Trades daily rates
Discussion
Not saying the numbers look bang on, but i've got a windowcleaner I deal with and he makes £50k net.
On his own though, has been through employees a few times and lost them to self-employment...as some have said, they just get the gear and go it alone, the ones that work hard aren't mugs, they'll know what they're taking for the boss.
On his own though, has been through employees a few times and lost them to self-employment...as some have said, they just get the gear and go it alone, the ones that work hard aren't mugs, they'll know what they're taking for the boss.
clockworks said:
I live in West Cornwall, where average wages are quite low, but tradesmen seem to get away with London prices because a lot of their work is for incomers and second home owners.
We are currently looking at getting the lounge gutted and redone - new ceiling including loft insulation (currently fibre board and polystyrene tile), a 2.7 metre stud wall built, coving, skim 2 walls, put in 6 downlights and a couple of sockets, sand and refinish parquet floor, sand and prime skirtings and architraves. We will do the final painting ourselves.
I had already priced up the materials at Bradfords - around £1300 without any discounts.
Chap came yesterday, small local building firm, big enough to be VAT registered. He said it would take 3 weeks, but they might get it done in 2. 2 or 3 people on site, plus plasterer (2 days) and sparks (1 day) as required.
His estimate (written quote to follow) was £11,000, plus VAT. To me, being generous, that means he's charging almost £10k for 3 weeks' work by 3 people. I can see a skilled tradesman wanting to earn a grand a week, but charging out one or two labourers at the same rate seems excessive. Massive profit if he gets it done in 2 weeks.
Had another chap round today, and asked for a quote excluding the floor, which we will do ourselves with hired equipment. He said he would easily do it in 2 weeks with his labourer, plus 2 days max for his plasterer. No estimate, written quote to follow. Hoping his quote comes in at a lot less.
We got the quote from the second builder last week. He apologised for the delay, saying he'd been waiting to hear back from the plasterer. Asked him to requote, as we wanted an extra alcove in the stud wall, and would supply our own plasterer.We are currently looking at getting the lounge gutted and redone - new ceiling including loft insulation (currently fibre board and polystyrene tile), a 2.7 metre stud wall built, coving, skim 2 walls, put in 6 downlights and a couple of sockets, sand and refinish parquet floor, sand and prime skirtings and architraves. We will do the final painting ourselves.
I had already priced up the materials at Bradfords - around £1300 without any discounts.
Chap came yesterday, small local building firm, big enough to be VAT registered. He said it would take 3 weeks, but they might get it done in 2. 2 or 3 people on site, plus plasterer (2 days) and sparks (1 day) as required.
His estimate (written quote to follow) was £11,000, plus VAT. To me, being generous, that means he's charging almost £10k for 3 weeks' work by 3 people. I can see a skilled tradesman wanting to earn a grand a week, but charging out one or two labourers at the same rate seems excessive. Massive profit if he gets it done in 2 weeks.
Had another chap round today, and asked for a quote excluding the floor, which we will do ourselves with hired equipment. He said he would easily do it in 2 weeks with his labourer, plus 2 days max for his plasterer. No estimate, written quote to follow. Hoping his quote comes in at a lot less.
Quote came back at the weekend - £3640. Seems reasonable. Start date agreed for 30th May.
He will complete the basic build, including first fix electrics. Our plasterer (family) will spend a weekend here, then I will fix the coving, a bit of skirting, decorate, second fix electrics, and refinish the parquet flooring. It will take longer, and I'll have to take a week or two off work, but we'll save around £7k off the original quote.
People are vastly underestimating the real running cost of putting a skilled equipped tradesman on the road. When i worked for a national company to put an extra tech out on the road giving them a take home of £22k (a while ago now) actually cost our branch at least £81k a year not including admin and accountancy costs when all was said and done.
Self employed tradesmen streamline that and make things considerably more efficient, they lose out on a lot of benefits and protections employees get.
If you are doing things right for example as a spark doing solar, ev chargers, alarms you would have 30 grand of tools and test equipment inside a 35 grand van, you have to spend at leasyt a couple of weeks a year paying for training, assesments, equipment calibration, at least 8 hours Admin a week, an accountant, professional indemnity insurance, tool insurance, tool wear, tool theft where the insurance falls short, snaggings and callbacks, jobs not going to plan, last minute cancellations, other trades f
king you up, customers causing you problems on a job by changing things after you started, materials not turning up, returning materials, doing quotations and chasing suppliers for current prices is unpaid time which incurs expenses.
slooooooooooowww trade counters. No pension.
Tyres, servicing, fuel, repairs, i am minimum 300 quid a week just in running costs for 1 large van.
At the end of a hard year charging £350 a day its quite possible to realistically only get the benefit of £140 to 160 a day of that.
No one is putting a gun to your head to pay trades. If its so easy and lucrative and you are so smart buy some used tools and do it yourself, then get a van and do it for others for "easy money"
Self employed tradesmen streamline that and make things considerably more efficient, they lose out on a lot of benefits and protections employees get.
If you are doing things right for example as a spark doing solar, ev chargers, alarms you would have 30 grand of tools and test equipment inside a 35 grand van, you have to spend at leasyt a couple of weeks a year paying for training, assesments, equipment calibration, at least 8 hours Admin a week, an accountant, professional indemnity insurance, tool insurance, tool wear, tool theft where the insurance falls short, snaggings and callbacks, jobs not going to plan, last minute cancellations, other trades f
king you up, customers causing you problems on a job by changing things after you started, materials not turning up, returning materials, doing quotations and chasing suppliers for current prices is unpaid time which incurs expenses. slooooooooooowww trade counters. No pension.
Tyres, servicing, fuel, repairs, i am minimum 300 quid a week just in running costs for 1 large van.
At the end of a hard year charging £350 a day its quite possible to realistically only get the benefit of £140 to 160 a day of that.
No one is putting a gun to your head to pay trades. If its so easy and lucrative and you are so smart buy some used tools and do it yourself, then get a van and do it for others for "easy money"
Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Wednesday 19th April 09:12
OldGermanHeaps said:
People are vastly underestimating the real running cost of putting a skilled equipped tradesman on the road. When i worked for a national company to put an extra tech out on the road giving them a take home of £22k (a while ago now) actually cost our branch at least £81k a year not including admin and accountancy costs when all was said and done.
Self employed tradesmen streamline that and make things considerably more efficient, they lose out on a lot of benefits and protections employees get.
If you are doing things right for example as a spark doing solar, ev chargers, alarms you would have 30 grand of tools and test equipment inside a 35 grand van, you have to spend at leasyt a couple of weeks a year paying for training, assesments, equipment calibration, at least 8 hours Admin a week, an accountant, professional indemnity insurance, tool insurance, tool wear, tool theft where the insurance falls short, snaggings and callbacks, jobs not going to plan, last minute cancellations, other trades fking you up, customers causing you problems on a job by changing things after you started, materials not turning up, returning materials, doing quotations and chasing suppliers for current prices is unpaid time which incurs expenses.
slooooooooooowww trade counters. No pension.
Tyres, servicing, fuel, repairs, i am minimum 300 quid a week just in running costs for 1 large van.
At the end of a hard year charging £350 a day its quite possible to realistically only get the benefit of £140 to 160 a day of that.
No one is putting a gun to your head to pay trades. If its so easy and lucrative and you are so smart buy some used tools and do it yourself, then get a van and do it for others for "easy money"
100% - there is so much more to it, plus contingency and you need to make some profit for your business as well (otherwise why run your own business at all?!).Self employed tradesmen streamline that and make things considerably more efficient, they lose out on a lot of benefits and protections employees get.
If you are doing things right for example as a spark doing solar, ev chargers, alarms you would have 30 grand of tools and test equipment inside a 35 grand van, you have to spend at leasyt a couple of weeks a year paying for training, assesments, equipment calibration, at least 8 hours Admin a week, an accountant, professional indemnity insurance, tool insurance, tool wear, tool theft where the insurance falls short, snaggings and callbacks, jobs not going to plan, last minute cancellations, other trades f
king you up, customers causing you problems on a job by changing things after you started, materials not turning up, returning materials, doing quotations and chasing suppliers for current prices is unpaid time which incurs expenses. slooooooooooowww trade counters. No pension.
Tyres, servicing, fuel, repairs, i am minimum 300 quid a week just in running costs for 1 large van.
At the end of a hard year charging £350 a day its quite possible to realistically only get the benefit of £140 to 160 a day of that.
No one is putting a gun to your head to pay trades. If its so easy and lucrative and you are so smart buy some used tools and do it yourself, then get a van and do it for others for "easy money"
Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Wednesday 19th April 09:12
OldGermanHeaps said:
People are vastly underestimating the real running cost of putting a skilled equipped tradesman on the road. When i worked for a national company to put an extra tech out on the road giving them a take home of £22k (a while ago now) actually cost our branch at least £81k a year not including admin and accountancy costs when all was said and done
£81k a year, on going, for take home £22k (£27k salary and £2.5k employers NI)? Not including admin and accountancy?No way! Maybe as a one off with an additional van and training but on going, seriously - not a chance.
trickywoo said:
£81k a year, on going, for take home £22k (£27k salary and £2.5k employers NI)? Not including admin and accountancy?
No way! Maybe as a one off with an additional van and training but on going, seriously - not a chance.
Cost of a van and tools and laptop, training, industry standard vetting, pension, healtcare, benefits. Purchase of items amortised over 5 years, running costs of van and consumables for a year, phone, laptop, agency cover for sickness.No way! Maybe as a one off with an additional van and training but on going, seriously - not a chance.
Had several robust meetings about it with head office as we *really* needed another body on the team.
This was at a uk based subsidiary of an american multinational but the figures were broadly similar at a smaller national you had to show where you were going to find 70 to 80k extra profit to justify paying an extra guy low 20s
OldGermanHeaps said:
trickywoo said:
£81k a year, on going, for take home £22k (£27k salary and £2.5k employers NI)? Not including admin and accountancy?
No way! Maybe as a one off with an additional van and training but on going, seriously - not a chance.
Cost of a van and tools and laptop, training, industry standard vetting, pension, healtcare, benefits. Purchase of items amortised over 5 years, running costs of van and consumables for a year, phone, laptop, agency cover for sickness.No way! Maybe as a one off with an additional van and training but on going, seriously - not a chance.
Had several robust meetings about it with head office as we *really* needed another body on the team.
This was at a uk based subsidiary of an american multinational but the figures were broadly similar at a smaller national you had to show where you were going to find 70 to 80k extra profit to justify paying an extra guy low 20s
A trade with van/tools would cost more than a desk jockey to equip and would probably need more admin support too (booking jobs, scheduling etc.) and you generally don't employ someone just to break even either - so on top of that 57K you want some margin, including some risk margin, and you will have to cover the cost of corporation tax from your profit.
So I can easily see 70K -> 20K
alfabeat said:
A mate of mine earns upwards of £150k a year for a management role. Ok he works long hours but it really isn't that stressful nor carrying high levels of responsibility (ie if he carks it then the world will still keep turning).
He was complaining the other day about an electrician wanting to charge him approx £400 to £500 for fixing their unknown lighting issue in their house (south east), which has meant they have not had downstairs lights for the best part of 3 weeks.
He hasn't the slightest clue how to fix his lights. It boils my piss that he cannot value what trades do.
I'd wager that the electrician could probably wing his way through his management job to an acceptable level....
I always work on the basis...... If someone else can do something I can't then he is worth more than I am per hour. Also factor in the overheads van/insurance etc and his 1 hour at mine is probably at least 1.5 hours including his travel to/from my house. Anyone who's willing to go up on my roof is also worth a premium (won't get me up there He was complaining the other day about an electrician wanting to charge him approx £400 to £500 for fixing their unknown lighting issue in their house (south east), which has meant they have not had downstairs lights for the best part of 3 weeks.
He hasn't the slightest clue how to fix his lights. It boils my piss that he cannot value what trades do.
I'd wager that the electrician could probably wing his way through his management job to an acceptable level....
)trickywoo said:
OldGermanHeaps said:
People are vastly underestimating the real running cost of putting a skilled equipped tradesman on the road. When i worked for a national company to put an extra tech out on the road giving them a take home of £22k (a while ago now) actually cost our branch at least £81k a year not including admin and accountancy costs when all was said and done
£81k a year, on going, for take home £22k (£27k salary and £2.5k employers NI)? Not including admin and accountancy?No way! Maybe as a one off with an additional van and training but on going, seriously - not a chance.
From the quotes we got for our kitchen and now the patio, I am convinced they build in so much contingency they cannot lose if it goes a bit sideways and something crops up.
If the profit on a job is due to be say £1500, you price it so the profit is actually £2000 which gives £500 wiggle room for something that inevitably crops up that is going to cost you more.
Our £8k quote for 55sqm of sandstone patio has made us think twice whether we actually need to replace the existing block paving, its likely we are going to simply pay a few hundred and have it cleaned.
I just can't fathom adding much value to the house spending £8k on a patio. I would rather spend that (and a bit more) converting our internal garage to a habitable room which will add value. We don't need a new patio, its a want rather than a need so why spend £8k on something which isn't broken?
If the profit on a job is due to be say £1500, you price it so the profit is actually £2000 which gives £500 wiggle room for something that inevitably crops up that is going to cost you more.
Our £8k quote for 55sqm of sandstone patio has made us think twice whether we actually need to replace the existing block paving, its likely we are going to simply pay a few hundred and have it cleaned.
I just can't fathom adding much value to the house spending £8k on a patio. I would rather spend that (and a bit more) converting our internal garage to a habitable room which will add value. We don't need a new patio, its a want rather than a need so why spend £8k on something which isn't broken?
Wagonwheel555 said:
Our £8k quote for 55sqm of sandstone patio has made us think twice whether we actually need to replace the existing block paving, its likely we are going to simply pay a few hundred and have it cleaned.
We were quoted more than that for almost half the size very recently. It was £6,900+VAT for a 30sqm sandstone patio. The sandstone was budgeted at £1,650+VAT, so the labour and other materials were £5,250+VAT for what he estimated was 5 days work. I concluded that he'd rather not do the job. Fair enough. We found someone else who did the job in just under 4 days for £3,100 inc VAT (that was 2 blokes for 1 day and 3 for the rest).037 said:
Lots of floor fitters run a mile from the click herringbone floating products as its difficult to put down efficiently.
That price seems like good value. Be careful though as the manufacturer won't guarantee the fitting and the fitter won't guarantee the product..
It’s utterly horrific stuff to fit! I’ve built whole garden walls, installed joists to new first floors, laidThat price seems like good value. Be careful though as the manufacturer won't guarantee the fitting and the fitter won't guarantee the product..
50m2 of 1” thick limestone slabs, fitted and tiled multiple bathrooms and kitchens and they were not even close to the frustration and difficulty of fitting 15m2 of click herringbone flooring. Never, ever again! Horrific stuff.
On the point of trades costs I’ve finally relented and decided to pay someone; £4400 for two men over ten days to repoint about 50m2 of stonework, including scaffolding and materials. It felt like strong money initially but this thread makes me think otherwise.
First time I’ve used trades for a very long time so I hope I’m not disappointed like I have been with most that I’ve used.
I live and work in Newcastle, but have also worked often in the south, having built up a steady customer base from my years living in Southampton. What you get paid as a sole trader can very much depend on where you are and how realistic your employers are. As a sole trader, I get 25% less in the north. When in the south I subcontract, I get more money and less aggro, as I'm taxed at source and the materials are already on site.
Obviously I prefer working away for reasons many and varied, as a well paid job in Newcastle is a rare treat. I'm a decorator, if it makes any difference, and it seems like everyone thinks they can do that, so not generally a well regarded or respected profession.
Obviously I prefer working away for reasons many and varied, as a well paid job in Newcastle is a rare treat. I'm a decorator, if it makes any difference, and it seems like everyone thinks they can do that, so not generally a well regarded or respected profession.
hotchy said:
It's a bit crazy what some charge. Iv got a totally warped mind as well since it's a friend who does mine so when I see quotes for things like sockets I get a massive shock. 7 sockets cost me £20. Yet that would have been over £500 with your price. Mental.
Yes, but his prices include earthing... 
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