A "name" kitchen
Discussion
Simpo Two said:
jke11y said:
It's a discussion that I have a feeling is pointless, but they are not "the same" - similar in so much as they are both kitchen units. Hacker have a technology packed manufacturing plant and the stuff is great quality for the cost. It's s bit like when people talk about watches and say things like a £100 seiko does the same as a more expensive brand.
Agreed, Hacker is better than MFI, no debate. But is it 6x better? If something is on show and appreciated by everyone all day, then the decision is tougher - do you want a Nissan Micra or a Jaguar? But a carcass...? I decided not; others may disagree.
Simpo Two said:
jke11y said:
Hacker are a mid-price, proper rigid built german kitchen manufacturer- Not b&q prices but certainly not Bulthaup end. We have sold 30ish installs in the last few years. Might be worth a look at your local dealer.
Ah yes. I had a quote based on Hacker units. That came to £9K; the same units from MFI were £1.5K. I saved £7.5K 
m4ckg said:
evo4a said:
No expert on German Style kitchens (flat panel high gloss) but the best traditional companies are
Mark Wilkinson Furniture
Smallbone kitchens
Underwoods
Armstrong Jordan Ltd http://www.armstrongjordan.com/ (I'm biased towards this company, traditional cabinetmakers )
Martin Moore
Plain English
Johnny grey Kitchens
What about Edwin Loxley ? they seem to make some beautifull kitchens but it would be Mark Wilkinson for me if I was after a traditional kitchen.Mark Wilkinson Furniture
Smallbone kitchens
Underwoods
Armstrong Jordan Ltd http://www.armstrongjordan.com/ (I'm biased towards this company, traditional cabinetmakers
)Martin Moore
Plain English
Johnny grey Kitchens
If its a more modern kitchen look at Snaidero ( designed by Pininfarina ) or Warendorf ( formely Miele kitchens )
I liked the fact all cabinets are made from ply and not mdf
Picture of the finished product
Ben
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thinkinghouse/5143273...
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/thinkinghouse/5143273400/" title="DSC_5608 by ben_mccormack2000, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4055/5143273400_3917f14bd1.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="DSC_5608" /></a>
Edited by benmc on Thursday 6th January 09:44
m4ckg said:
The carcase is the backbone of the kitchen
Bang on, it's the quality of the material used. You will find MFI, B&Q etc will use poor quality board and will snap like weetabix. The product we sell has a high density board and if you pick a carcase up it will be much heavier than the likes of MFI etc, but they do look the same benmc said:
No expert on German Style kitchens (flat panel high gloss) but the best traditional companies are
Mark Wilkinson Furniture
Smallbone kitchens
Underwoods
Armstrong Jordan Ltd http://www.armstrongjordan.com/ (I'm biased towards this company, traditional cabinetmakers )
Martin Moore
Plain English
Johnny grey Kitchens
Or if you want to go really expensive then there is only one name "Clive Christian" Mark Wilkinson Furniture
Smallbone kitchens
Underwoods
Armstrong Jordan Ltd http://www.armstrongjordan.com/ (I'm biased towards this company, traditional cabinetmakers
)Martin Moore
Plain English
Johnny grey Kitchens
GTO-3R said:
m4ckg said:
The carcase is the backbone of the kitchen
Bang on, it's the quality of the material used. You will find MFI, B&Q etc will use poor quality board and will snap like weetabix. The product we sell has a high density board and if you pick a carcase up it will be much heavier than the likes of MFI etc, but they do look the same 
te WRT to the materials used in the construction and why do they feel the need to charge extortionate prices.
this thread makes a nice change from people recomending Howdens, B&Q Homebase etc etc where I tell people to go to an independent till I'm blue in the face. I know I sell kitchens, but all people seem to buy into is 50% off at B&Q and a stupid 75% off at Howdens.
The kitchens I sell are no way near the qualiy and price of the kitchens mentioned in previous comments but are far better than what the sheds sell.
The kitchens I sell are no way near the qualiy and price of the kitchens mentioned in previous comments but are far better than what the sheds sell.
We currently have a Magnet Kitchen fitted in circa 1973 with cheap chipboard cupboards. None have snapped and would probably last another 20 years.
We are replacing it with another cheap kitchen (3k for cabinets) from B&Q but spending a little extra of solid wood worktops.
If you have got the cash why not spend £30k - but will it last longer probably not. It's more likely to go out of fashion and gets ripped out by the new owners.
