Seller declining viewings

[Flying machine]

Lanby said:

Yorkshire_Biker said:

Having had one buyer pull out 2 days before completion in Novermber and another pull out this morning 1 week before completion - on a vacant property with no onward chain I can see why I would now insist on only buyers with cash in hand or an agreed completion date on their own property.
I'm tired of getting messed around by buyers for months on end.

We were in the process of buying a seaside holiday home few years ago to spend more time together and during the process our little boy died; it kind of took away our requirement for a holiday home so we pulled out.

But under normal circumstances I cannot understand why anybody would pull out so far along the purchasing process - what reasons did they give?

Lanby, that's so sad. I'm sorry to hear that. I agree that it is odd though for people to pull out so close to completion.

Having sold three houses now, IMO/E everyone is a liar when it comes to buying/selling houses. Having an EA filter out those who are not in a proceedable position sounds like a great idea, but they don't seem to be very good at it, and of course time wasters/dreamers/nosey people will just lie to an agent regarding their position. I just don't understand why someone would waste their time viewing other people's houses for fun - sounds utterly awful to me! I sold early last year (thank goodness!) and accepted a slightly lower offer on the basis that the buyers were 'cash', no house to sell, keen to move, and they agreed to exchange very quickly. This was of course all complete nonsense. Cash was in fact a house to sell, which eventually came out, and they were part of a chain. We stuck with it for some reason and got so fed up that we had to suggest that we might pull out and re-market if they didn't exchange soon - almost 5 months after accepting their offer. One month later, all done and dusted, but a very painful process.

I'm sat in a rented house just waiting for the right thing to come up, but the market is slow, with little housing stock, and what there is includes lots of over priced mediocre and sometimes poor quality housing. Interesting to hear above that sellers don't clean their houses for viewings - I've seen this in 2 houses that I have viewed recently and I have to say that I find it a strange thing to overlook.

[Louis Balfour]

Slow.Patrol said:

Louis Balfour said:

Basically yes.

We really need to look at the property market and how to make it more liquid again.

I'm not sure we do.

We have had decades of Governments using the housing market to boost the economy, by interfering with various aspects. We need to return to houses being homes and not an investment.

That's a different conversation.

Currently, buying and selling homes is more hassle than I remember it ever being. And I've been doing it since the 1980s. It needs to be made easier.

[rah1888]

Louis Balfour said:

Slow.Patrol said:

Louis Balfour said:

Basically yes.

We really need to look at the property market and how to make it more liquid again.

I'm not sure we do.

We have had decades of Governments using the housing market to boost the economy, by interfering with various aspects. We need to return to houses being homes and not an investment.

That's a different conversation.

Currently, buying and selling homes is more hassle than I remember it ever being. And I've been doing it since the 1980s. It needs to be made easier.

This isn't applicable for the entire country, but a big part of the cause of the housing market being so illiquid is the stamp duty. Relatively modest houses are attracting stamp duty bills of £50k/£60k, meaning people are staying in their current homes for longer, resulting in a lack of stock and causing prices to remain high.

[Louis Balfour]

rah1888 said:

Louis Balfour said:

Slow.Patrol said:

Louis Balfour said:

Basically yes.

We really need to look at the property market and how to make it more liquid again.

I'm not sure we do.

We have had decades of Governments using the housing market to boost the economy, by interfering with various aspects. We need to return to houses being homes and not an investment.

That's a different conversation.

Currently, buying and selling homes is more hassle than I remember it ever being. And I've been doing it since the 1980s. It needs to be made easier.

This isn't applicable for the entire country, but a big part of the cause of the housing market being so illiquid is the stamp duty. Relatively modest houses are attracting stamp duty bills of £50k/£60k, meaning people are staying in their current homes for longer, resulting in a lack of stock and causing prices to remain high.

It's a fair point. The SDLT is one of the reasons we won't move imminently.

[_-XXXX-_]

dundarach said:

If I ever wanted to sell again, I'd make absolutely certain they ONLY sent fully qualified people.

(I'd even be tempted not to have anyone from within a mile)

Bunch of nosy fkers

Really?! In the days of Rightmove anyone can see what they want, surely? Every house I've purchased has started with viewing online.

[borrowdale]

_-XXXX-_ said:

Really?! In the days of Rightmove anyone can see what they want, surely? Every house I've purchased has started with viewing online.

The problem (if you're serious) is that the Rightmove pictures usually present an "idealised view" of the property, and less attractive or "problem" areas will be photographed sympathetically or not at all. e.g. in the garden any overlooking windows will be cropped out. In one property I looked at there were no photos of upstairs, which turned out to be because it was in a pitched roofspace which made the rooms unusable by tall people.

I can see how a seller may think you're a timewaster if you view a property and there's a deal-breaker like that which was hidden from the listing.

EAs photographing properties towards the more expensive end of the market seem to have very good rectilinear wide angle lenses now, so that rooms/outdoor areas look large without that distorted "wide angle" look. It can be quite surprising when visiting in person how small it feels in comparison.

Example of the difference - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectilinear_lens#/me...

Edited by borrowdale on Tuesday 14th March 14:30

Edited by borrowdale on Tuesday 14th March 14:32

[OutInTheShed]

Unreal said:

You can have plenty of viewers if you don't qualify them but it's true that sellers often measure estate agency quality by the number of viewings they arrange. That can bite back if those unqualified viewers give lots of negative feedback.

People who would buy before selling are a tiny minority mostly restricted to the top end of the market.

I think the number of people who buy without selling might be more than many people think.

A surprising number have a lot of cash sat around.
Another significant number will rent out their current house.
Then there's a bunch who've already sold and are in rented at the moment.

I don't think it's just the top of the market, but it's probably more common in certain corners of the market, like people moving to the seaside or something, rather than ordinary homes in deepest suburbia.

[Oldred_V8S]

lizardbrain said:

We were advised by agent to accept all viewings, even from those who were just nosey.

Depends on the market, but apparently number of viewings is something to boast about, and helps get the best price out of the serious viewers

That sounds like desperate EA BS to me.
A house that had a lot of viewings but hasn't had a sniff of a potential sale smacks of something wrong to me. Price, condition etc.

[_-XXXX-_]

borrowdale said:

_-XXXX-_ said:

Really?! In the days of Rightmove anyone can see what they want, surely? Every house I've purchased has started with viewing online.

The problem (if you're serious) is that the Rightmove pictures usually present an "idealised view" of the property, and less attractive or "problem" areas will be photographed sympathetically or not at all. e.g. in the garden any overlooking windows will be cropped out. In one property I looked at there were no photos of upstairs, which turned out to be because it was in a pitched roofspace which made the rooms unusable by tall people.

I can see how a seller may think you're a timewaster if you view a property and there's a deal-breaker like that which was hidden from the listing.

EAs photographing properties towards the more expensive end of the market seem to have very good rectilinear wide angle lenses now, so that rooms/outdoor areas look large without that distorted "wide angle" look. It can be quite surprising when visiting in person how small it feels in comparison.

Example of the difference - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectilinear_lens#/me...

That was kind of my point! Rightmove filters out the nosey lot from around the corner! A house is the most expensive thing most people buy/sell. You're going to get viewers who won't end ip as buyers. To flip it, how about the viewer who isn't on the market(yet) will only consider selling if they like your possibly ideal property?! They are actually avoiding wasting other people's time by not marketing their property...yet....

Edited by _-XXXX-_ on Tuesday 14th March 16:41

[Gladers01]

paulwirral said:

In an ideal world people wouldn’t waste others time by window shopping but you really can’t tell sometimes . I had my house up for sale a couple of years ago and got a phone call from the agents asking if I could do a short notice viewing as the lady was only in the area for a couple of days and was returning home the next day .
I nearly told them to do one , but , just in case I agreed . A quick clean up and the viewer turned up and spent 15 mins telling me what a nice house it was .
I was kicking myself for going to the effort but 3 weeks later she was back for a second viewing and gave me a good offer that completed a few months later .
That said I also had a load of clowns who clearly were wasting my time .

A similar thing happened to us when a chap knocked on the door early one morning and said he was acting on behalf of a cash buyer based in Spain and had arranged a viewing via the estate agent, after the viewing I called to update the estate agent and they said they'd never heard of him. About 2 weeks later the mystery buyer (based in Spain) showed up with an appointment this time and offered close to the asking price and was hoping to bypass the EA and do a private deal, whilst under the EA contract I stuck to the asking price as there was plenty of interest and sold shortly afterwards to another buyer.

The viewings are best carried out during the EA office hours by the EA themselves which included Saturday mornings, the viewings I did myself outside of these times were generally time wasters and day dreamers in my experience

[lizardbrain]

Oldred_V8S said:

lizardbrain said:

We were advised by agent to accept all viewings, even from those who were just nosey.

Depends on the market, but apparently number of viewings is something to boast about, and helps get the best price out of the serious viewers

That sounds like desperate EA BS to me.
A house that had a lot of viewings but hasn't had a sniff of a potential sale smacks of something wrong to me. Price, condition etc.

Yes agreed. But if there is obviously offers forthcoming, it probably does help.

[Byker28i]

_-XXXX-_ said:

borrowdale said:

_-XXXX-_ said:

Really?! In the days of Rightmove anyone can see what they want, surely? Every house I've purchased has started with viewing online.

The problem (if you're serious) is that the Rightmove pictures usually present an "idealised view" of the property, and less attractive or "problem" areas will be photographed sympathetically or not at all. e.g. in the garden any overlooking windows will be cropped out. In one property I looked at there were no photos of upstairs, which turned out to be because it was in a pitched roofspace which made the rooms unusable by tall people.

I can see how a seller may think you're a timewaster if you view a property and there's a deal-breaker like that which was hidden from the listing.

We've spotted a couple, gone to look at the outside and spotted issues. One next door to a motor business, with poor access to the house, that otherwise looked great. No point wasting anyones time if you haven't scouted the area and house before hand.

As for cleaning, it's a home, I'm not expecting it to be spotless, nor care about decoration as mostly it'll get changed as everyones taste is different.

[AB]

OutInTheShed said:

I think the number of people who buy without selling might be more than many people think.

A surprising number have a lot of cash sat around.
Another significant number will rent out their current house.
Then there's a bunch who've already sold and are in rented at the moment.

I don't think it's just the top of the market, but it's probably more common in certain corners of the market, like people moving to the seaside or something, rather than ordinary homes in deepest suburbia.

I found this out recently and it surprised me.

If I was selling now, I think I'd let anyone who wanted to view do so.

I know a story of someone who had no real intention of moving, certainly not to the area in question, spotting a for sale sign on a house they liked the look of, popped into the EA requesting a viewing and being given a viewing having admitted they weren't on the market etc.

Walked in looking a bit young and scruffy and unable to afford the remortgage payments and offering £1.8m, genuine straight cash purchase the next day.

[Mr Whippy]

Louis Balfour said:

borrowdale said:

gfreeman said:

Your first sentence says it all…

I can see that. But there's a difference between "I want to move house" and "I found a house that I like so I'm moving".

When we bought this place, we had two houses to sell and neither was on the market. But that was in 2004 and raising finance in tricky situations was very much easier, as was selling houses and being confident that the buyers would be able to raise a mortgage. We got two houses sold in three weeks and completed the purchase in about five.

In the current climate, if I were a motivated seller, I would not want to hear from anyone who hadn't got a sale agreed on their current place.

You could of course demonstrate that you don't need to sell in order to buy. For example if you've enough on deposit that you could raise temporary finance to buy. Or better still buy all cash.

So the potential buyer also wants a buyer of their home to have viewers already agreed a sale. And so on.

You can see why the market just stalls at times like this.

FTBers priced out, waiting it out, or mortgage costed out… and all existing owners unable to get the ball rolling with a potential buyer because agents are advising them to not fo any viewings.


Quite frankly I’d find it an utter waste of my time and the time of a buyer interested in my house, just so I can then look at another house… at a time when quite evidently 80% of the stuff out there is over-priced or tatty crap when you actually get a look.

Then the survey. Then a lenders valuation survey.


OK by having possible buyers ‘ready to go’ you’re hopefully going to have a quicker time of it… but then those buyers probably know their strong position and want more money off… so you’re no better off really.

[Unreal]

AB said:

OutInTheShed said:

I think the number of people who buy without selling might be more than many people think.

A surprising number have a lot of cash sat around.
Another significant number will rent out their current house.
Then there's a bunch who've already sold and are in rented at the moment.

