New build deviating from plans…

New build deviating from plans…

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Discussion

OutInTheShed

7,636 posts

27 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
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If they can't do obvious stuff, like put the door and bannister in the right place, why on earth would you have any confidence that anything a bit technical and hidden is correct?

Is the hidden insulation installed to plan?
Is the structure correct?

Do the drawings match the show house?
Does the house being built match the drawings?
IS it 'accidentally' wrong, or are they building a cheaper house? Smaller?

I'd be sending in a proper surveyor.

If it's not to spec, walk away.

ChevronB19

5,796 posts

164 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
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Lower bannister looks like it’s not 90 degrees rather than any fundamental problem (other than the incompetence of whoever put it in)? Or is it just how I am seeing the picture?

Nickbrapp

5,277 posts

131 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
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OutInTheShed said:
If they can't do obvious stuff, like put the door and bannister in the right place, why on earth would you have any confidence that anything a bit technical and hidden is correct?

Is the hidden insulation installed to plan?
Is the structure correct?

Do the drawings match the show house?
Does the house being built match the drawings?
IS it 'accidentally' wrong, or are they building a cheaper house? Smaller?

I'd be sending in a proper surveyor.

If it's not to spec, walk away.
Just because there’s one monkey on site doesn’t mean every trade is crap at their job

Zarco

17,877 posts

210 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
quotequote all
Nickbrapp said:
OutInTheShed said:
If they can't do obvious stuff, like put the door and bannister in the right place, why on earth would you have any confidence that anything a bit technical and hidden is correct?

Is the hidden insulation installed to plan?
Is the structure correct?

Do the drawings match the show house?
Does the house being built match the drawings?
IS it 'accidentally' wrong, or are they building a cheaper house? Smaller?

I'd be sending in a proper surveyor.

If it's not to spec, walk away.
Just because there’s one monkey on site doesn’t mean every trade is crap at their job
It might even be the architect that has cocked up the setting out.

What I found amusing was that the chippy had cut the architrave around the newel post. It clearly can't stay like that. Whether it has been built to drawing or not.


OutInTheShed

7,636 posts

27 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
quotequote all
Nickbrapp said:
Just because there’s one monkey on site doesn’t mean every trade is crap at their job
No, but it means the job is either very badly managed or deliberately short of what the customer is expecting.

What happened here?

Stairs made to drawing off site?
Don't fit because the house is built wrong?

If the wall's in the wrong place, what else has been bodged to fit?

Mr Whippy

29,049 posts

242 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
quotequote all
OutInTheShed said:
If they can't do obvious stuff, like put the door and bannister in the right place, why on earth would you have any confidence that anything a bit technical and hidden is correct?

Is the hidden insulation installed to plan?
Is the structure correct?

Do the drawings match the show house?
Does the house being built match the drawings?
IS it 'accidentally' wrong, or are they building a cheaper house? Smaller?

I'd be sending in a proper surveyor.

If it's not to spec, walk away.
When you exchange, the contract will define things like…

“If things change we can not tell you, and if you notice we’ll then talk about it with regards contract”

But when you ask their solicitor for a full spec so you can spot a deviation, then no joy. They won’t specify it because they can’t at that point because they’re making a rod for their own back.

The house I was due to exchange on, but didn’t because of this kind of bullst, had tons of material changes to what I expected. Including the garden being 2ft shorter than expected.


If the OP has exchanged, it’s very likely they’ve agreed to this.

This is why buying a new build off-plan is risky because you’ve no idea what you’ll get.

And they won’t exchange with terms in your favour on build spec.

You literally are at their mercy on what you get and the quality of it, given building regs and so forth are essentially a self-certified joke these days.

wolfracesonic

7,010 posts

128 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
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Toaster Pilot said:
The window thing is sorted now and looks good, you’d struggle to tell it’d ever been anything else.



That would have been better with the half newel taken up to the same height as the head architrave, then the newel cap fixed, maybe a solution if you raise the matter with the builders.

BigMon

4,196 posts

130 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
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Shocking tbh.

As others have said, you'll just have to be a massive PITA to them. Not enjoyable though and tiring and annoying, so I very much feel for you.

Flooble

5,565 posts

101 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
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b0rk said:
...

I'd suggest you measure up all the rooms vs plans to see if anything else is out. As Promised Land says its possible the whole plot has been built small by accident.
I have to say that was my first thought when Toaster posted the picture of what it was supposed to look like. Plots are a bit smaller than they were supposed to be and things have been "squeezed" to fit. Like the other poster who had a garden two feet smaller than promised.

I might be cynical and I'm sure those who work for housebuilders will tell me that they wouldn't do it, but most of us who have bought a house have had the joy of the "Boundary Line is not precise" challenge on plans. If the overall development site turned out to be a few feet short, would that get caught during surveying, or would it be a case of just squeezing each of the houses a bit?


Mr Whippy

29,049 posts

242 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
quotequote all
Flooble said:
I might be cynical and I'm sure those who work for housebuilders will tell me that they wouldn't do it, but most of us who have bought a house have had the joy of the "Boundary Line is not precise" challenge on plans. If the overall development site turned out to be a few feet short, would that get caught during surveying, or would it be a case of just squeezing each of the houses a bit?
In my case (though I didn’t exchange in the end thankfully!) the builder appeared to not want to reconcile the old brownfield boundary because of old thick rooted hedges, reinforced concrete posts, etc, so they just put the fence up 2-3ft back.

God knows where the red line is now, or what’s on the deeds.

But to expect clarity on anything usefully material at exchange is impossible.
Thus it’s also impossible to know what you might end up with by the end.
Once builders dig their heels in you’re getting what you’ve been given.

anonymous-user

55 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
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Flooble said:
b0rk said:
...

I'd suggest you measure up all the rooms vs plans to see if anything else is out. As Promised Land says its possible the whole plot has been built small by accident.
I have to say that was my first thought when Toaster posted the picture of what it was supposed to look like. Plots are a bit smaller than they were supposed to be and things have been "squeezed" to fit. Like the other poster who had a garden two feet smaller than promised.

I might be cynical and I'm sure those who work for housebuilders will tell me that they wouldn't do it, but most of us who have bought a house have had the joy of the "Boundary Line is not precise" challenge on plans. If the overall development site turned out to be a few feet short, would that get caught during surveying, or would it be a case of just squeezing each of the houses a bit?
I guarantee that all the literature and/or contracts will give the developer some flexibility in size variation.

Andeh1

7,112 posts

207 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
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A lot of excitement & drama over nothing here....

All houses, since the dawn of time have been hand built by people clock watching & just wanting to get home, knowing full well the chance of their home work actually being marked is next to zero. Doesn't matter what era, what age, or what generation....95% are built to an average standard by blokes who just dont care. The difference is new houses are generally designed & managed with this in mind, so major fk ups are rare.

We are 3/4 through a £500k bespoke new build, with a builder who is very very good. Even then though, his team managed to build 40sqm of wall wonky (started off plumb, deviated to +50mm over 6m). He spotted it as they went to put the first rafter on! He shrugged it off, chalked it up as a 'clanger' and simply took tit down, moved it and rebuilt it within the course of a week. Rest of the work (I check daily) has been nothing short of brilliant....but mistakes do happen.

Even that door frame/bannister is likely a few days work to rectify & move on. Either doors moves over slightly, or the stairs do. Pain in the ass, but entirely doable & no one will pat an eyelid other then us & OP.

As for 'new builds' - I've been in three of them over my time. They are very much fit for a purpose. They are ruthlessly space efficient, impressively well insulated, no drama, and low maintenance . However they are also hollow & feel fragile, and can be claustrophic estate wise..

My neighbour on the other hand, has a Grade 2 listed ex-manor house. It is built of pure brick, brick and more brick & has lasted for 400 years....however it has foundations on soil & costs £1500 per month to run, the wind whistles through the interior doors...

Every generation is different, but they are all much of a muchness in the big scheme of things!!!

cadmunkey

458 posts

90 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
quotequote all
Andeh1 said:
A lot of excitement & drama over nothing here....

All houses, since the dawn of time have been hand built by people clock watching & just wanting to get home, knowing full well the chance of their home work actually being marked is next to zero. Doesn't matter what era, what age, or what generation....95% are built to an average standard by blokes who just dont care. The difference is new houses are generally designed & managed with this in mind, so major fk ups are rare.

We are 3/4 through a £500k bespoke new build, with a builder who is very very good. Even then though, his team managed to build 40sqm of wall wonky (started off plumb, deviated to +50mm over 6m). He spotted it as they went to put the first rafter on! He shrugged it off, chalked it up as a 'clanger' and simply took tit down, moved it and rebuilt it within the course of a week. Rest of the work (I check daily) has been nothing short of brilliant....but mistakes do happen.

Even that door frame/bannister is likely a few days work to rectify & move on. Either doors moves over slightly, or the stairs do. Pain in the ass, but entirely doable & no one will pat an eyelid other then us & OP.

As for 'new builds' - I've been in three of them over my time. They are very much fit for a purpose. They are ruthlessly space efficient, impressively well insulated, no drama, and low maintenance . However they are also hollow & feel fragile, and can be claustrophic estate wise..

My neighbour on the other hand, has a Grade 2 listed ex-manor house. It is built of pure brick, brick and more brick & has lasted for 400 years....however it has foundations on soil & costs £1500 per month to run, the wind whistles through the interior doors...

Every generation is different, but they are all much of a muchness in the big scheme of things!!!
A very pragmatic viewpoint and most of it fair play in the grand scheme of things. I just think OP is more shocked someone finished that woodwork and walked away from it thinking "job done". Everything can be fixed, of course.

PositronicRay

27,034 posts

184 months

Monday 13th March 2023
quotequote all
cadmunkey said:
Andeh1 said:
A lot of excitement & drama over nothing here....

All houses, since the dawn of time have been hand built by people clock watching & just wanting to get home, knowing full well the chance of their home work actually being marked is next to zero. Doesn't matter what era, what age, or what generation....95% are built to an average standard by blokes who just dont care. The difference is new houses are generally designed & managed with this in mind, so major fk ups are rare.

We are 3/4 through a £500k bespoke new build, with a builder who is very very good. Even then though, his team managed to build 40sqm of wall wonky (started off plumb, deviated to +50mm over 6m). He spotted it as they went to put the first rafter on! He shrugged it off, chalked it up as a 'clanger' and simply took tit down, moved it and rebuilt it within the course of a week. Rest of the work (I check daily) has been nothing short of brilliant....but mistakes do happen.

Even that door frame/bannister is likely a few days work to rectify & move on. Either doors moves over slightly, or the stairs do. Pain in the ass, but entirely doable & no one will pat an eyelid other then us & OP.

As for 'new builds' - I've been in three of them over my time. They are very much fit for a purpose. They are ruthlessly space efficient, impressively well insulated, no drama, and low maintenance . However they are also hollow & feel fragile, and can be claustrophic estate wise..

My neighbour on the other hand, has a Grade 2 listed ex-manor house. It is built of pure brick, brick and more brick & has lasted for 400 years....however it has foundations on soil & costs £1500 per month to run, the wind whistles through the interior doors...

Every generation is different, but they are all much of a muchness in the big scheme of things!!!
A very pragmatic viewpoint and most of it fair play in the grand scheme of things. I just think OP is more shocked someone finished that woodwork and walked away from it thinking "job done". Everything can be fixed, of course.
It's a shock now, they're expecting a shiny new perfect house. Once moved in, and thier puppies have puked and pooed on the new carpet it'll just be normal/character/after dinner story, delete as applicable.

blueg33

35,946 posts

225 months

Monday 13th March 2023
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It could easily be a setting out problem, but occasionally stairs can be made the wrong size. Whichever, what I don’t get is why the chippy didn’t stop.

Zarco

17,877 posts

210 months

Monday 13th March 2023
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
It could easily be a setting out problem, but occasionally stairs can be made the wrong size. Whichever, what I don’t get is why the chippy didn’t stop.
'Not my job mate' and he's on a price to complete architraves.


Mr Whippy

29,049 posts

242 months

Monday 13th March 2023
quotequote all
Promised Land said:
If that’s the case then it goes right back to the joists being fitted, I doubt the stair well is in the wrong place, I always check and check again when setting out stair wells when joisting as if it’s wrong it’s a major job to rectify as it won’t get spotted until first fix stage which is too late to alter anything without huge costs.

From experience I’d say the wall the other side of the door lining is in the wrong place or worst still the house footprint is less than the drawing shows, (wall to the right of door lining is correct distance from the external wall that side of plot and the stair well is correct distance from the opposite side of the plot resulting in the door lining being squeezed in, not uncommon at all I’m afraid) if that’s the case it’s groundworkers that have got it wrong but this is all speculation as without being in the plot with the house type drawings non of us know where the problem lies.

(All the above is referring to the virtual tour pic, ie wall to right of doorway, it looks like the OP has bought a plot opposite hand to the virtual tour pic above.)

Saying that I have seen dozens of plots second fixed with archs sat on top of newel caps like that.

OP, you should try and get hold of the first fix drawings, then measure the stair well, the wall the other side yourself but remember the first fix drawings usually go from face block work so you need to take about 35mm off the sizes.

Any more plots the same house type at first fix or further on the site you can stick your head in as well to see?

Could just be one joiner has read the drawing wrong or it could be a bigger problem with drawings, not uncommon.

We have had plots built the opposite hand to what they should have been before, drains in the slabs and doorways, windows in and all wrong. You’d be amazed what cock ups you get on site.





Edited by Promised Land on Saturday 11th March 21:48
How is this even possible wrt groundworks?

Groundworks manage to be perfect when timber framing otherwise you’d need a unique frame per house.

Doesn’t anyone just ‘double check’ once the first blocks go down?

Or even have surveyors marking out all block work points on top of foundation pouring?


I’ve seen all these things happening on site, so can only assume some developers just leave lowly contractors determining the final shape/dimensions of a house with no checks?! Staggering!

Elysium

13,833 posts

188 months

Monday 13th March 2023
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wolfracesonic said:
Toaster Pilot said:
The window thing is sorted now and looks good, you’d struggle to tell it’d ever been anything else.



That would have been better with the half newel taken up to the same height as the head architrave, then the newel cap fixed, maybe a solution if you raise the matter with the builders.
yes

That's the easy fix. Just extend the newel post so it finishes higher than the architrave and it will look OK.

skeeterm5

3,356 posts

189 months

Monday 13th March 2023
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What I can’t understand is that who ever did that walked away thinking that they had done an ok job. Surely they must have thought something wasn’t right?

skeeterm5

3,356 posts

189 months

Monday 13th March 2023
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Deleted double post