We are replacing it with another cheap kitchen (3k for cabinets) from B&Q but spending a little extra of solid wood worktops.
If you have got the cash why not spend £30k - but will it last longer probably not. It's more likely to go out of fashion and gets ripped out by the new owners.
russ_a said:
We currently have a Magnet Kitchen fitted in circa 1973 with cheap chipboard cupboards. None have snapped and would probably last another 20 years.
We are replacing it with another cheap kitchen (3k for cabinets) from B&Q but spending a little extra of solid wood worktops.
If you have got the cash why not spend £30k - but will it last longer probably not. It's more likely to go out of fashion and gets ripped out by the new owners.
Dependant on size of the kitchen, 3k for only cabs is a lot for not the best qualityWe are replacing it with another cheap kitchen (3k for cabinets) from B&Q but spending a little extra of solid wood worktops.
If you have got the cash why not spend £30k - but will it last longer probably not. It's more likely to go out of fashion and gets ripped out by the new owners.
Deva Link said:
simpotwo said:
Ah yes. I had a quote based on Hacker units. That came to £9K; the same units from MFI were £1.5K. I saved £7.5K
I would argue (having had a B&Q kitchen when we first got married) that you wasted £1.5K.
All the cheap stuff is hidden under all the expensive stuff
Well I say expensive; the whole thing was £6,500 which I agree would only get you one door handle from Rundleknauser Kitchenfabrikenwerken GmbH.
Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 6th January 12:43
some of the kitchens posted here are beautiful!
However you CAN get the look and quality at the fraction of the price if you research what you want, sub-contract and/or DIY wherever possible - which is what we have done.
My girlfreind and I are both creatives and we felt confident enough to design our own kitchen.
We researched the look we wanted then we shopped around. YES we had a budget, but by DIY and a lot of effort (could have been done quicker if we got people in) we have a stunning looking kitchen (although it's not yet 100% finished).
I agree with the previous posts regarding where your house is, price range, future buyers (or if it’s just for yourselves) – and budget to suit.
I believe a kitchen will be one of the main selling points of a house - and I also believe that you should consider setting brand-names aside as the kitchen is judged equally on looks, feel and function.
For example, you really do need to think about keeping your options open for the work you don’t see – Plumbing, Electrics etc. For example, do you need to run cables and for what? (Even if you don’t need them now, put cables for gadgetry in, just in case).
We fitted an in-built 42" TV, HDMi cables, 2 x RF feeds for multi room for the rear of the house plus cables for LED lighting for the future + more). Then we figured we would need a plumbing supply for the fridge freezer we wanted as it has a mains fed water filter and ice maker –
We opted to knock 2 x rooms in to 1 so the whole back of our house is now kitchen. We also moved the kitchen from one side of the house to the other so that it creates an instant wow factor when you enter the house – If you are having a new kitchen then why not?!! No point having to walk in to the room only to have to turn round to see it! All of this was done whilst keeping the bare minimum of the old kitchen functional so that the house was liveable over 3 years (I’m guessing you’ll want it done quicker but we had to save!) We also cut out half of the back of the house to fit 2 x pairs of the largest French-doors we could get in there so we have as much glass as poss (couldn’t afford Bi-Fold plus a huge Steel + labour for the back as it would be over-developed).
We bought our base units from Howdens. Don't discount them – We have friends with a very expensive brand kitchen and theirs are no better. Howdens are very good quality base units - especially for the price.
We also purchased the doors, draws and wall units from them. Pan-Draws make a big difference to the look as do clever storage-solutions although we chose to avoid the latter for a minimalist look. Soft close hinges make no end of difference the feel of the draws etc. We haven’t fitted them all yet but intend to.
We fitted our units ourselves and fitted a temporary worktop incorporating all of the Branded appliances (Siemens and Neff). I shopped around for these. For example our oven would have cost £1500 but I found a new boxed and non-graded one for £470 on eBay. Our Franke Porsche sink would have been circa £900 from Homebase of all places but picked up a new one for £150.Same for the tap - £350 retail bought and delivered for £90.
We lived with the temporary worktop for 2 years whilst we saved for quartz composite and other things (just had fitted prior to Christmas - Cut on site, no need for templates and stunning). Depending on your worktop needs - solid wood, granite, marble or composite etc - there are massive price and practicality differences throughout the market. For example, Homebase quoted us £5,500 for the worktops alone! We found a reputable company (Granite4you) where we bought a better material, which was supplied and fully fitted with upstands and end panels for just under a 3rd of that price - and we didn’t have to pay a penny until we were happy with the finish of the work. Don’t be put off by sales talk from the expensive companies (ie from our experience the only difference was the price)….
Sizes and dimensions are key here. For example you can get 3 runs of 600 x 2.4m (30mm thick) of Granite on eBay from £600 - £800 fully fitted. Same with Composite. However as we have a 900 wide “peninsular” (and bar area) we had to pay a lot more – but it’s worth it as this really makes the kitchen.
Next was the floor.
We wanted under-floor heating and opted for electric type as opposed to the hot water/manifold type for practical reasons (i.e not wanting to rip up the whole floor).
For 25 x m2 you can pay anything up to £1000. I shopped around then took the best price to a local supplier. They matched it – even though it would have cost £180 more on their web-site. We also found a 600x600 pure white porcelain tile which was on sale at the “posh” Tile Centre for £48 per m2. I bought 30 m2 of the same tiles and paid a total of £12 per m2. HUGE difference. The tiles are stunning and shopping around saved us £900.
Lighting is also key. Study kitchens you like, mix and match styles and materials and copy and research what you like. Take a camera with you and make up style sheets.
Seems to me that people pay the big prices to make themselves feel like they are getting something more! A lot of it is also convenience.
I reckon we could have spent £30k + on our kitchen had we gone to a “top supplier” but have done the lot for around £8000 including top quality appliances (oh and Howdens gave us a free dishwasher too – which has already lasted longer than my old Neff integrated version!).
I’ll knock up a thread with pics from the start to where we are now soon.
If you decide you would like to go this way feel free to PM me and I willl be happy to put you in touch with a few of the companies we used.
G.
However you CAN get the look and quality at the fraction of the price if you research what you want, sub-contract and/or DIY wherever possible - which is what we have done.
My girlfreind and I are both creatives and we felt confident enough to design our own kitchen.
We researched the look we wanted then we shopped around. YES we had a budget, but by DIY and a lot of effort (could have been done quicker if we got people in) we have a stunning looking kitchen (although it's not yet 100% finished).
I agree with the previous posts regarding where your house is, price range, future buyers (or if it’s just for yourselves) – and budget to suit.
I believe a kitchen will be one of the main selling points of a house - and I also believe that you should consider setting brand-names aside as the kitchen is judged equally on looks, feel and function.
- You can have a very expensive kitchen - but stick a cheap, wobbly/loose tap on it (the part you touch) and the whole thing feels like its worthless. (I know that’s obvious but…!)
For example, you really do need to think about keeping your options open for the work you don’t see – Plumbing, Electrics etc. For example, do you need to run cables and for what? (Even if you don’t need them now, put cables for gadgetry in, just in case).
We fitted an in-built 42" TV, HDMi cables, 2 x RF feeds for multi room for the rear of the house plus cables for LED lighting for the future + more). Then we figured we would need a plumbing supply for the fridge freezer we wanted as it has a mains fed water filter and ice maker –
We opted to knock 2 x rooms in to 1 so the whole back of our house is now kitchen. We also moved the kitchen from one side of the house to the other so that it creates an instant wow factor when you enter the house – If you are having a new kitchen then why not?!! No point having to walk in to the room only to have to turn round to see it! All of this was done whilst keeping the bare minimum of the old kitchen functional so that the house was liveable over 3 years (I’m guessing you’ll want it done quicker but we had to save!) We also cut out half of the back of the house to fit 2 x pairs of the largest French-doors we could get in there so we have as much glass as poss (couldn’t afford Bi-Fold plus a huge Steel + labour for the back as it would be over-developed).
We bought our base units from Howdens. Don't discount them – We have friends with a very expensive brand kitchen and theirs are no better. Howdens are very good quality base units - especially for the price.
We also purchased the doors, draws and wall units from them. Pan-Draws make a big difference to the look as do clever storage-solutions although we chose to avoid the latter for a minimalist look. Soft close hinges make no end of difference the feel of the draws etc. We haven’t fitted them all yet but intend to.
We fitted our units ourselves and fitted a temporary worktop incorporating all of the Branded appliances (Siemens and Neff). I shopped around for these. For example our oven would have cost £1500 but I found a new boxed and non-graded one for £470 on eBay. Our Franke Porsche sink would have been circa £900 from Homebase of all places but picked up a new one for £150.Same for the tap - £350 retail bought and delivered for £90.
We lived with the temporary worktop for 2 years whilst we saved for quartz composite and other things (just had fitted prior to Christmas - Cut on site, no need for templates and stunning). Depending on your worktop needs - solid wood, granite, marble or composite etc - there are massive price and practicality differences throughout the market. For example, Homebase quoted us £5,500 for the worktops alone! We found a reputable company (Granite4you) where we bought a better material, which was supplied and fully fitted with upstands and end panels for just under a 3rd of that price - and we didn’t have to pay a penny until we were happy with the finish of the work. Don’t be put off by sales talk from the expensive companies (ie from our experience the only difference was the price)….
Sizes and dimensions are key here. For example you can get 3 runs of 600 x 2.4m (30mm thick) of Granite on eBay from £600 - £800 fully fitted. Same with Composite. However as we have a 900 wide “peninsular” (and bar area) we had to pay a lot more – but it’s worth it as this really makes the kitchen.
Next was the floor.
We wanted under-floor heating and opted for electric type as opposed to the hot water/manifold type for practical reasons (i.e not wanting to rip up the whole floor).
For 25 x m2 you can pay anything up to £1000. I shopped around then took the best price to a local supplier. They matched it – even though it would have cost £180 more on their web-site. We also found a 600x600 pure white porcelain tile which was on sale at the “posh” Tile Centre for £48 per m2. I bought 30 m2 of the same tiles and paid a total of £12 per m2. HUGE difference. The tiles are stunning and shopping around saved us £900.
Lighting is also key. Study kitchens you like, mix and match styles and materials and copy and research what you like. Take a camera with you and make up style sheets.
Seems to me that people pay the big prices to make themselves feel like they are getting something more! A lot of it is also convenience.
I reckon we could have spent £30k + on our kitchen had we gone to a “top supplier” but have done the lot for around £8000 including top quality appliances (oh and Howdens gave us a free dishwasher too – which has already lasted longer than my old Neff integrated version!).
I’ll knock up a thread with pics from the start to where we are now soon.
If you decide you would like to go this way feel free to PM me and I willl be happy to put you in touch with a few of the companies we used.
G.
Gallen said:
We bought our base units from Howdens. Don't discount them – We have friends with a very expensive brand kitchen and theirs are no better. Howdens are very good quality base units - especially for the price.
We also purchased the doors, draws and wall units from them.
The main issue with this approach is that you're stuck with standard sizes and then have to use random things to fill in spaces. Our kitchen layout is a U shape and 2 of the 3 walls needed odd size units therefore with odd size doors. Separately we also have a sort of big alcove which has an American side by side fridge/freezer and a double oven (separated by a brick wall) built into it. That was all tailor made. No problem if you're talking to someone who makes their own units, they can do anything needed.We also purchased the doors, draws and wall units from them.
Deva Link said:
The main issue with this approach is that you're stuck with standard sizes and then have to use random things to fill in spaces. Our kitchen layout is a U shape and 2 of the 3 walls needed odd size units therefore with odd size doors. Separately we also have a sort of big alcove which has an American side by side fridge/freezer and a double oven (separated by a brick wall) built into it. That was all tailor made. No problem if you're talking to someone who makes their own units, they can do anything needed.
See what you're saying. ...We have an LG American style Fridge Freezer and are building it in in such a way as you have described. With the peninsular, we too have a U-shape kitchen area so had similar issue. However we weren;t limited by walls as we could position the peninsular where we wanted within the room. We are using this Fridge Freezer area to lose the odd sizes by some clever fitting etc, and so it should look good. This is the sort of work where we do have to call in some help, but all considered are saving lots
I guesse you have to judge if you can live with a couple of fillets (at either end) which take up the odd size of the room - or opt to put these areas to good use... possibly introuce a shallow cove with some nice lighting in, etc... but yes, you do have to have "off the shelf" sizes.
G.
Gallen said:
some of the kitchens posted here are beautiful!
We bought our base units from Howdens. Don't discount them – We have friends with a very expensive brand kitchen and theirs are no better. Howdens are very good quality base units - especially for the price.
I'm sorry,but, no they're notWe bought our base units from Howdens. Don't discount them – We have friends with a very expensive brand kitchen and theirs are no better. Howdens are very good quality base units - especially for the price.
Gallen said:
I’ll knock up a thread with pics from the start to where we are now soon.
Still work in progress and not the best pics - but when its finished I'll get a professional photographer freind to take a few real snaps for me as most of these are off my phone and you will notice a BIG difference! [url]
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Edited by Gallen on Thursday 6th January 18:18
m4ckg said:
Gallen said:
some of the kitchens posted here are beautiful!
We bought our base units from Howdens. Don't discount them – We have friends with a very expensive brand kitchen and theirs are no better. Howdens are very good quality base units - especially for the price.
I'm sorry,but, no they're notWe bought our base units from Howdens. Don't discount them – We have friends with a very expensive brand kitchen and theirs are no better. Howdens are very good quality base units - especially for the price.
Of course they won't be the same quality as Poggen Pohl or similar, but they do the same thing and you dont see them. As you know, the Howdens Carcasses are chipboard laminate but are glued as well as dowelled I am led to believe (contrary to others in this price range!).
But that's me and personally I would save on carcasses and invest sensibly on fixtures, fittings and features to spec the kitchen, possibly doors if I wanted solid wood for example. I can not see the point in having expensive carcasses regardless of my budget - but do appreciate that there would be a high level of craftsmanship in hand made, and hinges etc.
I have a freind who has worked as a self employed fitter for a leading top-end kitchen and bathroom supplier. He did work on their behalf for someone paying over £70k for a fitted designer bathroom (would you believe - some people have more money than sense!). Had they gone elsewhere, they would have had change from £25,000 for the SAME thing! Money in some names that's for sure!
I think it is the individuality that you pay for. I am not arguing that designer kitchens are not beautiful - but I do not see, presonally, that they are worth their cost.
I may of course be wrong however
Edited by Gallen on Thursday 6th January 18:37
Gallen, good right up, a lot of what you have done reflects what we have done with our kitchen but we had to go the custom route due to our need to fit our room exactly and the fact that we wanted custom heights (we are both tall) and custom widths on worktops.
We visited most of the top name suppliers and they were all able to come close to our needs but compromises always had to be made to fit their kit.
At the end of the day we ended up having a totally bespoke kitchen built. The cost ended up being the same as the box suppliers (but still not cheap). As we live in a decent area it was worth the investment, the local estates seem to agree as they keep telling us they have buyers who would love our house which is nice to know.
We ended up knocking the kitchen, dinning room and a horrible plastic lean to into one room as part of a whole house renovation project. We specked the kitchen like this:
5 zone lighting system
Remote control Velux windows with rain sensors (highly recommended)
20mm thick parquet flooring (whole of the ground floor)
Wet under floor heating (whole of ground floor)
Built in sound systems with ceiling speakers
Ali bi fold doors
60mm thick Corien worktops and sink
Solid Parapan high gloss acrylic doors
Custom painted glass splash backs
LED back lighting
Concealed appliances where possible
No handles
Induction hob and Siemens appliances
Full width deck in hard wood
I have shown these pics before but here they are again. I must admit I am very proud of the work as I designed it and was heavily involved in all the building works.
Just after the work started
The old kitchen that came with the house
And when it was finished
We visited most of the top name suppliers and they were all able to come close to our needs but compromises always had to be made to fit their kit.
At the end of the day we ended up having a totally bespoke kitchen built. The cost ended up being the same as the box suppliers (but still not cheap). As we live in a decent area it was worth the investment, the local estates seem to agree as they keep telling us they have buyers who would love our house which is nice to know.
We ended up knocking the kitchen, dinning room and a horrible plastic lean to into one room as part of a whole house renovation project. We specked the kitchen like this:
5 zone lighting system
Remote control Velux windows with rain sensors (highly recommended)
20mm thick parquet flooring (whole of the ground floor)
Wet under floor heating (whole of ground floor)
Built in sound systems with ceiling speakers
Ali bi fold doors
60mm thick Corien worktops and sink
Solid Parapan high gloss acrylic doors
Custom painted glass splash backs
LED back lighting
Concealed appliances where possible
No handles
Induction hob and Siemens appliances
Full width deck in hard wood
I have shown these pics before but here they are again. I must admit I am very proud of the work as I designed it and was heavily involved in all the building works.
Just after the work started
The old kitchen that came with the house
And when it was finished
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