I don't think it's just the top of the market, but it's probably more common in certain corners of the market, like people moving to the seaside or something, rather than ordinary homes in deepest suburbia.

I found this out recently and it surprised me.

If I was selling now, I think I'd let anyone who wanted to view do so.

I know a story of someone who had no real intention of moving, certainly not to the area in question, spotting a for sale sign on a house they liked the look of, popped into the EA requesting a viewing and being given a viewing having admitted they weren't on the market etc.

Walked in looking a bit young and scruffy and unable to afford the remortgage payments and offering £1.8m, genuine straight cash purchase the next day.

Yes, we all know a story like that. The other version is the scruffy bloke who is ignored in the Ferrari showroom and then goes back the next day in his new Lambo to tell them he was going to buy two Ferraris in cash - one for himself and one for his wife. The original story had him owning a big building business and the newer versions involve tech entrepreneurs.

I've been a sleeping partner in an estate agency business for five years and never seen anything like that in real life. I posted on another thread that anyone who expresses an interest is properly qualified. What they look like is irrelevant. In my experience scruffy millionaires occasionally drive crappy cars and wear a Sekonda but none of them live at a postcode at odds with the properties they're looking at or are staying at the Travelodge whilst checking out country estates.

I can try and find out percentages but my guess would be that less than 5% of purchasers are cash purchasers who are retaining their existing property.

[AB]

Unreal said:

Yes, we all know a story like that.

but none of them live at a postcode at odds with the properties they're looking at

I can try and find out percentages but my guess would be that less than 5% of purchasers are cash purchasers who are retaining their existing property.

100% of the above is true in this example, so it does happen. They even retained the place that was worth 20% of the purchase price of the newer one.

It does happen, and this is why if I was selling I wouldn't be picky about who came to look, you could be screening that one person immediately. I'd be livid if an EA did that to me.

[Byker28i]

Unreal said:

I can try and find out percentages but my guess would be that less than 5% of purchasers are cash purchasers who are retaining their existing property.

Probably slightly higher in areas popular with second home buyers if you believe the welsh govt

[Red9zero]

Byker28i said:

Unreal said:

I can try and find out percentages but my guess would be that less than 5% of purchasers are cash purchasers who are retaining their existing property.

Probably slightly higher in areas popular with second home buyers if you believe the welsh govt

The last two houses to sell on the road my Mother lives on (village on the edge of Exmoor) were second homes. There is another up at the moment, but they are trying to sell to locals. We will see how that goes.

Edited by Red9zero on Tuesday 14th March 19:01

[Wacky Racer]

borrowdale said:

I wasn't really looking to move, but we spotted a house on Rightmove that really appealed. On since at least November last year, two agents' listings, premium listing and featured property, recently reduced twice by 50K each time.... i.e. all the hallmarks of a degree of urgency,

I called one of the agents to arrange a viewing, but the seller has given strict instructions that only people with a house on the market and a buyer lined up can view!

Is that a normal thing to do?

The vendor can do what they want (within reason).

Twenty five years ago I was selling our very large (ex mill owners mansion) and over two years (Without exaggeration) twenty odd "viewers", 90% of them who were time wasters, just wanting an afternoon out...the final straw was when a family with three snotty kids turned up in the porch and I said "Before you come in, are you in a position to make an immediate offer" and the man replied "Well we will have a good look around and if we like it we might decide to put ours up for sale". Well, I exploded and sent them packing with a mouthful of expletives"

The next day I rang the estate agent and told them under no circumstances were they to send anybody round before vetting their status first, and make sure they had no house to sell.

The house sold six weeks later for the full asking price to a couple from France,

[Unreal]

AB said:

100% of the above is true in this example, so it does happen. They even retained the place that was worth 20% of the purchase price of the newer one.

It does happen, and this is why if I was selling I wouldn't be picky about who came to look, you could be screening that one person immediately. I'd be livid if an EA did that to me.

Who will be screened out would be agreed before the contract was signed so there would be no misunderstandings and no basis for you to be livid. We might agree to your instructions or we might not want to play those odds depending on a range of factors including the value of the property. I haven't known a single vendor of a higher value house who hasn't been 'picky' about who may view. My word would be selective but we probably mean the same thing.