Plumbing question - smells
Discussion
SistersofPercy said:
Anyway, plumber will be called in the morning.
I shall update because it might well come in useful looking at how many of you have had similar issues.
Speaking as a plumber, you really want one of those leak detection specialists rather than a bathroom fitter type.I shall update because it might well come in useful looking at how many of you have had similar issues.
Panamax said:
If you leave one of the covers closest to your house propped open (even a quarter of an inch), does it stop the smell in your house? I'm laying a 50:50 bet that it does.
(The point here is that when you have the cover open and stick your hosepipe down there isn't a problem. But as soon as you close the cover there is because the air movement changes. I'm not a drainage expert but I've spent more than a few minutes with my head under inspection covers and fishing around with garden implements.....)
I’ll give it a go, have to fashion some kind of grid because I’d imagine newts would be in it at even half an inch given I can’t move for them at present (The point here is that when you have the cover open and stick your hosepipe down there isn't a problem. But as soon as you close the cover there is because the air movement changes. I'm not a drainage expert but I've spent more than a few minutes with my head under inspection covers and fishing around with garden implements.....)
Pflanzgarten said:
Speaking as a plumber, you really want one of those leak detection specialists rather than a bathroom fitter type.
Apparently the guy we’ve been recommended can walk in, sniff and know exactly what’s what in the words of my ‘boiler plumber’ so will speak to him first. Bit of a shortage of decent reliable plumbers here unfortunately but I’ll do some research into leak detection as well tomorrow. Ta. pocketspring said:
You sure it isn't the other half? 
He’s not allowed in there, he pollutes his own room the advantage of the kids leaving home is he can have his bathroom and I’ll keep mine hahaTo be fair though, even he doesn’t smell as bad as that room does sometimes (though the time he had a kangaroo steak probably came close)
SistersofPercy said:
Most recently replaced the trap on the shower and that seemed to work….. until 4am this morning when the smell was so bad through the open door it woke me up with a headache.
You didn't replace it with one of these traps did you?https://www.screwfix.com/p/flomasta-space-saving-s...
They are bloody useless for keeping out smells from shared soil stacks
B'stard Child said:
You didn't replace it with one of these traps did you?
https://www.screwfix.com/p/flomasta-space-saving-s...
They are bloody useless for keeping out smells from shared soil stacks
No, that was similar to what was on it first, hence the eureka moment in thinking we’d found it. New trap was quite deep and holds back a fair bit of water. https://www.screwfix.com/p/flomasta-space-saving-s...
They are bloody useless for keeping out smells from shared soil stacks
I have a suspicion, given the newish trap on the sink, the new connector on the loo and the skirting around the shower base that had already had the seal cut before we got there, that someone has gone through all this before and replaced all the obvious without solving it.
As the house was a short term rental for years really before we bought it nobody has really looked into it properly I suspect, choosing quick fixes to keep tenants happy.
Going to lift the side manhole slightly in the morning and give it a week. It’s down the side of the house and nicely out of the way. In theory we could permanently vent that if it works.
Just thinking out loud here but I wonder if smoke bombs might help?
I'm thinking if you could put some smoke bombs into the drains then it might help discover if there's a leak somewhere else. I'd be tempted to try emptying a toilet bowl of water, put the smoke bomb in the now-cleared u-bend and then sealing up the bowl with a childs football or similar so as to help force the smoke in the other direction and see if/where it comes out.
I'm thinking if you could put some smoke bombs into the drains then it might help discover if there's a leak somewhere else. I'd be tempted to try emptying a toilet bowl of water, put the smoke bomb in the now-cleared u-bend and then sealing up the bowl with a childs football or similar so as to help force the smoke in the other direction and see if/where it comes out.
tux850 said:
Just thinking out loud here but I wonder if smoke bombs might help?
I'm thinking if you could put some smoke bombs into the drains then it might help discover if there's a leak somewhere else. I'd be tempted to try emptying a toilet bowl of water, put the smoke bomb in the now-cleared u-bend and then sealing up the bowl with a childs football or similar so as to help force the smoke in the other direction and see if/where it comes out.
You bung and pressure test for drains then it's just a case of isolating sections.I'm thinking if you could put some smoke bombs into the drains then it might help discover if there's a leak somewhere else. I'd be tempted to try emptying a toilet bowl of water, put the smoke bomb in the now-cleared u-bend and then sealing up the bowl with a childs football or similar so as to help force the smoke in the other direction and see if/where it comes out.
SistersofPercy said:
I take it the shower drains via the boxing under the rad to the box with the durgo in it?
Is the durgo at the top of the box it's in or is it close to the floor? If it's at or close to the height of any of the connections it will smell.
As above, it'll be either the durgo being too low, the box not sufficiently vented or the durgo not working properly.
My bet is that it is lower than the wash hand basin trap going by that photo. Or worse still, lower than the raised shower tray.
Random suggestion, are the manholes around the property all accessible or have they got earth/grass etc on them? If you lift all the lids and clean away any debris (from the lids), this may also balance your system out. If it's an older property you may have a vent by one of the manholes - check if this is blocked.
Edited by ben5575 on Friday 24th March 16:08
- I'm convinced it's something to do with air movement in the drains.
- I note the durgo needed to be pushed back into place. That might be a sign pressure in the drains (as opposed to vacuum) had simply popped the whole thing out.
Shower does drain along under the radiator. This is the durgo in the boxing, it is higher than the sink. I’ve even stuck fresh disks in there but the smell has never seemed to directly come from that box to me.
Interesting you say about manholes, cleared around them earlier and have now slightly propped one. One is in grass so pulled everything from around it.
Smell was worse than ever in the early hours again. Genuinely don’t know how he sleeps through it. The door was closed and I could smell it. When I got up it had gone again and remains gone now.
Leaving manhole open over the weekend so will see if that helps. Been told plumber we have is amazing with leaks so calling him Monday morning.Ended up distracted today clearing invasive weed from the pond and only just stopped.
Interesting you say about manholes, cleared around them earlier and have now slightly propped one. One is in grass so pulled everything from around it.
Smell was worse than ever in the early hours again. Genuinely don’t know how he sleeps through it. The door was closed and I could smell it. When I got up it had gone again and remains gone now.
Leaving manhole open over the weekend so will see if that helps. Been told plumber we have is amazing with leaks so calling him Monday morning.Ended up distracted today clearing invasive weed from the pond and only just stopped.
They've designed the drainage so the bathroom vent stack is the "head of the drain", that's your main breather for the foul drainage.
So if there's no issues there (no smells around the bathroom and kitchen you can simply isolate all that side of the drains (I know you've mentioned food smells coming back up from the kitchen but ignore that it's a red herring).
So you then only have an incredibly short system to check. You can bung that leg and start building up the pressure. If it blows one of the traps (perhaps a small pedestal one behind a basin or whatever) you can swap out for an anti siphon one.
Or if it's a split in the toilet pan connector some squirt liquid will find it.
It's really very, very basic stuff. In Scotland we used to have to do this test for sign off on all new builds but you don't in England so things can go awry for years as yours plainly has.
All of us can guess over the internet but in reality it's all guesswork until you get a pressure test on-I'd need to be at the site to find it but I reckon I'd find it within half an hour if I was.
If the worst comes to the worst and the siphon pressure on the en suite stack is too great you can simply extend the stack up and out the roof and have a true vented stack. You'll need to hide it amongst your tiled bathroom which might always look like an after thought but nothing is unsolvable.
So if there's no issues there (no smells around the bathroom and kitchen you can simply isolate all that side of the drains (I know you've mentioned food smells coming back up from the kitchen but ignore that it's a red herring).
So you then only have an incredibly short system to check. You can bung that leg and start building up the pressure. If it blows one of the traps (perhaps a small pedestal one behind a basin or whatever) you can swap out for an anti siphon one.
Or if it's a split in the toilet pan connector some squirt liquid will find it.
