Our Springer has turned on the pup and son...
Discussion
Our male (neutered) Springer is 3.5 years old - we brought an 11 week old Lab x poodle into the mix last February (she's almost a year old). He was great with her - father figure, role model, playing, sleeping with her. No problems until this weekend.
He's now turned on her - is biting her, leaving flesh wounds with a bit of blood, baring teeth and really going for her - she's a gentle soul who is now trying to keep out of his way. He's taking toys off of her, trying to get into her food and generally not happy to have her around it would seem. Have had to separate them and they're not left alone together. He's also now starting growling at my son for no apparent reason if he goes close. He's fine with me.
Springer had his booster jabs last week and health checks - he is in fine fettle. They both had their grooms at the salon too. The pup had alot taken off and looks completely different and I'm wondering if that's what has set the Springer off? I can't see any signs of her being in season, but he is trying to get his wicked way quite alot!
Any thoughts on why and what can I do to sort it. Besides another vet check for him, it's looking like I need to find a behaviourist.
He's now turned on her - is biting her, leaving flesh wounds with a bit of blood, baring teeth and really going for her - she's a gentle soul who is now trying to keep out of his way. He's taking toys off of her, trying to get into her food and generally not happy to have her around it would seem. Have had to separate them and they're not left alone together. He's also now starting growling at my son for no apparent reason if he goes close. He's fine with me.
Springer had his booster jabs last week and health checks - he is in fine fettle. They both had their grooms at the salon too. The pup had alot taken off and looks completely different and I'm wondering if that's what has set the Springer off? I can't see any signs of her being in season, but he is trying to get his wicked way quite alot!
Any thoughts on why and what can I do to sort it. Besides another vet check for him, it's looking like I need to find a behaviourist.
agree with the behaviourist, but a useful suggestion in the mean time is a DAP diffuser in as many rooms as frequented by the dogs, also possibly zylkene in the diet. Mb I missed it in the post, but is the youngster a female and if so, is she coming into season? Could easily be a factor. Not much help 
Troubling and saddening.
It might be a pre-season thing, but that doesn't really explain the growling at your son.
Behaviouralist to see them "in action" is the best course of action, most definitely.
In the meantime, you've got the basics covered - separating them when not supervised. And I assume you're removing the springer from the pup as soon as you notice aggressive behaviour? Either feed separately, or be on hand to prevent any food-stealing.
It's a difficult one - ordinarily, there'd be the natural hierarchy between them, sorted out by themselves, but if the pup has only ever known an accommodating springer, it might be a while (or never) before she stands up for herself in this new dynamic - but you ideally need to know the reason for the change in dynamic in the first place.
It might yet be a season thing - it's engaged all his hormones, and so consequently "upped" the level of doggy testosterone, etc.
I think I'd be tempted to increase his aerobic exercise as well... lots of it on his own, and quite a bit more with them both together, to establish a level playing field (ha!) between them again, and to tire them out. After all, if they're sleeping, he can't be bullying her, can he?!
Hope you get it sorted though, OP - I can well imagine that it's quite stressful and worrying for you
I'd be
Thanks for the replies - much appreciated.
The DAP and those capsules are on order and should be here tomorrow and will try those out.
Still no obvious signs of the pup being in season as yet, keeping an eye on that. We are waiting for her first one so it's quite possible given her age and I'm missing the more subtle ones I've read up about.
Springer has been alot better with her today - only one attempt to go for her which was defused with a water spray - and no problems between him and my son either.
It's most odd. Will keep up the bowls being further apart/watching over them when they eat and liking the more exercise = more sleep!
Will see how we go from here and fingers crossed we get an ongoing improvement.
The DAP and those capsules are on order and should be here tomorrow and will try those out.
Still no obvious signs of the pup being in season as yet, keeping an eye on that. We are waiting for her first one so it's quite possible given her age and I'm missing the more subtle ones I've read up about.
Springer has been alot better with her today - only one attempt to go for her which was defused with a water spray - and no problems between him and my son either.
It's most odd. Will keep up the bowls being further apart/watching over them when they eat and liking the more exercise = more sleep!
Will see how we go from here and fingers crossed we get an ongoing improvement.
One of my brothers dogs turned on the other dog a while back after living quietly alongside each other for about 4 years. Injured it badly, debated whether to get rid of the one dog and didnt. Next time it got around it, it killed it.
Ended up having the other dog put down in case it did it to one of the others.
In light of this id be very very wary if i were you as this is how the above started.
Ended up having the other dog put down in case it did it to one of the others.
In light of this id be very very wary if i were you as this is how the above started.
charliedaker said:
One of my brothers dogs turned on the other dog a while back after living quietly alongside each other for about 4 years. Injured it badly, debated whether to get rid of the one dog and didnt. Next time it got around it, it killed it.
Ended up having the other dog put down in case it did it to one of the others.
In light of this id be very very wary if i were you as this is how the above started.
Dogs don't just attack each other without reason. They are not like people. There is an underlying cause, finding it is the issue, then resolving it.Ended up having the other dog put down in case it did it to one of the others.
In light of this id be very very wary if i were you as this is how the above started.
If the above was two males and there was an intact b**ch living in the house for example......
However, I've known "uncontrollable" dogs which had brain tumours....
Jasandjules said:
Dogs don't just attack each other without reason. They are not like people. There is an underlying cause, finding it is the issue, then resolving it.
If the above was two males and there was an intact b**ch living in the house for example......
However, I've known "uncontrollable" dogs which had brain tumours....
Fair comment!If the above was two males and there was an intact b**ch living in the house for example......
However, I've known "uncontrollable" dogs which had brain tumours....
Today has been a mixed bag...
Springer bit her tail end and face before I could get him off. There was no growling/baring teeth warning signs. Not bad enough to need vet treatment, but they are puncture wounds with a bit of blood.
Tonight, he's then stood licking her neck and ear, particularly where the scab is from where he bit her at the weekend and being all nice to her.
Lastly, DAP diffuser is here and they're in the main room we/they use.
Would pup smell different without her wool coat? She went from long thick fleece and looking like a big dog, to looking more like a whippet after the grooming trip. Her adult coat was coming through and advice was to shave off as she wasn't shedding anything and becoming more prone to matting. Maybe it's coincidence, but it was on the return from that trip that the Springer changed dramatically towards her.
Have left a message for the trainer/behaviourist for her input. She knows both the dogs pretty well.
Exercising them separately at the moment - he's fine off lead and with dogs he meets. She's on lead in case in season.
Feeling very tonight
Springer bit her tail end and face before I could get him off. There was no growling/baring teeth warning signs. Not bad enough to need vet treatment, but they are puncture wounds with a bit of blood.
Tonight, he's then stood licking her neck and ear, particularly where the scab is from where he bit her at the weekend and being all nice to her.
Lastly, DAP diffuser is here and they're in the main room we/they use.
Would pup smell different without her wool coat? She went from long thick fleece and looking like a big dog, to looking more like a whippet after the grooming trip. Her adult coat was coming through and advice was to shave off as she wasn't shedding anything and becoming more prone to matting. Maybe it's coincidence, but it was on the return from that trip that the Springer changed dramatically towards her.
Have left a message for the trainer/behaviourist for her input. She knows both the dogs pretty well.
Exercising them separately at the moment - he's fine off lead and with dogs he meets. She's on lead in case in season.
Feeling very
tonightJasandjules said:
I'd contact Canine Health Concern and speak to them about it.
Some interesting reading on booster jabs and CHC's opinions on links to ill-health.Just read a story of a springer who has turned aggressive/autistic like after his booster at age 3.... a bit too close for comfort that one.
Sorry to hear it, OP.
It could be the coat thing, or one of those "1 in sixty thousand million trillion" cases of something incredibly bizarre and unfortunate happening, such as the possible association with his boosters.... :/
Really worrying that he's not showing any prior signs of agression before attacking
Be interested to know the thoughts of the behaviourist.
How's the pup doing? I'm worrying about the psychological damage that might be caused to her because of it, and I've met neither you nor your dogs!
English Springer Spaniels are one of the breeds that appear to be most susceptible to reacting to vaccinations, ours collapsed with high temp within days of her first booster and went onto develop an auto immune condition.
Did you deflea and worm at a similar time? I'd get him checked over and try not to overreact to this period.
Did you deflea and worm at a similar time? I'd get him checked over and try not to overreact to this period.
Piglet said:
English Springer Spaniels are one of the breeds that appear to be most susceptible to reacting to vaccinations, ours collapsed with high temp within days of her first booster and went onto develop an auto immune condition.
Did you deflea and worm at a similar time? I'd get him checked over and try not to overreact to this period.
I am sorry to hear that - I wonder have you informed the CHC and your vet about that? Did you deflea and worm at a similar time? I'd get him checked over and try not to overreact to this period.
Just out of interest is he bothered by fireworks?
When was he neutered? A neutered male shouldn't show that much interest to an entire female.
I'm surprised she's not in season yet, ars you sure she isn't.
Do not risk anymore episodes. Keep them well apart. I hope she is on antibiotics, if she isn't get her on some.
There has to be a trigger fir this behaviour but finding it could be tricky.
When was he neutered? A neutered male shouldn't show that much interest to an entire female.
I'm surprised she's not in season yet, ars you sure she isn't.
Do not risk anymore episodes. Keep them well apart. I hope she is on antibiotics, if she isn't get her on some.
There has to be a trigger fir this behaviour but finding it could be tricky.
Jasandjules said:
Piglet said:
English Springer Spaniels are one of the breeds that appear to be most susceptible to reacting to vaccinations, ours collapsed with high temp within days of her first booster and went onto develop an auto immune condition.
Did you deflea and worm at a similar time? I'd get him checked over and try not to overreact to this period.
I am sorry to hear that - I wonder have you informed the CHC and your vet about that? Did you deflea and worm at a similar time? I'd get him checked over and try not to overreact to this period.
Our vets don't accept a link...
Sorry to hear about your Springer, Piglet, how awful.
Today has been good so far. Don't know if the DAP is making any difference, but the pup is wandering around with the Springer, whereas she has been keeping her distance. So that's an improvement.
Spoke to behaviourist, nothing pinpointed over the phone, but she wants me to get both vet checked before she comes out, to rule out any illness, etc.
So, took springer to vets - like Piglet, booster completely ruled out as a possible and wouldn't even entertain a discussion around it. They also have a rule if you don't have the booster done with 2 weeks of the previous annual one, then they insist you have to start again with the full 2 rounds.
Nothing found in the checks - they will do a blood test if I want - thoroughly checked from eyes, ears, mouth, paws, joints, anal glands, felt all over, listened to heart, asked lots of questions. He was as good as gold, even giving paw without asking when he saw a biscuit coming his way! Was I sure it wasn't just jealousy - don't know, it could be. He has become possessive over everything, including me (I think that's why he is growling at my son as that is when Springer is laying by my feet - he's fine with son in all other situations).
Taking pup to the vet next to be checked over too. I can't be sure she isn't in season, but there are no obvious signs - she's not swollen, she's not losing any blood, behaviour not really any different, except for being distant from the Springer since he started biting her at the weekend.
The Springer was neutered 2.5 years ago - is it unusual behaviour that he has been trying to mount her alot? He tried to mount a neutered b
h that visited the house earlier in the year too.
He's not bothered by fireworks at all - he loves to go out in the garden and stands listening to the noises, then goes off to patrol the borders and comes back in. The pup was less keen - but she stood at the open door and wasn't phased by them.
Worming and flea treatments - both due next month and we use Milbemax from the vets and the flea one I can't remember the name, but also a vet dispensed one.
All a bit of a mystery still.
Today has been good so far. Don't know if the DAP is making any difference, but the pup is wandering around with the Springer, whereas she has been keeping her distance. So that's an improvement.
Spoke to behaviourist, nothing pinpointed over the phone, but she wants me to get both vet checked before she comes out, to rule out any illness, etc.
So, took springer to vets - like Piglet, booster completely ruled out as a possible and wouldn't even entertain a discussion around it. They also have a rule if you don't have the booster done with 2 weeks of the previous annual one, then they insist you have to start again with the full 2 rounds.
Nothing found in the checks - they will do a blood test if I want - thoroughly checked from eyes, ears, mouth, paws, joints, anal glands, felt all over, listened to heart, asked lots of questions. He was as good as gold, even giving paw without asking when he saw a biscuit coming his way! Was I sure it wasn't just jealousy - don't know, it could be. He has become possessive over everything, including me (I think that's why he is growling at my son as that is when Springer is laying by my feet - he's fine with son in all other situations).
Taking pup to the vet next to be checked over too. I can't be sure she isn't in season, but there are no obvious signs - she's not swollen, she's not losing any blood, behaviour not really any different, except for being distant from the Springer since he started biting her at the weekend.
The Springer was neutered 2.5 years ago - is it unusual behaviour that he has been trying to mount her alot? He tried to mount a neutered b
h that visited the house earlier in the year too.He's not bothered by fireworks at all - he loves to go out in the garden and stands listening to the noises, then goes off to patrol the borders and comes back in. The pup was less keen - but she stood at the open door and wasn't phased by them.
Worming and flea treatments - both due next month and we use Milbemax from the vets and the flea one I can't remember the name, but also a vet dispensed one.
All a bit of a mystery still.
Karyn - Pup is doing ok I think, she's not hiding away and still wagging her tail, eating and drinking fine. She's got toys and her bed in a different room at the moment. She is definitely more cautious and less playful than she was. I am worrying about the longer term impact as well. Plus now getting the daily dog-walking contingent saying to re-home one of them I don't see that as the solution right now, but a very last resort.
Will update tonight - vets for pup at 5.50pm.
I don't see that as the solution right now, but a very last resort.Will update tonight - vets for pup at 5.50pm.
Gassing Station | All Creatures Great & Small | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff