Smart meters. Wish you hadn't?
Poll: Smart meters. Wish you hadn't?
Total Members Polled: 599
Discussion
LimmerickLad said:
PF62 said:
If anyone thinks that not having a smart meter installed today and benefitting from the cheaper rates now will change what happens in the future is deluded.
Do you need to declare a vested interest in any way at all?Do you have a vested interest in trying to prevent it?
PF62 said:
LimmerickLad said:
PF62 said:
If anyone thinks that not having a smart meter installed today and benefitting from the cheaper rates now will change what happens in the future is deluded.
Do you need to declare a vested interest in any way at all?Do you have a vested interest in trying to prevent it?
LimmerickLad said:
PF62 said:
LimmerickLad said:
PF62 said:
If anyone thinks that not having a smart meter installed today and benefitting from the cheaper rates now will change what happens in the future is deluded.
Do you need to declare a vested interest in any way at all?Do you have a vested interest in trying to prevent it?
PF62 said:
LimmerickLad said:
PF62 said:
LimmerickLad said:
PF62 said:
If anyone thinks that not having a smart meter installed today and benefitting from the cheaper rates now will change what happens in the future is deluded.
Do you need to declare a vested interest in any way at all?Do you have a vested interest in trying to prevent it?
About 2 yrs before we moved into this house the then owner (a farmer) had his cowsheds, dairy etc all linked from the house supply...at some point he had a seperate supply put in the sheds (that he still owns) with a wifi smart meter..........apparantly this new meter was added to the database but, as I found out 6 months after moving in to the house, they had deleted the original meter in the house from the database.. not only did he have by my calculations, about 2 years free electricity to the farmhouse, had I kept my big mouth shut I would have had more than the 9 months of free electric that they wrote off because this is the amount of time it took them arguing with me and to get the meter reinstated on the database........so as I see it I've had a fair bit of cheap electric already and could have had a lot more but thanks for the condascending advice.
PF62 said:
LimmerickLad said:
Jesus wept mate lighten up.....
Says the person getting serious by accusing someone of having a vested interestLimmerickLad said:
let me tell you a funny story about electric meters.
blah, blah, blah
Don't give up your day job.blah, blah, blah
I tend to satirise stuff.
But jeez some of the posts on here asre either delusion or some of the best bit of satire on PH
Oh and the arrogant condescending manner some posters (especially a very vocal but believe me VERY unaware chap as he has demonstrated on other posts) is pathetic.
Some people have had very bad experiences with smart meters some haven't. Fortunately in our builds people have been ok.
The meters though have been hard sold to people because of the pressures placed upon the energy suppliers.
EDA: The results (admittedly of a small pool of voters) of people who voted " I don't have one and don't want one" surprised me.
But jeez some of the posts on here asre either delusion or some of the best bit of satire on PH
Oh and the arrogant condescending manner some posters (especially a very vocal but believe me VERY unaware chap as he has demonstrated on other posts) is pathetic.
Some people have had very bad experiences with smart meters some haven't. Fortunately in our builds people have been ok.
The meters though have been hard sold to people because of the pressures placed upon the energy suppliers.
EDA: The results (admittedly of a small pool of voters) of people who voted " I don't have one and don't want one" surprised me.
Edited by anonymoususer on Wednesday 27th March 18:35
anonymoususer said:
I tend to satirise stuff.
But jeez some of the posts on here asre either delusion or some of the best bit of satire on PH
Oh and the arrogant condescending manner some posters (especially a very vocal but believe me VERY unaware chap as he has demonstrated on other posts) is pathetic.
Some people have had very bad experiences with smart meters some haven't. Fortunately in our builds people have been ok.
The meters though have been hard sold to people because of the pressures placed upon the energy suppliers.
EDA: The results (admittedly of a small pool of voters) of people who voted " I don't have one and don't want one" surprised me.
Please can you tell me the point behind your post ... other than satire ...i.e taking the piss But jeez some of the posts on here asre either delusion or some of the best bit of satire on PH
Oh and the arrogant condescending manner some posters (especially a very vocal but believe me VERY unaware chap as he has demonstrated on other posts) is pathetic.
Some people have had very bad experiences with smart meters some haven't. Fortunately in our builds people have been ok.
The meters though have been hard sold to people because of the pressures placed upon the energy suppliers.
EDA: The results (admittedly of a small pool of voters) of people who voted " I don't have one and don't want one" surprised me.
Edited by anonymoususer on Wednesday 27th March 18:35
The Three D Mucketeer said:
anonymoususer said:
I tend to satirise stuff.
But jeez some of the posts on here asre either delusion or some of the best bit of satire on PH
Oh and the arrogant condescending manner some posters (especially a very vocal but believe me VERY unaware chap as he has demonstrated on other posts) is pathetic.
Some people have had very bad experiences with smart meters some haven't. Fortunately in our builds people have been ok.
The meters though have been hard sold to people because of the pressures placed upon the energy suppliers.
EDA: The results (admittedly of a small pool of voters) of people who voted " I don't have one and don't want one" surprised me.
Please can you tell me the point behind your post ... other than satire ...i.e taking the piss But jeez some of the posts on here asre either delusion or some of the best bit of satire on PH
Oh and the arrogant condescending manner some posters (especially a very vocal but believe me VERY unaware chap as he has demonstrated on other posts) is pathetic.
Some people have had very bad experiences with smart meters some haven't. Fortunately in our builds people have been ok.
The meters though have been hard sold to people because of the pressures placed upon the energy suppliers.
EDA: The results (admittedly of a small pool of voters) of people who voted " I don't have one and don't want one" surprised me.
Edited by anonymoususer on Wednesday 27th March 18:35
Condi said:
You're right, there is only so much load which can move, but we may as well incentivise those loads which can be move to move.
I don't agree it's gaming at all - here are the wholesale GB power prices for today. Ignore the NO2 column. You can see energy is about twice as expensive at peak periods than it is at lower price periods. All the Octopus tariff does is pass that cost back to consumers, with a premium for certain times of the day. If everyone signed up, you'd end up with a much flatter demand shape, and on average energy costs would be lower due to more efficient use of thermal plant. See my example about with 24 people wanting to run a 1kw load for 1 hour.
And you're right that renewable output has a big influence on price, but there are parts which are more predictable than others. For example, in summer the sun shines and solar power generation is high. A bit like energy firms use average consumption models to calculate their prices to consumers, they can use average generation models to average out the tight and oversupplied days if people have a more fixed price contract.
Unequivocally the market is moving from a world where power was generated on demand to meet customer needs to a world where supply and demand are both variables. That will require some change in customer attitudes but I don't think resistance to it is as great as you think.
Those prices vary by a ratio of about 2:1I don't agree it's gaming at all - here are the wholesale GB power prices for today. Ignore the NO2 column. You can see energy is about twice as expensive at peak periods than it is at lower price periods. All the Octopus tariff does is pass that cost back to consumers, with a premium for certain times of the day. If everyone signed up, you'd end up with a much flatter demand shape, and on average energy costs would be lower due to more efficient use of thermal plant. See my example about with 24 people wanting to run a 1kw load for 1 hour.
And you're right that renewable output has a big influence on price, but there are parts which are more predictable than others. For example, in summer the sun shines and solar power generation is high. A bit like energy firms use average consumption models to calculate their prices to consumers, they can use average generation models to average out the tight and oversupplied days if people have a more fixed price contract.
Unequivocally the market is moving from a world where power was generated on demand to meet customer needs to a world where supply and demand are both variables. That will require some change in customer attitudes but I don't think resistance to it is as great as you think.
Edited by Condi on Wednesday 27th March 15:36
EV etc tariffs have a much bigger peak/off-peak ratio?
Octopus and co are absolutely playing games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWrIZCGy2Ok
I don't think people would be resistant to a predictable peak/off peak tariff, I think there will be 'politcal difficulties' with imposing the true cost of electricity on 'vulnerable' consumers when the wind doesn't blow on a Winter evening.
I think the US has had some issues with variable free-market pricing?
The grid functions by collectivisation (is that a wurd?) of demand and vaguely common pricing, sharing the risks of market movements.
We're moving to a situation where some people will be able to dip into the grid when it suits them and go feral off grid when it doesn't. Other people are stuck on the grid all the time, e.g .if you rent a flat, or if you need to use a public car charger perhaps.
Is it roughly the case that 25% of our 'unit' cost is typically 'distribution'? It's arguable that people with solar, batteries and all that are currently not paying their true share of the network costs. But it'sa politcal decision to structure things as they are to encourage uptake of solar and EVs.
I can imagine a lot of EV owners spitting out their false teeth when night time power costs more than afternoon power!
It's similar with gas, about 20% of your bill is network costs? Imagine when 50% of gas customers have switched to ASHP, the other half then have to bear much the same cost of digging up roads and all that. I've met people who have bottled gas, primarily for cooking and water heating, and say it's cheaper than being on the mains.
Interesting times ahead....
I've gone from being very anti smart meter - not the idea of them, but the "coercion" that goes with it - to having 2 bookings, one for our residence and another for a renovation property, next month.
I'm coming off a Shell Energy 3 year fix in August. Octopus have bought Shell out. I have solar and battery, so I should be able to achieve better rates/plans in the short to mid term. The renovation property has electric but not gas smart meter... with EON and BG respectively. The plan is to get BG to install the gas smart meter and then to move both services to Octopus using a £100 referral offer.
I'm still opposed to them in many respects, but money/savings suffice as motivation. I have the gear and some idea.
Hopefully it'll all work.
I'm coming off a Shell Energy 3 year fix in August. Octopus have bought Shell out. I have solar and battery, so I should be able to achieve better rates/plans in the short to mid term. The renovation property has electric but not gas smart meter... with EON and BG respectively. The plan is to get BG to install the gas smart meter and then to move both services to Octopus using a £100 referral offer.
I'm still opposed to them in many respects, but money/savings suffice as motivation. I have the gear and some idea.
Hopefully it'll all work.
OutInTheShed said:
Those prices vary by a ratio of about 2:1
EV etc tariffs have a much bigger peak/off-peak ratio?
Octopus and co are absolutely playing games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWrIZCGy2Ok
I don't think people would be resistant to a predictable peak/off peak tariff, I think there will be 'politcal difficulties' with imposing the true cost of electricity on 'vulnerable' consumers when the wind doesn't blow on a Winter evening.
I think the US has had some issues with variable free-market pricing?
The grid functions by collectivisation (is that a wurd?) of demand and vaguely common pricing, sharing the risks of market movements. We're moving to a situation where some people will be able to dip into the grid when it suits them and go feral off grid when it doesn't. Other people are stuck on the grid all the time, e.g .if you rent a flat, or if you need to use a public car charger perhaps.
Is it roughly the case that 25% of our 'unit' cost is typically 'distribution'? It's arguable that people with solar, batteries and all that are currently not paying their true share of the network costs. But it'sa politcal decision to structure things as they are to encourage uptake of solar and EVs.
I can imagine a lot of EV owners spitting out their false teeth when night time power costs more than afternoon power!
It's similar with gas, about 20% of your bill is network costs? Imagine when 50% of gas customers have switched to ASHP, the other half then have to bear much the same cost of digging up roads and all that. I've met people who have bottled gas, primarily for cooking and water heating, and say it's cheaper than being on the mains.
Interesting times ahead....
In the past it may have been that some customers ended up "subsidising" others, why should those consumers continue to do so if there are cheaper alternatives available to them? The only reason that happened was because the metering wasn't at sufficient granularity to distinguish when energy was used, not that there was any political choice made to "cross subsidise" customers. EV etc tariffs have a much bigger peak/off-peak ratio?
Octopus and co are absolutely playing games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWrIZCGy2Ok
I don't think people would be resistant to a predictable peak/off peak tariff, I think there will be 'politcal difficulties' with imposing the true cost of electricity on 'vulnerable' consumers when the wind doesn't blow on a Winter evening.
I think the US has had some issues with variable free-market pricing?
The grid functions by collectivisation (is that a wurd?) of demand and vaguely common pricing, sharing the risks of market movements. We're moving to a situation where some people will be able to dip into the grid when it suits them and go feral off grid when it doesn't. Other people are stuck on the grid all the time, e.g .if you rent a flat, or if you need to use a public car charger perhaps.
Is it roughly the case that 25% of our 'unit' cost is typically 'distribution'? It's arguable that people with solar, batteries and all that are currently not paying their true share of the network costs. But it'sa politcal decision to structure things as they are to encourage uptake of solar and EVs.
I can imagine a lot of EV owners spitting out their false teeth when night time power costs more than afternoon power!
It's similar with gas, about 20% of your bill is network costs? Imagine when 50% of gas customers have switched to ASHP, the other half then have to bear much the same cost of digging up roads and all that. I've met people who have bottled gas, primarily for cooking and water heating, and say it's cheaper than being on the mains.
Interesting times ahead....
Ultimately everyone will do what is best for themselves, and unfortunately that means some people will likely end up paying more if they use a lot of energy at peak times, but the costs people pay will better reflect the cost of producing the energy they use. This seems fair to me.
As for EV charging, it is almost inevitable that afternoon power will get (in many places already is) cheaper than overnight power, and suppliers will change their tariffs to reflect this. I'm not sure how they're going to work that across seasons, but the buildout of solar over the last 3 years all across Europe leads to very low prices (often negative prices) on sunny days. The price incentive is there to charge whenever the cheapest power is, and so the market will change to reflect that.
You're correct about the distribution and network costs being shared unevenly, and there are questions about how to make that fair going forwards.
As for the US - Texas had/has a very extreme version of time based pricing which combined badly with a complete lack of regulation when much of their energy infrastructure froze a few years ago. Nobody is suggesting that consumers in the UK are left as exposed as they were, and thankfully our regulation is better.
anonymoususer said:
I tend to satirise stuff.
But jeez some of the posts on here asre either delusion or some of the best bit of satire on PH
Oh and the arrogant condescending manner some posters (especially a very vocal but believe me VERY unaware chap as he has demonstrated on other posts) is pathetic.
Some people have had very bad experiences with smart meters some haven't. Fortunately in our builds people have been ok.
The meters though have been hard sold to people because of the pressures placed upon the energy suppliers.
EDA: The results (admittedly of a small pool of voters) of people who voted " I don't have one and don't want one" surprised me.
O go on you can't just leave us hanging on this?But jeez some of the posts on here asre either delusion or some of the best bit of satire on PH
Oh and the arrogant condescending manner some posters (especially a very vocal but believe me VERY unaware chap as he has demonstrated on other posts) is pathetic.
Some people have had very bad experiences with smart meters some haven't. Fortunately in our builds people have been ok.
The meters though have been hard sold to people because of the pressures placed upon the energy suppliers.
EDA: The results (admittedly of a small pool of voters) of people who voted " I don't have one and don't want one" surprised me.
Edited by anonymoususer on Wednesday 27th March 18:35
OutInTheShed said:
Octopus and co are absolutely playing games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWrIZCGy2Ok
Can you explain that video, and which bits are relevant? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWrIZCGy2Ok
Edited by Condi on Wednesday 27th March 22:39
Condi said:
OutInTheShed said:
Octopus and co are absolutely playing games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWrIZCGy2Ok
Can you explain that video, and which bits are relevant? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWrIZCGy2Ok
Edited by Condi on Wednesday 27th March 22:39
In other words the top and bottom of curve has zero gradient
Edited by The Three D Mucketeer on Thursday 28th March 10:14
dickymint said:
anonymoususer said:
I tend to satirise stuff.
But jeez some of the posts on here asre either delusion or some of the best bit of satire on PH
Oh and the arrogant condescending manner some posters (especially a very vocal but believe me VERY unaware chap as he has demonstrated on other posts) is pathetic.
Some people have had very bad experiences with smart meters some haven't. Fortunately in our builds people have been ok.
The meters though have been hard sold to people because of the pressures placed upon the energy suppliers.
EDA: The results (admittedly of a small pool of voters) of people who voted " I don't have one and don't want one" surprised me.
O go on you can't just leave us hanging on this?But jeez some of the posts on here asre either delusion or some of the best bit of satire on PH
Oh and the arrogant condescending manner some posters (especially a very vocal but believe me VERY unaware chap as he has demonstrated on other posts) is pathetic.
Some people have had very bad experiences with smart meters some haven't. Fortunately in our builds people have been ok.
The meters though have been hard sold to people because of the pressures placed upon the energy suppliers.
EDA: The results (admittedly of a small pool of voters) of people who voted " I don't have one and don't want one" surprised me.
Edited by anonymoususer on Wednesday 27th March 18:35
The smart meters scandal is about to explode in our faces
Daily Telegraph, 27 March 2024
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/27/the-sm...
Could be a pearoast at 4 days old.
Daily Telegraph, 27 March 2024
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/27/the-sm...
Could be a pearoast at 4 days old.
Snips from the link said:
It would not be much of a surprise if Ed Miliband, as energy minister, introduces some form of energy rationing.
The technology doesn’t work as planned. The numbers don’t add up. And ordinary people may have their lives ruined by a system that barely even recognises they exist. If ITV is looking for a follow-up to its hit drama about the Post Office scandal its producers and script writers do not have to look very far. It is playing out in real-time right now. In reality, the smart meter fiasco risks turning into the next Horizon scandal.
It gets 'better' after that, and while experiences will differ, unfortunately far too many won't.The technology doesn’t work as planned. The numbers don’t add up. And ordinary people may have their lives ruined by a system that barely even recognises they exist. If ITV is looking for a follow-up to its hit drama about the Post Office scandal its producers and script writers do not have to look very far. It is playing out in real-time right now. In reality, the smart meter fiasco risks turning into the next Horizon scandal.
The article is complete nonsense, just Telegrah complaining about change, and complaining about net zero, as per usual.
It would be a huge surprise to everyone in the industry if Ed Milliband introduced energy rationing, and if you think about it logically if 4m smart meters don't work then how are they going to ration energy, its a fallacy of argument!
It would be a huge surprise to everyone in the industry if Ed Milliband introduced energy rationing, and if you think about it logically if 4m smart meters don't work then how are they going to ration energy, its a fallacy of argument!
turbobloke said:
The smart meters scandal is about to explode in our faces
Daily Telegraph, 27 March 2024
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/27/the-sm...
Could be a pearoast at 4 days old.
Daily Telegraph, 27 March 2024
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/27/the-sm...
Could be a pearoast at 4 days old.
Snips from the link said:
It would not be much of a surprise if Ed Miliband, as energy minister, introduces some form of energy rationing.
The technology doesn’t work as planned. The numbers don’t add up. And ordinary people may have their lives ruined by a system that barely even recognises they exist. If ITV is looking for a follow-up to its hit drama about the Post Office scandal its producers and script writers do not have to look very far. It is playing out in real-time right now. In reality, the smart meter fiasco risks turning into the next Horizon scandal.
It gets 'better' after that, and while experiences will differ, unfortunately far too many won't.The technology doesn’t work as planned. The numbers don’t add up. And ordinary people may have their lives ruined by a system that barely even recognises they exist. If ITV is looking for a follow-up to its hit drama about the Post Office scandal its producers and script writers do not have to look very far. It is playing out in real-time right now. In reality, the smart meter fiasco risks turning into the next Horizon scandal.
nonsense_article said:
Your smart meter might then decide when you can and can’t boil the kettle
How's that going to work then?Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff