Fruit and veg growers of 2023
Discussion
UTH said:
HAHA, ok I'm sold, I'll get back into it.
And yeah, I'll have a look for some I actually want/would work best rather than those packs.
Indeed, last year was better, I actually ate some toms vs year before with blight ruining all 6 plants. Definitely room for improvement on the side shoots, although I did think I was checking fairly often as I definitely nipped out a lot of these shoots. I think this year I'll put one plant in the wheelie thing my mum bought, and maybe two plants back in my pop up green house thingy.
A tomato plant which we grow up some string or tied to canes is called a vine or 'indeterminate' tomato. (determinate is a bush type) This means that given constant warmth, sun, water and no interference from us it'll carry on growing like Jacks beanstalk. But we amateurs and the weather control it to suit our needs. As pointed out earlier, if we question what a plant wants to do (rather than what we want it to do) it helps us understand them better. And yeah, I'll have a look for some I actually want/would work best rather than those packs.
Indeed, last year was better, I actually ate some toms vs year before with blight ruining all 6 plants. Definitely room for improvement on the side shoots, although I did think I was checking fairly often as I definitely nipped out a lot of these shoots. I think this year I'll put one plant in the wheelie thing my mum bought, and maybe two plants back in my pop up green house thingy.
A determinate tomato does not want to grow upwards, we have to make it. What it wants is to snake across the ground for as far as possible, this means it spreads its fruit and therefore seeds far and wide which is it's sole purpose in life (to reproduce). If you did let it do that (which you can) it would throw out roots all the way up the stem too so it can take up more water and nutrients as it gets longer.
XCP said:
Well bought my seed potatoes which are now chitting in the green house. Pentland Javelin if anyone is interested. Actually looking forward to being able to do some digging ( never thought I'd say that!)
I've not tried them, what are they like? I was thinking of doing Charlotte again although they were a disaster last year. I've tried overwintering before, starting hardy veg off in late autumn, but found that the spring-sown stuff tends to catch up anyway so I'm not bothering this year. Probably just as well as we've had a fair bit of snow and lots of very cold periods over this winter, including to minus 10.
I'll do my usual, but what will be new this year are broad beans, which I haven't grown since I left UK. I got some seeds from Portugal and some from UK so it'll be interesting to see how they compare.
I'll do my usual, but what will be new this year are broad beans, which I haven't grown since I left UK. I got some seeds from Portugal and some from UK so it'll be interesting to see how they compare.
Sticks. said:
XCP said:
Well bought my seed potatoes which are now chitting in the green house. Pentland Javelin if anyone is interested. Actually looking forward to being able to do some digging ( never thought I'd say that!)
I've not tried them, what are they like? I was thinking of doing Charlotte again although they were a disaster last year. XCP said:
I have no idea! I am returning to gardening after a lengthy absence and saw these at B and Q. It's all a learning curve for me! First earlies apparently.
Unless you're a massive potato fiend or are really poor, the only potatoes worth growing yourself I reckon are first earlies. we will have a try again this year. Neither my wife nor i are that well educated in the gardening world, but enjoy spending time in our allotment with our daughter.
Full disclosure, we are now in rural Tuscany, and it's common for the village houses to have their own orto (allotment) on the edge of the village, each house having it's own plots. Our house is no exception, and overlooks all of the others from the village too. We have a strict pop it in the ground and it might grow policy, which, despite the dry and the heat of last year served us well.
We managed tomatoes, leeks, potatoes, celery, peppers, butternut squash, courgettes, cavolo nero, cabbages, parsnips, radish, and rocket. with melon, raspberries, and strawberries doing us for fruit. our flops were peas, beans, sweetcorn and pak choi. I think it was simply too hot and dry. They got started, then died just as they should have been producing. our other flop was wine. we have around 100 vines, and the grapes this year were super, however, we did something wrong, and have spoiled around 75 litres of wine. thats our second successive year of failed wine, so next year we will ask a local to help. i think air has found its way into the storage container, or in filtering we have reactivated some yeast and its gone bad (unlikely) so, a more controlled approach will be employed next year.
Full disclosure, we are now in rural Tuscany, and it's common for the village houses to have their own orto (allotment) on the edge of the village, each house having it's own plots. Our house is no exception, and overlooks all of the others from the village too. We have a strict pop it in the ground and it might grow policy, which, despite the dry and the heat of last year served us well.
We managed tomatoes, leeks, potatoes, celery, peppers, butternut squash, courgettes, cavolo nero, cabbages, parsnips, radish, and rocket. with melon, raspberries, and strawberries doing us for fruit. our flops were peas, beans, sweetcorn and pak choi. I think it was simply too hot and dry. They got started, then died just as they should have been producing. our other flop was wine. we have around 100 vines, and the grapes this year were super, however, we did something wrong, and have spoiled around 75 litres of wine. thats our second successive year of failed wine, so next year we will ask a local to help. i think air has found its way into the storage container, or in filtering we have reactivated some yeast and its gone bad (unlikely) so, a more controlled approach will be employed next year.
craigthecoupe said:
we will have a try again this year. Neither my wife nor i are that well educated in the gardening world, but enjoy spending time in our allotment with our daughter.
Full disclosure, we are now in rural Tuscany, and it's common for the village houses to have their own orto (allotment) on the edge of the village, each house having it's own plots. Our house is no exception, and overlooks all of the others from the village too. We have a strict pop it in the ground and it might grow policy, which, despite the dry and the heat of last year served us well.
We managed tomatoes, leeks, potatoes, celery, peppers, butternut squash, courgettes, cavolo nero, cabbages, parsnips, radish, and rocket. with melon, raspberries, and strawberries doing us for fruit. our flops were peas, beans, sweetcorn and pak choi. I think it was simply too hot and dry. They got started, then died just as they should have been producing. our other flop was wine. we have around 100 vines, and the grapes this year were super, however, we did something wrong, and have spoiled around 75 litres of wine. thats our second successive year of failed wine, so next year we will ask a local to help. i think air has found its way into the storage container, or in filtering we have reactivated some yeast and its gone bad (unlikely) so, a more controlled approach will be employed next year.
It's interesting to hear from our foreign correspondent Full disclosure, we are now in rural Tuscany, and it's common for the village houses to have their own orto (allotment) on the edge of the village, each house having it's own plots. Our house is no exception, and overlooks all of the others from the village too. We have a strict pop it in the ground and it might grow policy, which, despite the dry and the heat of last year served us well.
We managed tomatoes, leeks, potatoes, celery, peppers, butternut squash, courgettes, cavolo nero, cabbages, parsnips, radish, and rocket. with melon, raspberries, and strawberries doing us for fruit. our flops were peas, beans, sweetcorn and pak choi. I think it was simply too hot and dry. They got started, then died just as they should have been producing. our other flop was wine. we have around 100 vines, and the grapes this year were super, however, we did something wrong, and have spoiled around 75 litres of wine. thats our second successive year of failed wine, so next year we will ask a local to help. i think air has found its way into the storage container, or in filtering we have reactivated some yeast and its gone bad (unlikely) so, a more controlled approach will be employed next year.
Where does the water come from for the plants, is there plenty of it?
I've done a bit of brewing, I was going to say 'not on that scale', but we did make about 75ltrs of cider one year. Have got a few DJs of locally grown plum Rose wine on the go at the moment.
Has it gone to vinegar and is it possibly bacteria from something (being dirty)? As a home based beginner you have to sterilise everything carefully until you know what you're doing. Otherwise you end up with vinegar
This is easy with homemade stuff as all your equipment is made from impermeable materials, not like wooden kegs if you have them?
Evoluzione said:
craigthecoupe said:
we will have a try again this year. Neither my wife nor i are that well educated in the gardening world, but enjoy spending time in our allotment with our daughter.
Full disclosure, we are now in rural Tuscany, and it's common for the village houses to have their own orto (allotment) on the edge of the village, each house having it's own plots. Our house is no exception, and overlooks all of the others from the village too. We have a strict pop it in the ground and it might grow policy, which, despite the dry and the heat of last year served us well.
We managed tomatoes, leeks, potatoes, celery, peppers, butternut squash, courgettes, cavolo nero, cabbages, parsnips, radish, and rocket. with melon, raspberries, and strawberries doing us for fruit. our flops were peas, beans, sweetcorn and pak choi. I think it was simply too hot and dry. They got started, then died just as they should have been producing. our other flop was wine. we have around 100 vines, and the grapes this year were super, however, we did something wrong, and have spoiled around 75 litres of wine. thats our second successive year of failed wine, so next year we will ask a local to help. i think air has found its way into the storage container, or in filtering we have reactivated some yeast and its gone bad (unlikely) so, a more controlled approach will be employed next year.
It's interesting to hear from our foreign correspondent Full disclosure, we are now in rural Tuscany, and it's common for the village houses to have their own orto (allotment) on the edge of the village, each house having it's own plots. Our house is no exception, and overlooks all of the others from the village too. We have a strict pop it in the ground and it might grow policy, which, despite the dry and the heat of last year served us well.
We managed tomatoes, leeks, potatoes, celery, peppers, butternut squash, courgettes, cavolo nero, cabbages, parsnips, radish, and rocket. with melon, raspberries, and strawberries doing us for fruit. our flops were peas, beans, sweetcorn and pak choi. I think it was simply too hot and dry. They got started, then died just as they should have been producing. our other flop was wine. we have around 100 vines, and the grapes this year were super, however, we did something wrong, and have spoiled around 75 litres of wine. thats our second successive year of failed wine, so next year we will ask a local to help. i think air has found its way into the storage container, or in filtering we have reactivated some yeast and its gone bad (unlikely) so, a more controlled approach will be employed next year.
Where does the water come from for the plants, is there plenty of it?
I've done a bit of brewing, I was going to say 'not on that scale', but we did make about 75ltrs of cider one year. Have got a few DJs of locally grown plum Rose wine on the go at the moment.
Has it gone to vinegar and is it possibly bacteria from something (being dirty)? As a home based beginner you have to sterilise everything carefully until you know what you're doing. Otherwise you end up with vinegar
This is easy with homemade stuff as all your equipment is made from impermeable materials, not like wooden kegs if you have them?
We moved in two years ago, quite late in the season to start growing, also, the soil was in a bit of a state, so we have been working to improve it over the last 18 months.
We live in the northern mountains of tuscany, and are situated 600 meters ASL. the mountain continues behind us up to about 1600m. Water wise, we pay as a collective to take the water from a stream up and across from us, i think there are about 50 people in total, it's unfiltered, for agricultural use, and fed by a holding tank that was built yonks ago. It was unlimited, but last year the water authority metered it, giving an allowance collectively of 40,000m3, it costs around 50 euros a year from memory.
With regards to the wine, it could be dirt, or it could be something else. we used glass DJs for the storage vessels. we had 3 10L bottles, and a 54L one too. they were a mish mash of bought new and old, it's possible they could have scratches in the glass that harboured some bacteria? we did clean them thoroughly, and sterilise, but who knows? For next year, we will buy a 100L stainless tank like many of the locals do now. once cleaned and filled, you pour vaseline oil on the surface, then pop on a lid that floats on top, followed by an external dust cover. this ensures no air can get in. assuming its clean in the first place it should be impossible to spoil. wine on tap is still the goal
the grapes here are nothing special, but our vines are ancient, we dont want to rip them out, but as some die, or some simply missing, we will probably replace them with something like a pinot noir, or a cabernet. the characteristics of our (plebs) grapes is they produce a very dry wine, this is typical of the whole area, and it's not the best wine, but they were here when we arrived, so no harm it trying.... Hopefully, we can calm the wine down over the years to arrive at something pleasant.
craigthecoupe said:
I just thought it fair to say, as our climates will vary somewhat.
We moved in two years ago, quite late in the season to start growing, also, the soil was in a bit of a state, so we have been working to improve it over the last 18 months.
We live in the northern mountains of tuscany, and are situated 600 meters ASL. the mountain continues behind us up to about 1600m. Water wise, we pay as a collective to take the water from a stream up and across from us, i think there are about 50 people in total, it's unfiltered, for agricultural use, and fed by a holding tank that was built yonks ago. It was unlimited, but last year the water authority metered it, giving an allowance collectively of 40,000m3, it costs around 50 euros a year from memory.
With regards to the wine, it could be dirt, or it could be something else. we used glass DJs for the storage vessels. we had 3 10L bottles, and a 54L one too. they were a mish mash of bought new and old, it's possible they could have scratches in the glass that harboured some bacteria? we did clean them thoroughly, and sterilise, but who knows? For next year, we will buy a 100L stainless tank like many of the locals do now. once cleaned and filled, you pour vaseline oil on the surface, then pop on a lid that floats on top, followed by an external dust cover. this ensures no air can get in. assuming its clean in the first place it should be impossible to spoil. wine on tap is still the goal
the grapes here are nothing special, but our vines are ancient, we dont want to rip them out, but as some die, or some simply missing, we will probably replace them with something like a pinot noir, or a cabernet. the characteristics of our (plebs) grapes is they produce a very dry wine, this is typical of the whole area, and it's not the best wine, but they were here when we arrived, so no harm it trying.... Hopefully, we can calm the wine down over the years to arrive at something pleasant.
Another hillside altitude gardener I see, but about twice the height we are at. I don't know about you, but wind is a big problem here. I don't know if you read it, but we already discussed growing sweetcorn briefly and how you need to plant it.We moved in two years ago, quite late in the season to start growing, also, the soil was in a bit of a state, so we have been working to improve it over the last 18 months.
We live in the northern mountains of tuscany, and are situated 600 meters ASL. the mountain continues behind us up to about 1600m. Water wise, we pay as a collective to take the water from a stream up and across from us, i think there are about 50 people in total, it's unfiltered, for agricultural use, and fed by a holding tank that was built yonks ago. It was unlimited, but last year the water authority metered it, giving an allowance collectively of 40,000m3, it costs around 50 euros a year from memory.
With regards to the wine, it could be dirt, or it could be something else. we used glass DJs for the storage vessels. we had 3 10L bottles, and a 54L one too. they were a mish mash of bought new and old, it's possible they could have scratches in the glass that harboured some bacteria? we did clean them thoroughly, and sterilise, but who knows? For next year, we will buy a 100L stainless tank like many of the locals do now. once cleaned and filled, you pour vaseline oil on the surface, then pop on a lid that floats on top, followed by an external dust cover. this ensures no air can get in. assuming its clean in the first place it should be impossible to spoil. wine on tap is still the goal
the grapes here are nothing special, but our vines are ancient, we dont want to rip them out, but as some die, or some simply missing, we will probably replace them with something like a pinot noir, or a cabernet. the characteristics of our (plebs) grapes is they produce a very dry wine, this is typical of the whole area, and it's not the best wine, but they were here when we arrived, so no harm it trying.... Hopefully, we can calm the wine down over the years to arrive at something pleasant.
I like the oil trick, very clever, never heard of that before.
This is not only to you, but everyone else too: When you start gardening know your soil type. Loam, clay, stony, acidity, poor or well draining etc. It's easily checked, but you need to know what you have before choosing plants. Some won't mind what they're in, some will.
You'll probably find your grapes are grown where they are for good reason, lots of sun and in a soil they like.
If you sterilised your DJs and bubblers (it's handy to fill the airlocks with steriliser too btw) I can't see the problem being there. DJs have a narrow neck for a good reason, it's to reduce the surface area of the liquid to prevent contamination so make sure they're filled right up to the necks.
You'll maybe need to look further back in the process at what you used to examine where the failure was, what equipment possibly escaped. It's also usual to use sodium metabisulphite (campden tablets) in the initial juice to kill off any unwanted bacteria. There is good (which is what you want) and bad bacteria types, also different yeasts (some already present).
The less chemicals you use the better it is, but some are unavoidable.
DJs are ok for trials and small batches, but I don't use them anymore for cider, I use 25ltr buckets now.
The aptly named CJ Berry probably popped his clogs years ago, but he was King of home brewing, I would strongly advise getting one of his books. When making plum wine he advised it would lack body and be a bit thin perhaps, the way around that was to throw some grain into the initial mix. It's maturing atm, but on tasting a bit I was quite happy with what i've made.
The secret to healthy(!) drinkable, fizzy cider is back sweetening with artificial sweetener. It's an act of desperation to do it to wine, but if you have a lot which is too dry to drink it's something you could at least experiment with in a small amount to see if it suits.
Not only are seeds so cheap, but Strawberry plants are a bargain too. I bought something like 4 - 6 plants last Spring for £1 ea to get me going and bunged them in front of the tomato bed. I let them go purposely and they've thrown so many runners out I've got well over 60 plants now, maybe around 80. I'm only part way through digging them up and potting them on into temporary containers to plant out in Summer. I'm doing the job twice which isn't great, but I need to prep the bed they're in for other things, I don't have a home outside for them yet and it's too cold & wet to plant out anyhow.
Yes, it's time to get your sandals on.
I'm 'pro organic' and you as gardeners should be too. You garden for good reasons and it isn't to save money. I've battled lightly, had a wee skirmish perhaps with those thoughts as some of you will have, you can buy a celery or cucumber for a quid in a Supermarket so why bother? You can answer that as it isn't what this particular chapter is all about.
What i'm saying is that you can apply those basic gardening values to furthering yourself to being organic, or more organic.
When many of us first start out we might and probably do throw a load of seed in the ground, lob some chemicals at it throughout the season and hope for the best, I certainly did.
Then if the bug bites and we carry on we hopefully realise our mistakes, act and get better and better at it. So you can be excused for not starting off on the right path, but not to carry on along it when you find it.
If you carry on in the same vein then consider yourself a Faux gardener and must question why you do it.
Chemicals are to get us going, help us out of a tight spot quickly and as a last resort. They are not the only, nor are they the best answer.
There are some organic methods which do work, some don't. Some will tell you to use Ladybirds on aphids, try training a Ladybird to do the work, you will fail.
Soapy water sprayed on usually sorts aphids and the like out quite quickly so try that first before reaching for the chemical bug spray.
It's about getting rid of them promptly before they destroy your crops, so if you have chemical bug spray then use it, but then sit back and think how to do it better next time.
Look into ND - 'No dig' gardening and apply it wherever possible, Charles Dowding (YT, books and website) is very active with this, has written and spoken at length about it.
ND is like a lot of things which people discover, they then try to apply it to everything and make it work, but it doesn't. It does work well in many situations however and should be applied wherever possible.
It's about looking at the ground and realising that it's good as it is, it's settled and everything is in there and happy. Disturbing it by turning it over will make it worse and your crops will get weaker - it's proven, farmers are realising it, heck, they might have even been the first to discover it before gardeners started to adopt it.
So simply put a layer or two of cardboard on any weeds or grass, some compost on top of that and plant on.
That neatly brings us onto:
Being an organic gardener
Yes, it's time to get your sandals on.
I'm 'pro organic' and you as gardeners should be too. You garden for good reasons and it isn't to save money. I've battled lightly, had a wee skirmish perhaps with those thoughts as some of you will have, you can buy a celery or cucumber for a quid in a Supermarket so why bother? You can answer that as it isn't what this particular chapter is all about.
What i'm saying is that you can apply those basic gardening values to furthering yourself to being organic, or more organic.
When many of us first start out we might and probably do throw a load of seed in the ground, lob some chemicals at it throughout the season and hope for the best, I certainly did.
Then if the bug bites and we carry on we hopefully realise our mistakes, act and get better and better at it. So you can be excused for not starting off on the right path, but not to carry on along it when you find it.
If you carry on in the same vein then consider yourself a Faux gardener and must question why you do it.
Chemicals are to get us going, help us out of a tight spot quickly and as a last resort. They are not the only, nor are they the best answer.
There are some organic methods which do work, some don't. Some will tell you to use Ladybirds on aphids, try training a Ladybird to do the work, you will fail.
Soapy water sprayed on usually sorts aphids and the like out quite quickly so try that first before reaching for the chemical bug spray.
It's about getting rid of them promptly before they destroy your crops, so if you have chemical bug spray then use it, but then sit back and think how to do it better next time.
Look into ND - 'No dig' gardening and apply it wherever possible, Charles Dowding (YT, books and website) is very active with this, has written and spoken at length about it.
ND is like a lot of things which people discover, they then try to apply it to everything and make it work, but it doesn't. It does work well in many situations however and should be applied wherever possible.
It's about looking at the ground and realising that it's good as it is, it's settled and everything is in there and happy. Disturbing it by turning it over will make it worse and your crops will get weaker - it's proven, farmers are realising it, heck, they might have even been the first to discover it before gardeners started to adopt it.
So simply put a layer or two of cardboard on any weeds or grass, some compost on top of that and plant on.
That neatly brings us onto:
Compost
A big and very important subject.I'm a keen composter, I know a bit, I don't know it all, I just think it's important (as gardeners) to do it.
It would be good to talk about it here and encourage you (composters) and those who need converting to chat about it. Let me/us convince you that you can make your own, if you do make your own then talk about how you do it and why.
Home composting ideas or problems? Post them up!
Am I a compost expert? Absolutely not. I got into gardening for all the right reasons and found that those same ethics applied to DIY compost too so have been having a go for a few years now with great success.
If you put your garden waste into the Council bin to be taken away they charge you for it (either separately or it's already included in your Council tax). They then sell it onto compost makers. Who make it into compost and sell it back to you.
So you're paying for it twice, they're making mugs of you really.
Particularly as when you get it back it's often terrible! It can even have traces of weedkiller in it which will effect your plants.
At the moment bagged compost World is in purgatory. Peat is or was a very effective ingredient of all bagged compost, but it's being phased out and will be banned soon. This means the producers are having to sell compost without it, they are in the experimental stages at the moment and you dear gardener are the Guinea pigs. Some is ok, some is utter rubbish. Some stinks of chemicals. Some has traces of weedkiller in it which will have an extreme effect on your plants. Some is dry and difficult to moisten (water just runs through), some is low in nutrients (all or just some) and some isn't even ready, it needs to be processed (composted further) before its fit for use.
This makes making your own even more important right now.
Advantages of making your own:
It's cheaper.
Less toll on the planet: You aren't buying plastic bags. The bin wagon isn't stopping at your house, the ingredients you need and use aren't being driven around the country before being sold back to you.
You'll be sure there is no weedkiller in the mix.
You are in charge of the time, method and ingredients so make it to suit whatever final use it has. Potting compost, general use or whatever.
It keeps you fit, it gets you out into the garden in Winter doing something useful.
Disadvantages
Some weed and grass roots and seeds can survive, but it's not a huge issue and bought compost often has them in anyhow.
It takes time.
Common excuses/misnomers:
I don't have the space. Unless you've got nothing but a window box or a balcony you do. A compost bin or heap is part of a working garden, it's like a raised bed, a path, a flower bed. It has it's place somewhere.
It's too wet/cold. Wrong. If it's too wet then cover it over and no, it never gets too cold for compost. I can show you a Youtube clip of a guy getting a hot shower in the snow. The water was heated by his compost heap. I make successful compost up here on the Pennines.
I don't like the look of it. Buy a compost bin and paint some flowers on it, hide it. Heck, make it into a Dalek or whatever.
You could even create a composter in the ground. Yes really! Dig a hole, put the ingredients in, soil back over the top and walk away. In maybe 3 months uncover it and turn it over before leaving it another 3 months. Then dig it up, if it's ready then use it, or just leave it.
Types of composters:
As per above, a simple hole in the ground could do. That aside:
Some pallets used to form a square is cheap and simple (pallets are often free if you have a car big enough or can carry them home). Simply screw them together at the corners with some cheap angle brackets and/or tie a rope or strap around them.
The common 'compost dalek' or simple bin is cheap, or often even free.
Rotating composter. If it's in within your budget then theses are great and available in many different sizes.
Hot composter. We're getting into expensive and pro territory here...
Bokashi Bin. I have no experience of these, but if you have a small output of waste and a small space they may just suit you.
If you don't want to buy new, then buy used or for free, Facebook marketplace and Freecycle are just two places which are good for this.
Ingredients.
You need somewhere around equal amounts of 'brown' & 'Green' waste.
All kitchen veg scraps, nothing else (no meat, dairy etc) are green.
All your waste cardboard and paper are brown. Throw it in whole, unless it's a book or too big to go in there is no need to shred. In fact, the more air pockets in there the better. If your cardboard has tape on it then either pull it off or put it in as it is, the cardboard will rot away and you can pull the tape out of the compost later. I tip our whole wastepaper bins in the compost, it's better for the environment and it's better for security, no-one can read our personal details.
Lawn clippings are green
Leaves, twigs and chipped twigs, bark etc are brown.
Tea leaves, coffee grounds can go in too. I've found T bags don't rot down so well, so tear them open and just compost the tea leaves.
You can put eggshells in, but i'm not a fan as they don't break down. Same goes for Avocado and peach/plum stones
Manure and bedding from horses, cows, alpacas, chickens, rabbits. Basically anything which eats grass and green stuff.
Used, old and tired compost.
Old plants from the garden.
Soil.
Ash from the log burner
Weeds? Leaves and stalks will go straight in. Personally I would dry out any roots or seed pods (or just the whole lot) and burn them in Winter. If you don't have a chipping or mulching machine then burn dried tough stuff too. Put all the ash into your compost.
There are multiple different types of composting, but as far as we're concerned there are basically two:
1. Aerobic composting takes place in the presence of gaseous oxygen.
2. Anaerobic composting takes place where no air is present
Type one needs various methods of getting air into it (the most basic being turning it), it'll get hot which speeds up the process. If left type 1 will turn into type 2.
Type 2 is done mainly by worms. These eat the ingredients and basically poo out fantastic compost!
T1 is quick, but requires more kit and labour.
T2 is the lazy mans compost, but is much slower.
They both make fantastic compost.
Unless it's a rotating composter the basics of it are pile it all in, leave it a month or two and adjust the water content by putting a cover or the lid over to regulate the rain, sun and wind. It needs to be damp or wet. Not dry or dripping/soaking wet.
After that time it needs turning. Everything at the top and the sides needs to go to the bottom or the centre and vice-versa.
If your heap is big enough (1m cube or more) then you can keep an eye on the core temps to tell you what is going on. Mine goes up to 65c then drops off. When it's got down to about 10 or 20c in Winter I know it's time to turn it and it'll heat up again. When it stops heating up much after being turned it's about ready. Once it's cooled the compost worms will move in and do their bit.
There are a lot of claims of compost being produced in 6 weeks which I don't really believe or think it's possibly not great compost. Personally I would say it takes at least 6 months, but it does depend on conditions, type of composter, ingredients etc.
Do not ever worry about worms finding their way in, if the ingredients are sat directly on ground, concrete, stone, tarmac, whatever they will find their way in and multiply. Apart from Bokashi or rotating, all basic compost receptacles are bottomless.
Once it's complete it should smell earthy and resemble soil.
They are the very brief basics of composting and it's amazing (if not a little sad) how often the modern gardener doesn't do it anymore.
If you don't, then have a go, it's really quite satisfying, has many positives and no negatives. There are loads of guides online and in books on how to do it.
Do your bit for the environment and yourself too, make your own compost.
Evoluzione said:
Another hillside altitude gardener I see, but about twice the height we are at. I don't know about you, but wind is a big problem here. I don't know if you read it, but we already discussed growing sweetcorn briefly and how you need to plant it.
I like the oil trick, very clever, never heard of that before.
This is not only to you, but everyone else too: When you start gardening know your soil type. Loam, clay, stony, acidity, poor or well draining etc. It's easily checked, but you need to know what you have before choosing plants. Some won't mind what they're in, some will.
You'll probably find your grapes are grown where they are for good reason, lots of sun and in a soil they like.
If you sterilised your DJs and bubblers (it's handy to fill the airlocks with steriliser too btw) I can't see the problem being there. DJs have a narrow neck for a good reason, it's to reduce the surface area of the liquid to prevent contamination so make sure they're filled right up to the necks.
You'll maybe need to look further back in the process at what you used to examine where the failure was, what equipment possibly escaped. It's also usual to use sodium metabisulphite (campden tablets) in the initial juice to kill off any unwanted bacteria. There is good (which is what you want) and bad bacteria types, also different yeasts (some already present).
The less chemicals you use the better it is, but some are unavoidable.
DJs are ok for trials and small batches, but I don't use them anymore for cider, I use 25ltr buckets now.
The aptly named CJ Berry probably popped his clogs years ago, but he was King of home brewing, I would strongly advise getting one of his books. When making plum wine he advised it would lack body and be a bit thin perhaps, the way around that was to throw some grain into the initial mix. It's maturing atm, but on tasting a bit I was quite happy with what i've made.
The secret to healthy(!) drinkable, fizzy cider is back sweetening with artificial sweetener. It's an act of desperation to do it to wine, but if you have a lot which is too dry to drink it's something you could at least experiment with in a small amount to see if it suits.
I like the oil trick, very clever, never heard of that before.
This is not only to you, but everyone else too: When you start gardening know your soil type. Loam, clay, stony, acidity, poor or well draining etc. It's easily checked, but you need to know what you have before choosing plants. Some won't mind what they're in, some will.
You'll probably find your grapes are grown where they are for good reason, lots of sun and in a soil they like.
If you sterilised your DJs and bubblers (it's handy to fill the airlocks with steriliser too btw) I can't see the problem being there. DJs have a narrow neck for a good reason, it's to reduce the surface area of the liquid to prevent contamination so make sure they're filled right up to the necks.
You'll maybe need to look further back in the process at what you used to examine where the failure was, what equipment possibly escaped. It's also usual to use sodium metabisulphite (campden tablets) in the initial juice to kill off any unwanted bacteria. There is good (which is what you want) and bad bacteria types, also different yeasts (some already present).
The less chemicals you use the better it is, but some are unavoidable.
DJs are ok for trials and small batches, but I don't use them anymore for cider, I use 25ltr buckets now.
The aptly named CJ Berry probably popped his clogs years ago, but he was King of home brewing, I would strongly advise getting one of his books. When making plum wine he advised it would lack body and be a bit thin perhaps, the way around that was to throw some grain into the initial mix. It's maturing atm, but on tasting a bit I was quite happy with what i've made.
The secret to healthy(!) drinkable, fizzy cider is back sweetening with artificial sweetener. It's an act of desperation to do it to wine, but if you have a lot which is too dry to drink it's something you could at least experiment with in a small amount to see if it suits.
Thanks for the comments. Our demijohns differ somewhat from what i know in the uk. these are like a large lightbulb shape, and the wine is siphoned off as you go. A special cap sits on top and the wine is drawn off from there. rightly, the neck is very narrow to reduce surface area, but as you get further through, the area increases. we did use vaseline oil, but perhaps not enough...
also, sulphites will be something we will use next year. we were tempted this year, but we were disorganised with the harvest, and didn't have time to get ourselves straight to know what we were supposed to do and when. it's all part of the learning.
back sweetening was something we thought about, but the wine became so rank in such a short order, the thought of putting that stuff in my guts, sweetened or not, wasn't something i fancied
craigthecoupe said:
Thanks for the comments. Our demijohns differ somewhat from what i know in the uk. these are like a large lightbulb shape, and the wine is siphoned off as you go. A special cap sits on top and the wine is drawn off from there. rightly, the neck is very narrow to reduce surface area, but as you get further through, the area increases. we did use vaseline oil, but perhaps not enough...
also, sulphites will be something we will use next year. we were tempted this year, but we were disorganised with the harvest, and didn't have time to get ourselves straight to know what we were supposed to do and when. it's all part of the learning.
back sweetening was something we thought about, but the wine became so rank in such a short order, the thought of putting that stuff in my guts, sweetened or not, wasn't something i fancied
By using sweetener I didn't mean to turn destroyed wine (that is maybe vinegar) into something drinkable, it's beyond help, but to get around the issue of naturally extra dry wine as per your grape variety.
Hard cider as it's known is like battery acid, i've only ever known one person who likes it so back sweetening is the only way to make it drinkable.
Have you thought about making Grappa btw?
yes i have, and i will. Though it's bloody horrid stuff, it'll be a bit of fun. Our old landlord used to make it in the basement, so went and had a look at how he did it. our neighbour to one side is a real fan, and in fairness, has some quite pleasant bottles of it, but you need to spend some good money to get beyond paint stripper.
Evoluzione said:
Hard cider as it's known is like battery acid, i've only ever known one person who likes it so back sweetening is the only way to make it drinkable.
The real secret is to get the blend of apples right so it isn’t too acidic, easier said than done though!I pasteurised all our apple juice and used it as juice this year - much more useful and enjoyable really.
Edited by Jambo85 on Saturday 28th January 14:06
Sticks. said:
The last time I opened the flap to my compost bin there were some huge slugs in it 
Something is wrong there perhaps, it's strange, but I usually only see worms, not slugs in compost. Slugs like to eat fresh vegetation so maybe there is some of that uncovered? Perhaps they're using it as a home now.Is it too dry and loose maybe? If it's too dry that's easily dealt with at this time of the year - leave the lid off when it rains.
If it hasn't had anything done with it for a while then you can tip it all out then fork it back in a different order, water if needed and leave it for a while.
Edited by Evoluzione on Saturday 28th January 18:34
Jambo85 said:
Evoluzione said:
Hard cider as it's known is like battery acid, i've only ever known one person who likes it so back sweetening is the only way to make it drinkable.
The real secret is to get the blend of apples right so it isn’t too acidic, easier said than done though!I pasteurised all our apple juice and used it as juice this year - much more useful and enjoyable really.
Edited by Jambo85 on Saturday 28th January 14:06
Sweetness and acidity in cider are not opposites.
You can have a sweet cider with lots of Malic Acid in it, or a dry cider with low acidity.
Blending the apples and controlling OG and acid content is a big part of the art.
If you want sour, I made some truly awful sloe gin!
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