more TRV's would help but if the latter you might want to think about if you really need more "Smart" TRV's

I've taken 1 Smart TRV out of the system - it still reports temp of the room but no longer controls the room temp and I'm probably going to take out a few more if I go over to 24/7 with setbacks

[B'stard Child]

V8covin said:

My room stat has decided to play silly buggers today.
The heating is set to come on at 18 degrees.
I'm thinking it feels cold in here,look at the app and it's showing 20.5 degrees.
So I get a regular thermometer and put it next to the Wiser room stat, it's showing 15.5 degrees .No wonder I feel cold .
Batteries are good, tried taking them out and refitting but makes no difference.
Is it kaput ?

How close to the heat source in the room is the room stat?

[B'stard Child]

V8covin said:

B'stard Child said:

How close to the heat source in the room is the room stat?

As close as it was when it was installed in 2017.....not close at all
Was working perfectly up until today

So the roomstat is 6 years old - that's a bit poor if it's died..........

I think I'd have a call with Wiser support - they can see far more data than we see in the app they maybe able to "give the hamster inside it a kick"

[B'stard Child]

BigBen said:

Is there a way to remotely force valves to do a re-calibration? Would be a bit handier than going round and removing/replacing the batteries.

Yes

Its on the Wiser site somewhere

https://wiser.draytoncontrols.co.uk/

Or here

Edited by B'stard Child on Sunday 31st December 14:36