Dog training - shock collars?
Discussion
I'm not a fan of 'gadgets' since I think the problem is that the dog thinks it only needs to behave while wearing the shock collar / halti / anti-bark collar, whatever... and therefore doesn't really learn anything.
Reward-based training is far more effective in my experience, as well as kinder.
Reward-based training is far more effective in my experience, as well as kinder.
Mobile Chicane said:
I'm not a fan of 'gadgets' since I think the problem is that the dog thinks it only needs to behave while wearing the shock collar / halti / anti-bark collar, whatever... and therefore doesn't really learn anything.
Reward-based training is far more effective in my experience, as well as kinder.
What sort of 'reward'? Food? Bad idea, surely, as said pooch thinks at some point "hmm, master ain't got the grub, I can't be bovvered"?Reward-based training is far more effective in my experience, as well as kinder.
Jasandjules said:
Well, would like to be shocked in that way? Would you shock your kids if they did something wrong?
What I get up to in the privacy of my own home is my business...lol.No kids.
Playing devils advocate here...besides, these are animals, not people. Leccy fences teach cattle, sheep, horses, and dogs where not to go. No?
Caractacus said:
Mobile Chicane said:
I'm not a fan of 'gadgets' since I think the problem is that the dog thinks it only needs to behave while wearing the shock collar / halti / anti-bark collar, whatever... and therefore doesn't really learn anything.
Reward-based training is far more effective in my experience, as well as kinder.
What sort of 'reward'? Food? Bad idea, surely, as said pooch thinks at some point "hmm, master ain't got the grub, I can't be bovvered"?Reward-based training is far more effective in my experience, as well as kinder.
Best consult a trainer who is qualified in this, and can advise on your dog's specific issues. Incidentally, this may involve training 'you' as much as the dog.
Nick-something-or-other (?) on here seems to know his stuff, and will hopefully see your post
Boundary fences are the only time I could ever consider the idea of using electric shock methods. Even then for dogs I think it's pushing it.
I can see absolutely no benefit in using shock collars unless you want to instill a fear based response in your dog because that is what is most likely to happen.
Honestly I'd be dubious of any trainer who'd recommend there usr so casually.
I can see absolutely no benefit in using shock collars unless you want to instill a fear based response in your dog because that is what is most likely to happen.
Honestly I'd be dubious of any trainer who'd recommend there usr so casually.
Call herself a trainer? If thats how she trains a dog then she is totally in the wrong business.
The trouble is with these things is how many times are you going to press it? Once? Twice? Keep it held down?
Dog fails to pick up ball? Shock? Dog fails to fetch ball? Shock?
Should be banned.
The trouble is with these things is how many times are you going to press it? Once? Twice? Keep it held down?
Dog fails to pick up ball? Shock? Dog fails to fetch ball? Shock?
Should be banned.
Morningside said:
Call herself a trainer? If thats how she trains a dog then she is totally in the wrong business.
The trouble is with these things is how many times are you going to press it? Once? Twice? Keep it held down?
Dog fails to pick up ball? Shock? Dog fails to fetch ball? Shock?
Should be banned.
From my chat with her it's only used for 'bad' responses, as in a dog that barks far too much out of habit. Of course I firmly believe in praise based training, however one of my dogs barks and barks and barks. I can't seem to get her to stop. The other dog is very quiet in comparison. The trouble is with these things is how many times are you going to press it? Once? Twice? Keep it held down?
Dog fails to pick up ball? Shock? Dog fails to fetch ball? Shock?
Should be banned.
Also from my chat with her it sounds like it's an automated collar, so only gives a 'static electricity' type zap when said pooch barks.
Caractacus said:
...
So only gives a 'static electricity' type zap when said pooch barks.
Try sticking your fingers on one and see what its like or wrap it round your wrist. Also dont believe the 'thick fur' excuse as they usually have prongs to touch the skin.So only gives a 'static electricity' type zap when said pooch barks.
Also some dogs 'yelp' causing the collar to shock again.
At least Wales have some sense.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8584028.stm
Caractacus said:
Playing devils advocate here...besides, these are animals, not people.
Which is why they should be treated well.... Or, playing devil's advocate - should we also beat them with a stick if they misbehave? What about skin them alive? After all, they are "only animals".
Morningside said:
Try sticking your fingers on one and see what its like or wrap it round your wrist. Also dont believe the 'thick fur' excuse as they usually have prongs to touch the skin.
Also some dogs 'yelp' causing the collar to shock again.
At least Wales have some sense.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8584028.stm
Indeed, I'd do that without hesitation. I'd happily put it round my neck to check it out properly. The 'yelp' after the initial 'zap' is a very good point. Also some dogs 'yelp' causing the collar to shock again.
At least Wales have some sense.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8584028.stm
Jasandjules said:
Caractacus said:
Playing devils advocate here...besides, these are animals, not people.
Which is why they should be treated well.... Or, playing devil's advocate - should we also beat them with a stick if they misbehave? What about skin them alive? After all, they are "only animals".
Should leccy fences be banned? You're getting overly emotive with your last comment which is just plain daft. They are animals, and if it's ok for horses, sheep, cattle (some of which are indeed pets) to be zapped by grunty leccy fences...
Electric fences are a completely different thing to electric collars - they are used to mark a boundary only - not to change behaviour of the animal.
Just like something going wrong with a car, what you see or hear is the symptom, not the cause... A dog barking excessively is doing that for a reason - the proper (and permanent) solution is to eliminate the cause, not attack the symptom.
The most common reason for excessive barking is attention seeking... Dog barks, you shout at it (thereby giving the dog your attention), dog thinks, 'wow, this is cool' (dogs are even more attention seekers than people on PH or Facebook, believe it or not) and barks again.. you shout again and a habit is formed...
This isn't the only reason dogs bark, of course, but imagine the scenario where every time you called your wife/husband, you got a "yes dear" response, for several years, then suddenly, one day you got a painful electric shock, instead... Would you trust your wife/husband quite as much, for a while?
Remember dogs don't really care whether you say "good boy" or "shut the f
k up"... They don't understand English (or any other human language, for that matter), but they got your attention - their reward!!!
Try ignoring the dog when it barks, see what happens...
Just like something going wrong with a car, what you see or hear is the symptom, not the cause... A dog barking excessively is doing that for a reason - the proper (and permanent) solution is to eliminate the cause, not attack the symptom.
The most common reason for excessive barking is attention seeking... Dog barks, you shout at it (thereby giving the dog your attention), dog thinks, 'wow, this is cool' (dogs are even more attention seekers than people on PH or Facebook, believe it or not) and barks again.. you shout again and a habit is formed...
This isn't the only reason dogs bark, of course, but imagine the scenario where every time you called your wife/husband, you got a "yes dear" response, for several years, then suddenly, one day you got a painful electric shock, instead... Would you trust your wife/husband quite as much, for a while?
Remember dogs don't really care whether you say "good boy" or "shut the f
k up"... They don't understand English (or any other human language, for that matter), but they got your attention - their reward!!!Try ignoring the dog when it barks, see what happens...
Caractacus said:
Now, if you're going to quote, use it all. Don't take it out of context fella.
Should leccy fences be banned? You're getting overly emotive with your last comment which is just plain daft. They are animals, and if it's ok for horses, sheep, cattle (some of which are indeed pets) to be zapped by grunty leccy fences...
Firstly, I don't see how a leccy fence is in any way similar to a shock collar so it wasn't out of context to my mind. Should leccy fences be banned? You're getting overly emotive with your last comment which is just plain daft. They are animals, and if it's ok for horses, sheep, cattle (some of which are indeed pets) to be zapped by grunty leccy fences...
I don't use leccy fences for my dogs nor do I think "it's ok" to do so. The farmers I know don't use leccy fences either for various reasons which do not sound nice at all.
Plus, if you want to push it, you can argue that an electric fence is to protect animals rather than simply a punishment.
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