It's really very, very basic stuff. In Scotland we used to have to do this test for sign off on all new builds but you don't in England so things can go awry for years as yours plainly has.
All of us can guess over the internet but in reality it's all guesswork until you get a pressure test on-I'd need to be at the site to find it but I reckon I'd find it within half an hour if I was.
If the worst comes to the worst and the siphon pressure on the en suite stack is too great you can simply extend the stack up and out the roof and have a true vented stack. You'll need to hide it amongst your tiled bathroom which might always look like an after thought but nothing is unsolvable.
dobly said:
^ as above, your air intake needs to be extended to be outside the building envelope, and ideally above the height of your roof gutters. Having it inside the house is always asking for trouble - why a house built this century has this is beyond me.
Good point - I had assumed the SVP was the kitchen stack (which would make a lot more sense tbh)All we need now is for the OP to snip the roof plan off google maps - or similar. Hopefully high enough resolution to see a stack (or lack of)
TLDR....try and get the system smoke tested or leak detector tested by someone that does this stuff for a living.
These issues are always for a simple
reason but finding the source can mean demolishing your entire house. So they can also be a fkng nightmare.
We had a persistent but intermittent pong eminating from somewhere in the new downstairs extension. Side/entrances hall extension with utility and downstairs toilet
Tried everything mentioned in the thread so far, even had the drain surveyed and they could've see anything.
Eventually did my own pressurised smoke bomb test.
I fashioned a manhole cover out of plywood with a spigot, then duct taped a leaf blower to said spigot. Taped plastic bags over both soils stacks then used towels to bung up the drain downstream of the manhole on the drive. Then wedged some timber across the middle of the inspection chamber, set off a handful of smoke testing bombs, put my heath robinson pressurisation device in place and fired up the leaf blower.
I soon spotted orange smoke coming from under the floor of the entrance hall extension. It turns out the builders hadn't properly jointed the soil pipes as they dropped down under the new floor, w
kers.
Anyway access was possible via cutting an access panel out of the adjacent utility room as that had been dug down lower but it was impossible to get in and dig out and fully reset the joint without pulling up the newly laid floor, instead I dumped a huge amount of postcrete over the area and sprinkled liberally with water, thus creating a concrete plug.
A bit of a bodge maybe but it's been totally fine for getting on for 7years now.
These issues are always for a simple
reason but finding the source can mean demolishing your entire house. So they can also be a fkng nightmare.
We had a persistent but intermittent pong eminating from somewhere in the new downstairs extension. Side/entrances hall extension with utility and downstairs toilet
Tried everything mentioned in the thread so far, even had the drain surveyed and they could've see anything.
Eventually did my own pressurised smoke bomb test.
I fashioned a manhole cover out of plywood with a spigot, then duct taped a leaf blower to said spigot. Taped plastic bags over both soils stacks then used towels to bung up the drain downstream of the manhole on the drive. Then wedged some timber across the middle of the inspection chamber, set off a handful of smoke testing bombs, put my heath robinson pressurisation device in place and fired up the leaf blower.
I soon spotted orange smoke coming from under the floor of the entrance hall extension. It turns out the builders hadn't properly jointed the soil pipes as they dropped down under the new floor, w
kers.Anyway access was possible via cutting an access panel out of the adjacent utility room as that had been dug down lower but it was impossible to get in and dig out and fully reset the joint without pulling up the newly laid floor, instead I dumped a huge amount of postcrete over the area and sprinkled liberally with water, thus creating a concrete plug.
A bit of a bodge maybe but it's been totally fine for getting on for 7years now.
Edited by dave_s13 on Saturday 25th March 07:49
Can you confirm that the external soil stack has a mesh or some other device to keep it from getting blocked?
Is there a chance that on windy days there’s positive pressure in that stack and it’s pushing foul air past a trap?
Do any of the sink/basin/shower drains gurgle on longer than it seems like they should?
Is there a chance that on windy days there’s positive pressure in that stack and it’s pushing foul air past a trap?
Do any of the sink/basin/shower drains gurgle on longer than it seems like they should?
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