I'm going to try doing a patio
Discussion
nunpuncher said:
Grey_Area said:
Nice work. What are the slabs/flags? I like that colour and texture.Been down for eight years now, havent moved a jot. Tamped MOT type 1 base, 2 inches of concrete wet mix, then slurry bonded to the back of the slabs.
Easygrout for the grouting, and sealed for stain prevention.
I hand balled around 4 tonnes of material.....in and out of the area, which is a touch larger than the photos show below, but not exceptionally large... possibly 2 1/2 crates of 600x300mm slabs.
The hole in the ground used to be a fire pit, now closed in.
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Yegap said:
nunpuncher said:
Yeah, I had a quick scan through some of that site so I have the basics in my mind ie depths needed for a good base etc. I've also found a local guy that will come in with a mini digger and clear the space to a depth of 150mm and take all the rubble away for £500.
I'd probably have given the digging out a go myself but getting rid of the soil/rubble is the bigger issue.
From experience the site prep is the worst/longest part. I'd be chewing their arm off for £500 if that includes removal as well. It's always way more material than you think and if your ground is laden with rocks it's really hard going doing it with a shovel... If you're following paving expert I don't think there is much more to it. 100mm MOT sub base, whacker plate it 5-10 times over (in intervals when laying the 100mm if you can), then a 40mm bed of 6to1 sharp sand and cement. I mortared with a dry sand and building cement mix. The brush in products are a max 2year solution, which is then a nightmare to repoint.I'd probably have given the digging out a go myself but getting rid of the soil/rubble is the bigger issue.
Also I'd recommend a slurry on the back of the slabs to help it stay stuck over time. SBR and cement mixed to a paste works very nicely.
We had some landscaping done 7 years ago. Large area all round the house. Fellas (who did a fabulous job) used Projoint Fusion stuff to do all the grouting - one shaking and sweeping, the other wetting as he went - they completed that part within a short morning near the end.
Still rock solid, no weeds - absolutely amazing stuff - I would never use anything else.
I did this smaller (yet perfectly formed IOW shape) one 3 years ago, filling in an area that was originally a pond, then later a deck....the decking had rotted away - the before & after!
Also, to give you an idea: for that one, I bought an electric wacker plate (on offer on amazon).
We have a few areas we want to pave, and whilst the price was more than a single hire cost, it meant I could pick the best days (weather!) for me over a period of time, & have it for the other random areas as we go.
The 'pressure' for the electric is not as powerful as a proper petrol wacker plate, but for footfall-only areas, it is fine. A driveway would be a different matter.
nunpuncher said:
After getting sick of the usual tradesmen no shows, obscene quotes
Out of interest would you mind sharing what kind of quotes you were getting?And pls keep us updated on progress. I have a small area about half the size I am contemplating doing myself. Main issue though is that I cannot get a mini digger in so it would all need to be done by hand and wheelbarrow
Cheapest was £8k, most expensive was £12k. I have no idea how that might stack up with other regions, but here in the west of Scotland it's expensive. So far I've roughly costed sub base (type 1), sand, cement, slabs, ground clearance and removal of waste at £3k. I know there's more to add but I expect I can do it myself for half and learn a new skill.
I recently found out that the guy that quoted £12k quoted the same to a friend in work for a driveway, patio and retaining wall. His wife told them they only had £8k and he said "ok, I'll do it for that". Supposedly the work was very shoddy. 1 end of the wall was floating 1 inch off the ground, varying gaps between slabs. They used patterned tiles for the patio and despite drawing it out for them they still got it wrong. Honestly, I used to be a tradie (plasterer) but I HATE dealing with trades as a customer. A good experience is often the exception rather than the norm.
Few questions for those with experience.
I'd like to lay the slabs brick block (like the granite one above). Is this a bad idea for a beginner?
I think rectangle rather than square slabs would look better. Is 600 x 900 a bugger to work with as a beginner?
Digger man is lined up for clearing the ground on star wars day.
I recently found out that the guy that quoted £12k quoted the same to a friend in work for a driveway, patio and retaining wall. His wife told them they only had £8k and he said "ok, I'll do it for that". Supposedly the work was very shoddy. 1 end of the wall was floating 1 inch off the ground, varying gaps between slabs. They used patterned tiles for the patio and despite drawing it out for them they still got it wrong. Honestly, I used to be a tradie (plasterer) but I HATE dealing with trades as a customer. A good experience is often the exception rather than the norm.
Few questions for those with experience.
I'd like to lay the slabs brick block (like the granite one above). Is this a bad idea for a beginner?
I think rectangle rather than square slabs would look better. Is 600 x 900 a bugger to work with as a beginner?
Digger man is lined up for clearing the ground on star wars day.
Edited by nunpuncher on Thursday 18th April 08:34
Edited by nunpuncher on Thursday 18th April 08:39
600 x 900 is quite big = heavy, so with all that size it’ll be quite hard work. Also, having faced/cut edges means you need to be very precise with the lay for it to look good.
Did my first couple of patios 2 years ago, I used a mix of sizes of tumbled edge limestone with ~20mm gaps, was very forgiving in the lay for a first timer.
You want it to go down and not need doing again, so get the base right and take your time. When you get tired, stop. That’s when mistakes are made. Hire a mixer (or buy second hand then sell - usually cost neutral) as you will be mixing up surprising amount of muck. A mixer/barriw load will do about 3 slabs tops of that size!
Did my first couple of patios 2 years ago, I used a mix of sizes of tumbled edge limestone with ~20mm gaps, was very forgiving in the lay for a first timer.
You want it to go down and not need doing again, so get the base right and take your time. When you get tired, stop. That’s when mistakes are made. Hire a mixer (or buy second hand then sell - usually cost neutral) as you will be mixing up surprising amount of muck. A mixer/barriw load will do about 3 slabs tops of that size!
Edited by PhilboSE on Thursday 18th April 12:31
I've laid a couple of patios as an amateur/DIY-er - an Indian sandstone one around 4m x 4m and a smaller granite/slate type stone around 3m x 3m, and made various mistakes along the way which I've learned from.
- lay on a full bed of mortar, don't be tempted to lay on spots/doughnuts of mortar, as you'll get spotting in frosty weather and eventually the flags will start to move and rock.
- don't lay light coloured Indian sandstone. You live in the same area of Scotland as I and its too wet. They will go black, and need pressure washed constantly!
- have a deep drainage channel/ditch around a couple of sides where the patio falls away to, and fill with decorative stones - gives the water somewhere to go when you are pressure washing it, or when it rains.
- don't skimp on back buttering the paving with slurry, it really does help them stay in place longer.
- lay on a full bed of mortar, don't be tempted to lay on spots/doughnuts of mortar, as you'll get spotting in frosty weather and eventually the flags will start to move and rock.
- don't lay light coloured Indian sandstone. You live in the same area of Scotland as I and its too wet. They will go black, and need pressure washed constantly!
- have a deep drainage channel/ditch around a couple of sides where the patio falls away to, and fill with decorative stones - gives the water somewhere to go when you are pressure washing it, or when it rains.
- don't skimp on back buttering the paving with slurry, it really does help them stay in place longer.
nunpuncher said:
Cheapest was £8k, most expensive was £12k. I have no idea how that might stack up with other regions, but here in the west of Scotland it's expensive. So far I've roughly costed sub base (type 1), sand, cement, slabs, ground clearance and removal of waste at £3k. I know there's more to add but I expect I can do it myself for half and learn a new skill.
I recently found out that the guy that quoted £12k quoted the same to a friend in work for a driveway, patio and retaining wall. His wife told them they only had £8k and he said "ok, I'll do it for that". Supposedly the work was very shoddy. 1 end of the wall was floating 1 inch off the ground, varying gaps between slabs. They used patterned tiles for the patio and despite drawing it out for them they still got it wrong. Honestly, I used to be a tradie (plasterer) but I HATE dealing with trades as a customer. A good experience is often the exception rather than the norm.
Few questions for those with experience.
I'd like to lay the slabs brick block (like the granite one above). Is this a bad idea for a beginner?
I think rectangle rather than square slabs would look better. Is 600 x 900 a bugger to work with as a beginner?
Digger man is lined up for clearing the ground on star wars day.
You need to decide what paving - porcelain your using first , brick bonded paving is easy but with porcelain there can be a slight camber on the tile and it shows badly once laid , high in the centre and low at the ends . I recently found out that the guy that quoted £12k quoted the same to a friend in work for a driveway, patio and retaining wall. His wife told them they only had £8k and he said "ok, I'll do it for that". Supposedly the work was very shoddy. 1 end of the wall was floating 1 inch off the ground, varying gaps between slabs. They used patterned tiles for the patio and despite drawing it out for them they still got it wrong. Honestly, I used to be a tradie (plasterer) but I HATE dealing with trades as a customer. A good experience is often the exception rather than the norm.
Few questions for those with experience.
I'd like to lay the slabs brick block (like the granite one above). Is this a bad idea for a beginner?
I think rectangle rather than square slabs would look better. Is 600 x 900 a bugger to work with as a beginner?
Digger man is lined up for clearing the ground on star wars day.
Edited by nunpuncher on Thursday 18th April 08:34
Edited by nunpuncher on Thursday 18th April 08:39
Apart from that everything else has been covered here , cement - sbr slurry brushed on the rear of your paving and the ground prep is important , the better you do it the better the finished job will be .
It’s just hard work and common sense really .
Digging out done. Ended up crying stung £200 more than expected as the farmer had to do 2 trailers instead of 1.
It's dug down 150mm for the patio and 190 for the drive. Not ordered slabs yet but will go for 600x600 (900 being a bit daunting for a noob) so have come out just over 183cm for the narrow bit and 370 for the main area.
It's dug down 150mm for the patio and 190 for the drive. Not ordered slabs yet but will go for 600x600 (900 being a bit daunting for a noob) so have come out just over 183cm for the narrow bit and 370 for the main area.
When I did mine (and builders I spoke to) they said they’d only put about 100mm of stone down. I just put some terram down to stop the stone sinking into the ground and then whackered it.
Does look a bit shallow tho - how far down are you? You want 100-150 stone, then maybe a 40mm bed, then a 20mm flag??
Definitely a full bed needed and slurry the backs.
I’d put some nice stone edgings along the grass edge so you have something to finish up to.
Use a line set to the correct fall and a level and you’ll be fine - takes a while tho and hurts your back’
Does look a bit shallow tho - how far down are you? You want 100-150 stone, then maybe a 40mm bed, then a 20mm flag??
Definitely a full bed needed and slurry the backs.
I’d put some nice stone edgings along the grass edge so you have something to finish up to.
Use a line set to the correct fall and a level and you’ll be fine - takes a while tho and hurts your back’
That looks like it could be a bit deeper? I layed a patio last year (Indian sandstone) and I went for 75-100mm type 1, then a 50mm wet bed of mortar. It was hard work but worth it as the quotes my neighbours had received were (in my eyes anyway) ludicrous, ranging anywhere between £8-12k.
I hired a digger, wacker plate and mixer; I’ve used a digger before but it’s definitely an art form to get the level/depth you want. I dumped the spoil in the garden, and then paid one of the site workers £40 and four cans of stella to level the spoil with the rest of the garden, which was money very well spent. One tip I would suggest is using a cement based primer before laying the stone as it really helps fix them to the mortar bed. You really need a mixer for the mortar given the size.
I spent just over a £1000 on the patio - £550 for the stone (20sqm), £250 on hiring equipment, and the rest on aggregates. I did follow paving expert in terms of the slope/run off but it does look a bit much but my previous patio didn’t have enough and the water collected and it needed cleaned a lot. It’s a new build that we don’t particularly like so we are about to sell so I’m glad I didn’t spend a lot on it!
Good luck.
I hired a digger, wacker plate and mixer; I’ve used a digger before but it’s definitely an art form to get the level/depth you want. I dumped the spoil in the garden, and then paid one of the site workers £40 and four cans of stella to level the spoil with the rest of the garden, which was money very well spent. One tip I would suggest is using a cement based primer before laying the stone as it really helps fix them to the mortar bed. You really need a mixer for the mortar given the size.
I spent just over a £1000 on the patio - £550 for the stone (20sqm), £250 on hiring equipment, and the rest on aggregates. I did follow paving expert in terms of the slope/run off but it does look a bit much but my previous patio didn’t have enough and the water collected and it needed cleaned a lot. It’s a new build that we don’t particularly like so we are about to sell so I’m glad I didn’t spend a lot on it!
Good luck.
tim0409 said:
That looks like it could be a bit deeper? I layed a patio last year (Indian sandstone) and I went for 75-100mm type 1, then a 50mm wet bed of mortar. It was hard work but worth it as the quotes my neighbours had received were (in my eyes anyway) ludicrous, ranging anywhere between £8-12k.
I hired a digger, wacker plate and mixer; I’ve used a digger before but it’s definitely an art form to get the level/depth you want. I dumped the spoil in the garden, and then paid one of the site workers £40 and four cans of stella to level the spoil with the rest of the garden, which was money very well spent. One tip I would suggest is using a cement based primer before laying the stone as it really helps fix them to the mortar bed. You really need a mixer for the mortar given the size.
I spent just over a £1000 on the patio - £550 for the stone (20sqm), £250 on hiring equipment, and the rest on aggregates. I did follow paving expert in terms of the slope/run off but it does look a bit much but my previous patio didn’t have enough and the water collected and it needed cleaned a lot. It’s a new build that we don’t particularly like so we are about to sell so I’m glad I didn’t spend a lot on it!
Good luck.
Looks a nice job, I’m about to do Indian sandstone too. I’ve done woven fabric, 150mm type 1, and will do a mortar bed too. It’s not been too bad with the hardest part digging out and levelling I hired a digger, wacker plate and mixer; I’ve used a digger before but it’s definitely an art form to get the level/depth you want. I dumped the spoil in the garden, and then paid one of the site workers £40 and four cans of stella to level the spoil with the rest of the garden, which was money very well spent. One tip I would suggest is using a cement based primer before laying the stone as it really helps fix them to the mortar bed. You really need a mixer for the mortar given the size.
I spent just over a £1000 on the patio - £550 for the stone (20sqm), £250 on hiring equipment, and the rest on aggregates. I did follow paving expert in terms of the slope/run off but it does look a bit much but my previous patio didn’t have enough and the water collected and it needed cleaned a lot. It’s a new build that we don’t particularly like so we are about to sell so I’m glad I didn’t spend a lot on it!
Good luck.
As I said, it's 150 deep. I want the flags to sit just above the grass level so I've got the full 150 for my base and cement bed.
Remember there was paving here that had been down 40+ years on a dry bed. We went beyond lifting the sub base from that and since there was no sinkage in that I'm pretty confident the thicker base I put down will be ok.
Remember there was paving here that had been down 40+ years on a dry bed. We went beyond lifting the sub base from that and since there was no sinkage in that I'm pretty confident the thicker base I put down will be ok.
tim0409 said:
That looks like it could be a bit deeper? I layed a patio last year (Indian sandstone) and I went for 75-100mm type 1, then a 50mm wet bed of mortar. It was hard work but worth it as the quotes my neighbours had received were (in my eyes anyway) ludicrous, ranging anywhere between £8-12k.
I hired a digger, wacker plate and mixer; I’ve used a digger before but it’s definitely an art form to get the level/depth you want. I dumped the spoil in the garden, and then paid one of the site workers £40 and four cans of stella to level the spoil with the rest of the garden, which was money very well spent. One tip I would suggest is using a cement based primer before laying the stone as it really helps fix them to the mortar bed. You really need a mixer for the mortar given the size.
I spent just over a £1000 on the patio - £550 for the stone (20sqm), £250 on hiring equipment, and the rest on aggregates. I did follow paving expert in terms of the slope/run off but it does look a bit much but my previous patio didn’t have enough and the water collected and it needed cleaned a lot. It’s a new build that we don’t particularly like so we are about to sell so I’m glad I didn’t spend a lot on it!
Good luck.
Very nice, I like that a lot. Good job!I hired a digger, wacker plate and mixer; I’ve used a digger before but it’s definitely an art form to get the level/depth you want. I dumped the spoil in the garden, and then paid one of the site workers £40 and four cans of stella to level the spoil with the rest of the garden, which was money very well spent. One tip I would suggest is using a cement based primer before laying the stone as it really helps fix them to the mortar bed. You really need a mixer for the mortar given the size.
I spent just over a £1000 on the patio - £550 for the stone (20sqm), £250 on hiring equipment, and the rest on aggregates. I did follow paving expert in terms of the slope/run off but it does look a bit much but my previous patio didn’t have enough and the water collected and it needed cleaned a lot. It’s a new build that we don’t particularly like so we are about to sell so I’m glad I didn’t spend a lot on it!
Good luck.
Before you start OP...
I had a small 12m2 area to do for my gazebo. I was going to DIY but bottled it. I actually found bark.com to be good at getting quotes and where I found a good price.
One guy was just over £2k all in inc all paving and materials. One guy said £1250 if I dig it out. 1 guy said £8 or £900 to just lay it, and me provide everything.
I put an offer of cash for digging in a WhatsApp group which contains a few young lads. They came and dug it out for £75 and took the soil away.
Then paid the guy £1250 for all materials and fitting. Materials were about £700 I think, Mayfair silver 600x400 and tegula setts border.
He did that 12m2 with border in about 4 hrs, so he still made handsome money for half a days work. Worth having a look at bark.com to see if you can find a good quote.
All I need to do is sweep in the sand now. Was hammering with rain at the time so I said I would do it later.
£100 a sqm basically so I was happy enough:
BlindedByTheLights said:
Looks a nice job, I’m about to do Indian sandstone too. I’ve done woven fabric, 150mm type 1, and will do a mortar bed too. It’s not been too bad with the hardest part digging out and levelling
Thanks. I agree that the levelling out is hard work although you really want to get it right otherwise it creates more work later. One tip I used for the fall; set up your level (mine is 6ft) on a flat surface and then prop up one end with wedges to get the correct fall then place a bit of masking tape on the edge of the bubble/bead. Thereafter you know exactly where the bead should be for the correct fall.
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