A "name" kitchen
Discussion
We've just bought a wreck of a 1930s semi with the original layout and "kitchen" in place - ie no kitchen at all, just walls, a window and a door. We're looking to open up the kitchen and adjoining dining room into one L-shaped space and install a U shaped kitchen in what was previously the kitchen room. This kitchen area would be approximately 3 metres square.
Where should I be looking for a better-than-B+Q-experience but for not-usual-Pistonheads budget. We are neither heavily built nor possess directorships with several listed companies. I'm hoping to get the masonry work, kitchen, worktops, electrics and appliances all done inside of £15k. Am I in dreamland?
All the names mentioned previously are either clearly outside our budget and/or give little clue as to their pricing on their websites. Are the German brands out of the question? Am I stuck with a Howdens kitchen? Never having done this before (this is our first and likely only house purchase) I don't know where to go.
Greater London/Surrey if that helps.
I should add we're soft Southern pen pushers so Streetrod style self builds are out of the question. Admirable though those efforts are.
Many thanks.
Where should I be looking for a better-than-B+Q-experience but for not-usual-Pistonheads budget. We are neither heavily built nor possess directorships with several listed companies. I'm hoping to get the masonry work, kitchen, worktops, electrics and appliances all done inside of £15k. Am I in dreamland?
All the names mentioned previously are either clearly outside our budget and/or give little clue as to their pricing on their websites. Are the German brands out of the question? Am I stuck with a Howdens kitchen? Never having done this before (this is our first and likely only house purchase) I don't know where to go.
Greater London/Surrey if that helps.
I should add we're soft Southern pen pushers so Streetrod style self builds are out of the question. Admirable though those efforts are.
Many thanks.
scenario8 said:
Where should I be looking for a better-than-B+Q-experience but for not-usual-Pistonheads budget. We are neither heavily built nor possess directorships with several listed companies. I'm hoping to get the masonry work, kitchen, worktops, electrics and appliances all done inside of £15k. Am I in dreamland?
How much of the work can you do yourself? The less you spend on labour, the more you can spend on kitchen. I'm sure it's possible, and there is life between the ubiquitous Howdens (wasn't impressed myself) and Goggenstrumpfueller Gmbh. If you don't like B&Q (have you been in one to look?) see also Wickes - and someone was raving about Ikea recently.scenario8 said:
I'm hoping to get the masonry work, kitchen, worktops, electrics and appliances all done inside of £15k. Am I in dreamland?
No, you are not. There are some unknowns in the list you give, but you are certainly not dreaming. I've done kitchens at around that price including granite worktops, appliances (decent makes) and installation, but not including electrics and masonry. So if the latter two are not too much, and if you went for oak or laminate worktops instead of granite, you could well be within your budget. That would be for painted Shaker style, alternatively if you fancied something very modern then that can be done too.scenario8 said:
Where should I be looking for a better-than-B+Q-experience but for not-usual-Pistonheads budget. We are neither heavily built nor possess directorships with several listed companies. I'm hoping to get the masonry work, kitchen, worktops, electrics and appliances all done inside of £15k. Am I in dreamland?
Can't see why. We put in a kitchen in a house for 6k which included all integrated appliances (WM,DW,FF), a rangemaster gas oven, under unit lighting and the wiring, and tiling the walls (including getting custom made paint for the kitchen to match the tiles), and so on.... The room was I think about 10ft by 8ft.Kitchens price ranges are huge, clients ask me for an American fridge and unless they give me a make and model or a budget, I can quote from £1000 to £16000.
Same price difference with a range cooker.
I always ask the client to give me a budget to work to.
The biggest failure of the large shed type kitchens is not really the quality (you get exactly what you pay for) but the coordination of installation and delivery etc etc, I hear so many horror stories of missing end panels, doors missing and new ones taking 10 weeks to arrive to find they don't match, or worst still the kitchen range is no longer produced.
Installation costs of the big shops are crazy as well. Get an independant fitter to install it.
Same price difference with a range cooker.
I always ask the client to give me a budget to work to.
The biggest failure of the large shed type kitchens is not really the quality (you get exactly what you pay for) but the coordination of installation and delivery etc etc, I hear so many horror stories of missing end panels, doors missing and new ones taking 10 weeks to arrive to find they don't match, or worst still the kitchen range is no longer produced.
Installation costs of the big shops are crazy as well. Get an independant fitter to install it.
scenario8 said:
We're looking to open up the kitchen and adjoining dining room into one L-shaped space and install a U shaped kitchen in what was previously the kitchen room.
I'm hoping to get the masonry work, kitchen, worktops, electrics and appliances all done inside of £15k. Am I in dreamland?
I should add we're soft Southern pen pushers so Streetrod style self builds are out of the question.
In all honesty without getting your hands dirty I think that'll be a tall order - a knock through could be a grand if you pay a builder.. then there's maybe a new ceiling and replastering the walls - another grand... granite tops - easily another grand minimum... decent branded appliances would be another couple of k... plumbing and resiting rads etc etc.I'm hoping to get the masonry work, kitchen, worktops, electrics and appliances all done inside of £15k. Am I in dreamland?
I should add we're soft Southern pen pushers so Streetrod style self builds are out of the question.
DIY it and be careful with sourcing materials and it's possible, but employing people to do the whole lot in the south east isn't going to be cheap. Just my opinion.
andy43 said:
scenario8 said:
We're looking to open up the kitchen and adjoining dining room into one L-shaped space and install a U shaped kitchen in what was previously the kitchen room.
I'm hoping to get the masonry work, kitchen, worktops, electrics and appliances all done inside of £15k. Am I in dreamland?
I should add we're soft Southern pen pushers so Streetrod style self builds are out of the question.
In all honesty without getting your hands dirty I think that'll be a tall order - a knock through could be a grand if you pay a builder.. then there's maybe a new ceiling and replastering the walls - another grand... granite tops - easily another grand minimum... decent branded appliances would be another couple of k... plumbing and resiting rads etc etc.I'm hoping to get the masonry work, kitchen, worktops, electrics and appliances all done inside of £15k. Am I in dreamland?
I should add we're soft Southern pen pushers so Streetrod style self builds are out of the question.
DIY it and be careful with sourcing materials and it's possible, but employing people to do the whole lot in the south east isn't going to be cheap. Just my opinion.
Hi guys. Thanks for your replies. In answer to points raised; we're really not best placed to do much of the work directly ourselves. However, this weekend has got me thinking that we might have to change that! Electrics and plumbing are probably always going to be beyond us and to be honest I'd rather pay a pro fitter for an excellent look for x pounds than save a few quid and have a crappy looking amateur fitted kitchen.
I'm intrigued though as to whether you have been basing your calculations on the kitchen units being B+Q/Wickes/Howdens or the German brands mentioned above. As prices seem absent from their websites am I going to make a tit of myself by speaking with these guys?
We installed our current kitchen via a local fitter a couple of years ago with units from B+Q. All in (units, oak worktop, appliances, lighting, laminate flooring and all fitting) that cost around £5k (having been quoted £9k all in by B+Q themselves). Overall I'm pleased with it in a flat we're soon leaving but the units do feel cheap and I'm not sure I'd get many more years from it before hinges would need replacing at the very least. Since we're expecting to be living in the new dive for at least a couple of decades we're happy to avoid the false economy of a "cheap shed" kitchen that would need work in 5 years time by installing a hard working kitchen this time. Soon we'll have half the income to work from.
Appliances would be Induction hob, electric oven, hood, washer/dryer, dishwasher and fridge/freezer (possibly an American style). These are likely to be from above but near the bottom of Bosch/Neff/other ranges and thus relatively cheap. I can source these myself via the internet and hope I can get those prices down to a sensible level. Like I say, we're not multiple directorship level Phers!
The wall removal "should" be relatively straightforward and I'm accounting for the central heating replacement elsewhere. We're probably drawn to oak worktops if stone is going to be prohibitive.
We're probably attracted to a "modern" clean wood or gloss look style - if that matters.
I guess we're off to the usual likes of B+Q and Howdens over the next couple of weeks to give the display kitchens a prod and a poke.
Thanks in advance for any help. A thread and photos will follow as and when we own the damn place!
I'm intrigued though as to whether you have been basing your calculations on the kitchen units being B+Q/Wickes/Howdens or the German brands mentioned above. As prices seem absent from their websites am I going to make a tit of myself by speaking with these guys?
We installed our current kitchen via a local fitter a couple of years ago with units from B+Q. All in (units, oak worktop, appliances, lighting, laminate flooring and all fitting) that cost around £5k (having been quoted £9k all in by B+Q themselves). Overall I'm pleased with it in a flat we're soon leaving but the units do feel cheap and I'm not sure I'd get many more years from it before hinges would need replacing at the very least. Since we're expecting to be living in the new dive for at least a couple of decades we're happy to avoid the false economy of a "cheap shed" kitchen that would need work in 5 years time by installing a hard working kitchen this time. Soon we'll have half the income to work from.
Appliances would be Induction hob, electric oven, hood, washer/dryer, dishwasher and fridge/freezer (possibly an American style). These are likely to be from above but near the bottom of Bosch/Neff/other ranges and thus relatively cheap. I can source these myself via the internet and hope I can get those prices down to a sensible level. Like I say, we're not multiple directorship level Phers!
The wall removal "should" be relatively straightforward and I'm accounting for the central heating replacement elsewhere. We're probably drawn to oak worktops if stone is going to be prohibitive.
We're probably attracted to a "modern" clean wood or gloss look style - if that matters.
I guess we're off to the usual likes of B+Q and Howdens over the next couple of weeks to give the display kitchens a prod and a poke.
Thanks in advance for any help. A thread and photos will follow as and when we own the damn place!
scenario8 said:
I'm intrigued though as to whether you have been basing your calculations on the kitchen units being B+Q/Wickes/Howdens or the German brands mentioned above. As prices seem absent from their websites am I going to make a tit of myself by speaking with these guys?
With the German brands, yes, probably. I was speaking for the stuff I do, and as, apparently, according to one contributor to this thread, there are 'thousands of guys like me' around the country, them too as well 
scenario8 said:
We're probably attracted to a "modern" clean wood or gloss look style - if that matters.
I guess we're off to the usual likes of B+Q and Howdens over the next couple of weeks to give the display kitchens a prod and a poke.
Thanks in advance for any help. A thread and photos will follow as and when we own the damn place!
When you get to that stage, starting a thread with some pictures and some basic measurements would be a good idea, I could do a quick sketch design and post it and perhaps those of us here that do kitchens could too, and maybe it would give you some useful ideas. I guess we're off to the usual likes of B+Q and Howdens over the next couple of weeks to give the display kitchens a prod and a poke.
Thanks in advance for any help. A thread and photos will follow as and when we own the damn place!
I too would say that the German stuff will blow your budget.
As for B&Q etc, such places often have two levels of kitchen - economy and decent. Soft close runners and hinges make a big difference to the feel too IMHO.
As for B&Q etc, such places often have two levels of kitchen - economy and decent. Soft close runners and hinges make a big difference to the feel too IMHO.
scenario8 said:
We're probably attracted to a "modern" clean wood or gloss look style - if that matters.
It does - for example gloss white is one of the cheapest finishes. Solid wood costs much more.I'll offer a thought about finishes, styles and materials, especially since you mention that you may want the kitchen to last for a long time.
Worktops- if you choose wood or laminate, try to make sure they are installed in such a way that they are replaceable without major work. Of the two, wood will be the less durable, especially in areas that get warm, or wet.
If tiles are going to be fitted, make sure whoever does it does not tile straight onto the worktop (a favourite trick of lazy tilers). The correct way to do it is to fasten batten to the wall "a tile and a bit's" distance above the worktop. Then tile up from there. Afterwards, remove the batten and fit the remaining row of tiles so that a clear gap is left between the bottom of that row and the worktop itself. That gap is then filled with suitable silicone sealant. That gap will allow the worktop to be removed in the future without pulling tiles off the wall.
Ideally, find the extra for granite.
Styles- Avoid anything very modern. Modern by definition means much the same as fashionable, and fashions change. Consider something classic if you can find something you like.
Finishes- The vast majority of kitchens are made in a labour saving manner, and that can lead to problems. Doors other than solid wood are nearly always coated or sprayed with some kind of plastic covering. If that covering is accidentally chipped, or peels off, it can be impossible to repair. A lot of doors that appear to be wood are actually veneered, frequently in woodgrain PVC, and the same thing applies there.
Plain frame and panel doors may well have solid frames, but usually the panel, unless raised, will be veneered MDF simple because it's not usually economically feasible to make large, thin panels of solid wood. Raised panels will usually be solid wood but do look rather dated, they were very popular 20, 30 years ago but are not seen so much these days.
The best finish for longevity is actually a hand painted one, simply because it can be retouched or even repainted, just like any other internal woodwork. Serious dents can be filled with polyfilla or similar and painted over. Doors that were originally sprayed (as most factory doors are) can be retouched if the same paint is available, but the result will not be so inconspicuous, just as it wouldn't be on a car.
Worktops- if you choose wood or laminate, try to make sure they are installed in such a way that they are replaceable without major work. Of the two, wood will be the less durable, especially in areas that get warm, or wet.
If tiles are going to be fitted, make sure whoever does it does not tile straight onto the worktop (a favourite trick of lazy tilers). The correct way to do it is to fasten batten to the wall "a tile and a bit's" distance above the worktop. Then tile up from there. Afterwards, remove the batten and fit the remaining row of tiles so that a clear gap is left between the bottom of that row and the worktop itself. That gap is then filled with suitable silicone sealant. That gap will allow the worktop to be removed in the future without pulling tiles off the wall.
Ideally, find the extra for granite.
Styles- Avoid anything very modern. Modern by definition means much the same as fashionable, and fashions change. Consider something classic if you can find something you like.
Finishes- The vast majority of kitchens are made in a labour saving manner, and that can lead to problems. Doors other than solid wood are nearly always coated or sprayed with some kind of plastic covering. If that covering is accidentally chipped, or peels off, it can be impossible to repair. A lot of doors that appear to be wood are actually veneered, frequently in woodgrain PVC, and the same thing applies there.
Plain frame and panel doors may well have solid frames, but usually the panel, unless raised, will be veneered MDF simple because it's not usually economically feasible to make large, thin panels of solid wood. Raised panels will usually be solid wood but do look rather dated, they were very popular 20, 30 years ago but are not seen so much these days.
The best finish for longevity is actually a hand painted one, simply because it can be retouched or even repainted, just like any other internal woodwork. Serious dents can be filled with polyfilla or similar and painted over. Doors that were originally sprayed (as most factory doors are) can be retouched if the same paint is available, but the result will not be so inconspicuous, just as it wouldn't be on a car.
singlecoil said:
scenario8 said:
I'm intrigued though as to whether you have been basing your calculations on the kitchen units being B+Q/Wickes/Howdens or the German brands mentioned above. As prices seem absent from their websites am I going to make a tit of myself by speaking with these guys?
With the German brands, yes, probably. I was speaking for the stuff I do, and as, apparently, according to one contributor to this thread, there are 'thousands of guys like me' around the country, them too as well scenario8 said:
We're probably attracted to a "modern" clean wood or gloss look style - if that matters.
I guess we're off to the usual likes of B+Q and Howdens over the next couple of weeks to give the display kitchens a prod and a poke.
Thanks in advance for any help. A thread and photos will follow as and when we own the damn place!
When you get to that stage, starting a thread with some pictures and some basic measurements would be a good idea, I could do a quick sketch design and post it and perhaps those of us here that do kitchens could too, and maybe it would give you some useful ideas. I guess we're off to the usual likes of B+Q and Howdens over the next couple of weeks to give the display kitchens a prod and a poke.
Thanks in advance for any help. A thread and photos will follow as and when we own the damn place!
My research shows that Boosch Siemens Neff and gaggenau have a lot of commonality - all are owned by parent group BSH. Siemens fridges are identical to gaggenau in price and appearance. To cost down costs I would spec Neff base appliances, hide a non-integrated microwave behind a cupboard and eliminate any fancy appliances you don't really need.
Edited by stanwan on Sunday 29th January 10:42
Surprises me on this lengthy thread, barely anyone mentions quality of service, expertise, and skills in actually designing a kitchen, which is very different to selling you one! It's all price focused, and that means you simply don't, in most cases, get great service or design knowledge. Service, design & backup are all part of the added value, but that doesn't mean it has to be expensive
I have my own small showroom myself, and as well as offering a good quality, good value product, i back that up with what's mentioned above, and my customers tell me that I may have been a bit more than X Y or Z, it was the overall package on offer that made it better value.
And a well designed kitchen can make such a massive difference than one that's got units on walls.
It's a shame that the sheds dominate with their big marketing budgets, as they make many people think mega discounting is what it's all about, not so. It's a frustrating one for us independents, and of course I understand that everyone has a budget to stick to.
Just my 2p's worth.
As you were.......
I have my own small showroom myself, and as well as offering a good quality, good value product, i back that up with what's mentioned above, and my customers tell me that I may have been a bit more than X Y or Z, it was the overall package on offer that made it better value.
And a well designed kitchen can make such a massive difference than one that's got units on walls.
It's a shame that the sheds dominate with their big marketing budgets, as they make many people think mega discounting is what it's all about, not so. It's a frustrating one for us independents, and of course I understand that everyone has a budget to stick to.
Just my 2p's worth.
As you were.......
MrH said:
Surprises me on this lengthy thread, barely anyone mentions quality of service, expertise, and skills in actually designing a kitchen, which is very different to selling you one! It's all price focused, and that means you simply don't, in most cases, get great service or design knowledge. Service, design & backup are all part of the added value, but that doesn't mean it has to be expensive
I have my own small showroom myself, and as well as offering a good quality, good value product, i back that up with what's mentioned above, and my customers tell me that I may have been a bit more than X Y or Z, it was the overall package on offer that made it better value.
And a well designed kitchen can make such a massive difference than one that's got units on walls.
It's a shame that the sheds dominate with their big marketing budgets, as they make many people think mega discounting is what it's all about, not so. It's a frustrating one for us independents, and of course I understand that everyone has a budget to stick to.
Just my 2p's worth.
As you were.......
This also explains the loss of the British High Street...I have my own small showroom myself, and as well as offering a good quality, good value product, i back that up with what's mentioned above, and my customers tell me that I may have been a bit more than X Y or Z, it was the overall package on offer that made it better value.
And a well designed kitchen can make such a massive difference than one that's got units on walls.
It's a shame that the sheds dominate with their big marketing budgets, as they make many people think mega discounting is what it's all about, not so. It's a frustrating one for us independents, and of course I understand that everyone has a budget to stick to.
Just my 2p's worth.
As you were.......
scenario8 said:
....(this is our first and likely only house purchase) I don't know where to go.
Greater London/Surrey if that helps.
I should add we're soft Southern pen pushers so Streetrod style self builds are out of the question. Admirable though those efforts are.
Many thanks.
Ashford Kitchens were great when we did ours. http://www.ashfordkitchensandinteriors.co.uk/Greater London/Surrey if that helps.
I should add we're soft Southern pen pushers so Streetrod style self builds are out of the question. Admirable though those efforts are.
Many thanks.
I'd say mid-range budget - i.e. Not massively more than the sheds and certainly not expensive when compared to the more prestige high street names.
We chose a Crown kitchen, sourced the worktop and appliances ourselves.
Has anyone had any experience with the folks at Kitchen Haus?
I went in there at the weekend for a quick look, and ended up staying for 40 mins with a salesman/designer. They came up with some great ideas and solutions. But for a small kitchen it was going to work out surprisingly expensive around the £10k mark, including all appliances and installation. (kitchen is about 2x3m). The quality of the units was much better than B&Q and the likes to my eyes. Also am I being unrealistic with the price that I am wanting to pay vs the quality that I want?
Just wanted to see if any of you folk had used them and what your thoughts were.
I think I will be checking out the local kitchen shop at some point this week for a comparative quote.
I went in there at the weekend for a quick look, and ended up staying for 40 mins with a salesman/designer. They came up with some great ideas and solutions. But for a small kitchen it was going to work out surprisingly expensive around the £10k mark, including all appliances and installation. (kitchen is about 2x3m). The quality of the units was much better than B&Q and the likes to my eyes. Also am I being unrealistic with the price that I am wanting to pay vs the quality that I want?
Just wanted to see if any of you folk had used them and what your thoughts were.
I think I will be checking out the local kitchen shop at some point this week for a comparative quote.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff