Dog. Repair or Write off?
Discussion
The dog came back from a walk about 3 months ago limping badly on her back right leg.
Long story short: she has snapped her cruciate ligament. A repair operation is possible but will cost 1700 quid. It will not be covered by insurance.
The dog is approaching 2 years old, is a mongrel (mainly mastiff, lots of ridgeback and a smattering of others!) and was a rehome.
She's a fab dog - we've had her 15 months and despite her dodgy start in life is now trained(ish) obediant(ish) (sits and stays like a good un, generally comes back immediately(ish) when called) and is incredibly soft and good natured with our toddler. Good in the car, friendly, doesn't escape etc. A bit like mary poppins, practically perfect in every way.
So we now have the choice of paying a quoted 1700 quid to have it repaired: this will involve an op, scraping the bone of her leg away, back filling with "titanium foam" which (somehow) the ligament will be attached to and (alledgedly) the bone will regrow through the titanium foam and reattach itself to the ligament. (ish, relayed via an upset wife). This is apparently "guaranteed" to work, will of course not cost a penny more than the quote and will last forever. (Despite the dogs tendancies to go absolutely banzai as soon as she is let off the lead in an open space.)
Or put her to sleep. This will be painless, guaranteed to work and a lot cheaper.
Sadly, we're skint. We have the money - as in there is money sat in the account, but it's not ours - it's bank of mum and dads money, out on loan, which is "left over" from something else. It would have to be repaid (albeit on very lax terms) .
She is a mutt, a nice mutt, but a cheap, boggo, brown mutt. I am suspicious as to the "guarantees" given by the vet, and have reservations about it being a "kind" or "right" thing to do: She has already had 3 months in pain / discomfort and without being allowed to run or able to walk properly / enough. (She really, really loves to run). I am unsure that a big operation and (unknown length) convalesence is the right, rather than selfish, thing to do.
On the one hand we have a dog that could live for another 8ish years, that could be fixed and is known quantity and is totally lovely (which represents fair "return on investment" in my opinion).
Or we could be inflicting pain and suffering on that lovely dog who may never be right again because we don't MTFU and do the kind thing.
And what if we spend the money (we don't have) and put the dog through all this, for it to go *pop* the first time she's allowed off the lead in a field and goes bats
t crazy?
And are we really considering spending 9 times the purchase price, (or one fifth of a garage, or half a guzzi etc) on a (rationally thinking completely replaceable) mutt?
Personally, I'm inclined to think that the right thing to do is say goodbye (just: heart vs head etc). The wife doesn't and would just get on and give the vet the money and the dog.
Any experiences, thoughts or guiding words would be welcomed, as clearly we need to be in agreement before we can move forward (in either direction) so any help can only be useful!
Thanks
Dan
Long story short: she has snapped her cruciate ligament. A repair operation is possible but will cost 1700 quid. It will not be covered by insurance.
The dog is approaching 2 years old, is a mongrel (mainly mastiff, lots of ridgeback and a smattering of others!) and was a rehome.
She's a fab dog - we've had her 15 months and despite her dodgy start in life is now trained(ish) obediant(ish) (sits and stays like a good un, generally comes back immediately(ish) when called) and is incredibly soft and good natured with our toddler. Good in the car, friendly, doesn't escape etc. A bit like mary poppins, practically perfect in every way.
So we now have the choice of paying a quoted 1700 quid to have it repaired: this will involve an op, scraping the bone of her leg away, back filling with "titanium foam" which (somehow) the ligament will be attached to and (alledgedly) the bone will regrow through the titanium foam and reattach itself to the ligament. (ish, relayed via an upset wife). This is apparently "guaranteed" to work, will of course not cost a penny more than the quote and will last forever. (Despite the dogs tendancies to go absolutely banzai as soon as she is let off the lead in an open space.)
Or put her to sleep. This will be painless, guaranteed to work and a lot cheaper.
Sadly, we're skint. We have the money - as in there is money sat in the account, but it's not ours - it's bank of mum and dads money, out on loan, which is "left over" from something else. It would have to be repaid (albeit on very lax terms) .
She is a mutt, a nice mutt, but a cheap, boggo, brown mutt. I am suspicious as to the "guarantees" given by the vet, and have reservations about it being a "kind" or "right" thing to do: She has already had 3 months in pain / discomfort and without being allowed to run or able to walk properly / enough. (She really, really loves to run). I am unsure that a big operation and (unknown length) convalesence is the right, rather than selfish, thing to do.
On the one hand we have a dog that could live for another 8ish years, that could be fixed and is known quantity and is totally lovely (which represents fair "return on investment" in my opinion).
Or we could be inflicting pain and suffering on that lovely dog who may never be right again because we don't MTFU and do the kind thing.
And what if we spend the money (we don't have) and put the dog through all this, for it to go *pop* the first time she's allowed off the lead in a field and goes bats
t crazy?And are we really considering spending 9 times the purchase price, (or one fifth of a garage, or half a guzzi etc) on a (rationally thinking completely replaceable) mutt?
Personally, I'm inclined to think that the right thing to do is say goodbye (just: heart vs head etc). The wife doesn't and would just get on and give the vet the money and the dog.
Any experiences, thoughts or guiding words would be welcomed, as clearly we need to be in agreement before we can move forward (in either direction) so any help can only be useful!
Thanks
Dan
If you cant afford to pay for it and cant find a charity to do it free or at a price you can afford then you will just have to put it down. As doing nothing isnt an option your choices are pretty stark.
It may be that there are some genetic problems in this dog from over breeding in the thoroughbred parents. Fashion driven dog breeds are a disgrace IMHO.
It may be that there are some genetic problems in this dog from over breeding in the thoroughbred parents. Fashion driven dog breeds are a disgrace IMHO.
Sorry to be a bit righteous but just the way that you are talking about her makes me think that you shouldn't have a dog in the first place.
I don't want to be confrontational at all, but phrases like "reasonable return on my investment" and a "cheap boggo mutt" if she was worth £2K would you have the op then?
If she is only 2 and as you say a lovely dog is £1700 worth seeing her life over? I have no idea about your personal situation and it is a lot of money but there must be a way around it. My friends Staffy bh had her cruciate go at a young age and she has been perfect ever since so its in no way a life changing injury.
If she has the op you may have to reign her in a bit in future to prevent a reoccourance of the injury.
Again OP, I appologise for seeming so blunt and I hope a way can be found.
I don't want to be confrontational at all, but phrases like "reasonable return on my investment" and a "cheap boggo mutt" if she was worth £2K would you have the op then?
If she is only 2 and as you say a lovely dog is £1700 worth seeing her life over? I have no idea about your personal situation and it is a lot of money but there must be a way around it. My friends Staffy b
h had her cruciate go at a young age and she has been perfect ever since so its in no way a life changing injury.If she has the op you may have to reign her in a bit in future to prevent a reoccourance of the injury.
Again OP, I appologise for seeming so blunt and I hope a way can be found.
essexplumber said:
Sorry to be a bit righteous but just the way that you are talking about her makes me think that you shouldn't have a dog in the first place.
I don't want to be confrontational at all, but phrases like "reasonable return on my investment" and a "cheap boggo mutt" if she was worth £2K would you have the op then?
If she is only 2 and as you say a lovely dog is £1700 worth seeing her life over? I have no idea about your personal situation and it is a lot of money but there must be a way around it. My friends Staffy bh had her cruciate go at a young age and she has been perfect ever since so its in no way a life changing injury.
If she has the op you may have to reign her in a bit in future to prevent a reoccourance of the injury.
Again OP, I appologise for seeming so blunt and I hope a way can be found.
Pretty much nails it for me, some of the language used is concerning to say the leastI don't want to be confrontational at all, but phrases like "reasonable return on my investment" and a "cheap boggo mutt" if she was worth £2K would you have the op then?
If she is only 2 and as you say a lovely dog is £1700 worth seeing her life over? I have no idea about your personal situation and it is a lot of money but there must be a way around it. My friends Staffy b
h had her cruciate go at a young age and she has been perfect ever since so its in no way a life changing injury.If she has the op you may have to reign her in a bit in future to prevent a reoccourance of the injury.
Again OP, I appologise for seeming so blunt and I hope a way can be found.
Its not a f
king car!
Sorry you're in a bind, OP.
There's absolutely no question as to what I would do if it were my pooch (not that that helps you any!)...
I just hope you "give her a chance", as it were. Every operation has its risk and recovery time, but I don't think the vet will be purposely say that the chances of it being successful are good if they weren't, if you see what I mean?
I can understand that you're worried about inflicting pain and suffering on her through the operation and recovery, but... well, such is the way of life, sometimes. She won't complain, I promise you.
I'm pretty sure some of the animal charities offer support with cumbersome vet bills - do some research. It's only money. You'd put money over the life of your pet?
If the tables were turned and it was you with the injury that was through no fault of your own and has a good chance of being resolved, which way would you want the decision to go?
I know that ^^ the above is a very emotive way of putting it, but... well, it's an emotive subject, isn't it! You can't price unswerving devotion and loyalty the way you seem to be trying to - quantifiable amounts and investment returns... her life is so very much in your hands, as you've noted. £1700 for a long and happy life?
No question about it, from me. It's priceless.
Never having to face this sort of question is why I buy pet insurance - my question to the vet is always "what is in the animal's best interests?" not "what will it cost?". When people say they don't bother with insurance and will pay the bill, I wonder whether they would take this view:
A lex said:
And by the way OP id be selling my Earthly possessions to pay for my dogs to be 'fixed' before putting them to sleep.
or the OP's view. I hope the former.I think the way the OP is written is terrible, I don't know if it's a failed attempt to lighten the subject but it doesn't sit well with me. Are you on the ASD spectrum at all?
There are two decisions here-
Financial
Quality of life
You've answered the first one. You COULD get the money (Ignoring all nonsense about return on investment etc).
The second one? Well, that's harder. Dogs and leg operations are always tricky, especially on big, active ones. My mum has a lurcher who majorly injured her legs a while back, luckily she was insured so the first question wasn't an issue.
However, she hasn't really been right ever since and there's always an element where she has to hold herself back- A really active, incredibly fast (and stupid!) dog. If she had another injury, regardless of the insurance situation, we'd have to think really hard about whether it's kind to allow an active dog to continue a much diminshed existence.
However, as I type this on the sofa alongside my utterly beloved cat, if he needed something major done, I don't know whether I'd have the emotional detachment to make the right decision. The money would be found though. Even if he is a cheap moggy
There are two decisions here-
Financial
Quality of life
You've answered the first one. You COULD get the money (Ignoring all nonsense about return on investment etc).
The second one? Well, that's harder. Dogs and leg operations are always tricky, especially on big, active ones. My mum has a lurcher who majorly injured her legs a while back, luckily she was insured so the first question wasn't an issue.
However, she hasn't really been right ever since and there's always an element where she has to hold herself back- A really active, incredibly fast (and stupid!) dog. If she had another injury, regardless of the insurance situation, we'd have to think really hard about whether it's kind to allow an active dog to continue a much diminshed existence.
However, as I type this on the sofa alongside my utterly beloved cat, if he needed something major done, I don't know whether I'd have the emotional detachment to make the right decision. The money would be found though. Even if he is a cheap moggy
anonymous said:
[redacted]
To be fair to the OP, I think the comments about getting it repaired and reasonable return on investment are a bit tongue in cheek.I know there's some people who would sell their granny if their dog needed an expensive op. My OH would.
But it is possible to be an animal lover and a practical person aswell. £1700 is a heck of a lot of money and I can understand the OP's dilemma.
There's no point in what-iffing about what might happen after the op is done - it could run off first time off lead. It could be hit by a bus next month - you never know.
If you love the dog, want to pay out the money and stick with a known quantity, dig deep and fork out. In cold terms it's no different to the engine blowing on your car - fork out for a replacement and stick with what you know or send to the scrapper?
If I'd had a dog that long, I'd probably find the money I have to say.
Can understand the comments - the language is very deliberately as dry and dispassionate as possible. Make no mistake, I am very attached to this dog and love her dearly. (Focus more on the practically perfect bits please if the others cause you offense). We have put a lot of work and effort into her and she is very much a loved, involved part of the family.
I take a (very little) bit of umbrage at fashion lead though: She is not in any way a "status" dog for us. She is a rehome though - I suspect her breeders and first owners were more fashion lead (came from a caaahhhncil estate in filton). She was rehomed to give her a decent loving home (which she has, possibly despite impressions). I would have thought that the mongrelness would relieve / remove any of the possibly of pedigree "highly strungness" (for lack of a more eloquent phrase)
If doing "anything" for them involves inflicting a lifetime of pain, discomfort or on-lead walking for a big dog that loves to run, then thats a no thanks for me. (whether 17, 170 or 1700 quid)
The money being right on the limit of affordability obviously plays a part. PDSA etc are certainly explorable avenues which may be useful, IF it is the right thing to do.
Growing up in a country environment where dogs were free, readily replaceable and lasted as long as they lasted may give me a slightly different mindset to some others. My family has always had many dearly loved, looked after and respected pets (of many types and flavours) over the years - but we have never been particually "precious" about them.
So does anyone have any experience with cruciate ligament repairs, inparticualar their effectiveness, intrusiveness and longevity?
I take a (very little) bit of umbrage at fashion lead though: She is not in any way a "status" dog for us. She is a rehome though - I suspect her breeders and first owners were more fashion lead (came from a caaahhhncil estate in filton). She was rehomed to give her a decent loving home (which she has, possibly despite impressions). I would have thought that the mongrelness would relieve / remove any of the possibly of pedigree "highly strungness" (for lack of a more eloquent phrase)
If doing "anything" for them involves inflicting a lifetime of pain, discomfort or on-lead walking for a big dog that loves to run, then thats a no thanks for me. (whether 17, 170 or 1700 quid)
The money being right on the limit of affordability obviously plays a part. PDSA etc are certainly explorable avenues which may be useful, IF it is the right thing to do.
Growing up in a country environment where dogs were free, readily replaceable and lasted as long as they lasted may give me a slightly different mindset to some others. My family has always had many dearly loved, looked after and respected pets (of many types and flavours) over the years - but we have never been particually "precious" about them.
So does anyone have any experience with cruciate ligament repairs, inparticualar their effectiveness, intrusiveness and longevity?
essexplumber said:
...... My friends Staffy bh had her cruciate go at a young age and she has been perfect ever since so its in no way a life changing injury.
Thats useful, thanks.h had her cruciate go at a young age and she has been perfect ever since so its in no way a life changing injury.essexplumber said:
If she has the op you may have to reign her in a bit in future to prevent a reoccourance of the injury.
That is a real concern - she really really likes to run hard and fast. Not sure I can teach her to run at only 80%! It is (or certainly has been so far) lead on OR running. She's binary - no middle ground.essexplumber said:
Again OP, I appologise for seeming so blunt and I hope a way can be found.
No offense taken - and thanks for the help.scdan4 said:
That is a real concern - she really really likes to run hard and fast. Not sure I can teach her to run at only 80%! It is (or certainly has been so far) lead on OR running. She's binary - no middle ground.
My mum's lurcher is the same, and this is by far the hardest part of the exercise really. Where she walks is open moorland/woodland so there's no middle ground. Do you have any friends with well enclosed paddocks/fields to assist the rehabilitation process?
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