I am now a Beekeeper!!

[Jambo85]

dickymint said:

Not clipped - I'm still in two minds about clipping. Besides at the time I only had one known Queen and she was safe and sound in her new hive with only one frame of brood and some nurse bees along with all the flying bees. All the other frames were brand new with just some melted wax brushed on. Basically she was going nowhere.

Believe that last bit at your peril

Particularly if your split is quite late in the swarm preparation process (sealed queen cells) it is quite common for them to swarm in exactly the situation you describe.

Clipping is good damage limitation IMO.

[dickymint]

Jambo85 said:

dickymint said:

Not clipped - I'm still in two minds about clipping. Besides at the time I only had one known Queen and she was safe and sound in her new hive with only one frame of brood and some nurse bees along with all the flying bees. All the other frames were brand new with just some melted wax brushed on. Basically she was going nowhere.

Believe that last bit at your peril

Particularly if your split is quite late in the swarm preparation process (sealed queen cells) it is quite common for them to swarm in exactly the situation you describe.

Clipping is good damage limitation IMO.

The way i see it is the Queen has no say in the matter. Once they make their mind up they're off if She can't follow she may fall and not make it back home. It's a tough call but clipping can only buy you time. So with a strict 7 day inspection it's up to us to intervene - easy for me as they're only down the end of my garden

[Jambo85]

That’s true to an extent, but if the queen doesn’t follow the workers will return home.

What Clipping does pretty much guarantee is that a prime swarm isn’t going to end up in a neighbours chimney, the worst you are likely to lose is a cast, which is highly unlikely to survive in the wild.

[CharlesdeGaulle]

I don't understand a word of this, but it's utterly compelling stuff.

[pequod]

I'm considering investing in a start-up bee keeping/honey production (Manuka) company in NZ and I wonder if this is viable?

Could the PH collective please explain the ins and outs of this business or is it simply a hobby jobby for small producers?

As I understand it bees are important to maintain the natural order by pollination so there may be a NZ Govt fund to support such initiatives?

I have a neighbour in UK with a few hives who is happy to relocate one or two of his colonies but I wonder if there is a profit in bee keeping, with honey or other products such as candle making or waxworks?

Another question I have, should the workers be marked (corporate colours?) so that we can identify who is arriving at the hive or doesn't that matter?

Edited by pequod on Saturday 6th February 15:33

[Evanivitch]

pequod said:

I'm considering investing in a start-up bee keeping/honey production (Manuka) company in NZ and I wonder if this is viable?

To the best of my knowledge, bee keeping is largely done as part of diversified land use. If you want to make money from it, then you need agreement from several land owners miles apart and you need to be breeding and selling colonies.

pequod said:

As I understand it bees are important to maintain the natural order by pollination so there may be a NZ Govt fund to support such initiatives?

Doubtful. Whilst honey bees are pollinators, and there are commercial colonies in the USA that move between crops (repositioning hives 100, 1000s of miles following seasons) they aren't the best for ecological support. Solitary bees, flies and other insects are better for the ecology.

pequod said:

I have a neighbour in NZ with a few hives who is happy to relocate one or two of his colonies but I wonder if there is a profit in bee keeping, with honey or other products such as candle making or waxworks?

There's a wide market for by-products, it's a bit behind the trend of veganism though as bees are considered exploited...

The money is really in selling colonies and equipment.

pequod said:

Another question I have, should the workers be marked (corporate colours?) so that we can identify who is arriving at the hive or doesn't that matter?

There's about 40,000 bees in a good hive.

[Jambo85]

pequod said:

I'm considering investing in a start-up bee keeping/honey production (Manuka) company in NZ and I wonder if this is viable?

Could the PH collective please explain the ins and outs of this business or is it simply a hobby jobby for small producers?

As I understand it bees are important to maintain the natural order by pollination so there may be a NZ Govt fund to support such initiatives?

I have a neighbour in NZ with a few hives who is happy to relocate one or two of his colonies but I wonder if there is a profit in bee keeping, with honey or other products such as candle making or waxworks?

You can make money at it and manuka certianly benefits from a high price (whether this is justified and whether everything sold as manuka is actually manuka is a topic for another thread). The biggest obstacle to honey production in the UK is the weather, you just can't be sure of good flying weather when things are flowering. My perception is NZ might be better in this regard but you should check.

Like all food/agriculture there is a huge difference in bulk vs retail prices. A well presented jar of good quality honey in this country can sell for £25/kg or more. A bucket of it needing filtered, jarred and distributed, you'll be lucky to get a third of that. So you need to figure out where the sweet spot is between those two in terms of where to invest your time - if you're standing at a market stall trying to get top dollar then you're not working your bees as well as you could. Cheap imports of questionable honey keep a lid on prices of the good stuff.

Also you can start to see that for a decent household income you need to produce rather a lot of honey, even if you assume a 50% gross margin which is unrealistic. I'm ecstatic when I have a colony which produces 50 kg in a season, so you can do the math on how many colonies you need to have for a decent income.

For every 100 kg of honey you produce you're unlikely to end up with more than about 1 kg of wax, so don't pin your hopes on that.

Anyway - to sum up - it's possible to make money but a get rich quick scheme it is not! I reckon a viable honey farming operation in this country to provide one person a modest income needs in excess of 300 hives. Cost per colony - say £200. You would need to know what you were doing and not be shy of hard work 7 days per week 12 hrs per day in the summer to keep on top of 300 colonies.

pequod said:

Another question I have, should the workers be marked (corporate colours?) so that we can identify who is arriving at the hive or doesn't that matter?

Workers only live 6 weeks and there are tens of thousands in each hive so I can't see a good ROI on that initiative

[pequod]

Thanks both, for your replies.

To clarify, this idea has come from my family in NZ who have been successful in the past with other investments, so I have given this new diversification of their business empire due regard.

I have no idea about bee keeping on a commercial scale (or amateur), but from what you both say, there are possibilities to make a success of this venture in NZ given we have the land for the number of bee colonies needed to sustain them.

I like the sound of £25/kg trade, however I see Holland & Barratt are selling Manuka Honey products for 4x that retail!

Any diseases I should know about which could affect the remote NZ colonies?

[Jambo85]

Yeah when I was on about £25/kg I was thinking of UK honeys. Manuka enjoys a premium, though quite how much they are selling at £100/kg I’d be interested to know - you’re clearly not going to shift a huge volume at that price at your local market. And there’s the small matter of shipping it to the other side of the world in that case

[Jambo85]

I’d guess that the pests/diseases will be the same as here - varroa and European and American foulbrood but verify that with some local experts.

It’s a certainty that you should budget for treatment and losses.

[pequod]

Jambo85 said:

Yeah when I was on about £25/kg I was thinking of UK honeys. Manuka enjoys a premium, though quite how much they are selling at £100/kg I’d be interested to know - you’re clearly not going to shift a huge volume at that price at your local market. And there’s the small matter of shipping it to the other side of the world in that case

I'm told the future market is in the FE? Shipping costs to the USA/Europe for the premium stuff may not be an issue but that is another consideration.

Thanks for your info, much appreciated.

[dickymint]

pequod said:

Thanks both, for your replies.

To clarify, this idea has come from my family in NZ who have been successful in the past with other investments, so I have given this new diversification of their business empire due regard.

I have no idea about bee keeping on a commercial scale (or amateur), but from what you both say, there are possibilities to make a success of this venture in NZ given we have the land for the number of bee colonies needed to sustain them.

I like the sound of £25/kg trade, however I see Holland & Barratt are selling Manuka Honey products for 4x that retail!

Any diseases I should know about which could affect the remote NZ colonies?

When you say "investment" I take you are considering just putting some money into the venture with no input into what happens? Does your family have any knowledge of bees? Does your family have any knowledge of bees or are they in turn investing in someone else?. TBH there are too many unknowns for anybody to say on here if it's a money spinner for you.

As regards Manuka my view is that it's a total rip off for the end user. From what I've been taught (and read) is that Manuka honey failed as a viable "industry" because to be frank it tastes like st. It was only due to some very clever marketing as regards to health properties that it ever took off. I'd also ask your family if they are looking to sell "raw" honey.

Anyhow good luck if you invest as obviously (going by retail price) somebody is making a killing. But is it the beekeeper

Edit: Here's a biased but interesting (if you read between the lines) video on Manuka.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6bGZXk6F2E&fe...

Edited by dickymint on Thursday 4th February 22:09

[pequod]

dickymint said:

pequod said:

Thanks both, for your replies.

To clarify, this idea has come from my family in NZ who have been successful in the past with other investments, so I have given this new diversification of their business empire due regard.

I have no idea about bee keeping on a commercial scale (or amateur), but from what you both say, there are possibilities to make a success of this venture in NZ given we have the land for the number of bee colonies needed to sustain them.

I like the sound of £25/kg trade, however I see Holland & Barratt are selling Manuka Honey products for 4x that retail!

Any diseases I should know about which could affect the remote NZ colonies?

When you say "investment" I take you are considering just putting some money into the venture with no input into what happens? Does your family have any knowledge of bees? Does your family have any knowledge of bees or are they in turn investing in someone else?. TBH there are too many unknowns for anybody to say on here if it's a money spinner for you.

As regards Manuka my view is that it's a total rip off for the end user. From what I've been taught (and read) is that Manuka honey failed as a viable "industry" because to be frank it tastes like st. It was only due to some very clever marketing as regards to health properties that it ever took off. I'd also ask your family if they are looking to sell "raw" honey.

Anyhow good luck if you invest as obviously (going by retail price) somebody is making a killing. But is it the beekeeper

Edit: Here's a biased but interesting (if you read between the lines) video on Manuka.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6bGZXk6F2E&fe...

Edited by dickymint on Thursday 4th February 22:09

Sorry DM, just seen your post.

This is a possible investment on my part, but as its 'family' who are proposing a new venture, albeit acquiring a going concern with experienced commercial beekeepers and the opportunity to expand the final product markets in the Far East, I have asked the question here to gain some insight into beekeeping.

I also asked my neighbour, here in the UK, his opinion (as he is an Apiarist) and he kindly offered me two of his hives relocated into my orchard which he will tend, but I can gain some first hand experience of bee keeping should I wish, and to see if the output from the orchard improves with a colony or two of local pollinators right on the job!

P

[dickymint]

pequod said:

dickymint said:

pequod said:

Thanks both, for your replies.

To clarify, this idea has come from my family in NZ who have been successful in the past with other investments, so I have given this new diversification of their business empire due regard.

I have no idea about bee keeping on a commercial scale (or amateur), but from what you both say, there are possibilities to make a success of this venture in NZ given we have the land for the number of bee colonies needed to sustain them.

I like the sound of £25/kg trade, however I see Holland & Barratt are selling Manuka Honey products for 4x that retail!

Any diseases I should know about which could affect the remote NZ colonies?

When you say "investment" I take you are considering just putting some money into the venture with no input into what happens? Does your family have any knowledge of bees? Does your family have any knowledge of bees or are they in turn investing in someone else?. TBH there are too many unknowns for anybody to say on here if it's a money spinner for you.

As regards Manuka my view is that it's a total rip off for the end user. From what I've been taught (and read) is that Manuka honey failed as a viable "industry" because to be frank it tastes like st. It was only due to some very clever marketing as regards to health properties that it ever took off. I'd also ask your family if they are looking to sell "raw" honey.

Anyhow good luck if you invest as obviously (going by retail price) somebody is making a killing. But is it the beekeeper

Edit: Here's a biased but interesting (if you read between the lines) video on Manuka.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6bGZXk6F2E&fe...

Edited by dickymint on Thursday 4th February 22:09

Sorry DM, just seen your post.

This is a possible investment on my part, but as its 'family' who are proposing a new venture, albeit acquiring a going concern with experienced commercial beekeepers and the opportunity to expand the final product markets in the Far East, I have asked the question here to gain some insight into beekeeping.

I also asked my neighbour, here in the UK, his opinion (as he is an Apiarist) and he kindly offered me two of his hives relocated into my orchard which he will tend, but I can gain some first hand experience of bee keeping should I wish, and to see if the output from the orchard improves with a colony or two of local pollinators right on the job!

P

No problem but this confused me when you said ...."I have a neighbour in NZ with a few hives who is happy to relocate one or two of his colonies" that's a long way to relocate bees

[XCP]

Jambo85 said:

SlowcoachIII said:

I’ve heard Mason bees mentioned and I’ve read that they don’t produce honey or beeswax. Out of interest, what do they do for food storage?

Most (all?) bees feed on pollen and nectar the same as honey bees but what you’ve probably read is that they don’t make honey or wax in a quantity that is useful to humans. Basically because they are solitary and don’t overwinter as a colony of thousands. Rather lone queens or larvae even. Not all make wax - leafcutter bees make their homes out of circles cut from rose leaves!

Just received the result of our tubes.

8 tubes, containing 55 healthy cocoons.
we will receive some to hatch out in March

[pequod]

dickymint said:

No problem but this confused me when you said ...."I have a neighbour in NZ UK with a few hives who is happy to relocate one or two of his colonies" that's a long way to relocate bees

Thanks, and my apologies for the confusion! Now corrected.

[Evanivitch]

We had a mason-type bee setup nest in a parasol that hadn't been opened for a couple of weeks. When the parasol opened we had a fantastic cross section of the chambers stuffed with bright yellow pollen and a tiny larvae in each one. I did my best to try and relocate them.

[Jambo85]

That's lovely!

[Jambo85]

pequod said:

Thanks both, for your replies.

To clarify, this idea has come from my family in NZ who have been successful in the past with other investments, so I have given this new diversification of their business empire due regard.

I have no idea about bee keeping on a commercial scale (or amateur), but from what you both say, there are possibilities to make a success of this venture in NZ given we have the land for the number of bee colonies needed to sustain them.

I like the sound of £25/kg trade, however I see Holland & Barratt are selling Manuka Honey products for 4x that retail!

Any diseases I should know about which could affect the remote NZ colonies?

Hi again Pequod - something your NZ associates may want to look in to is that NZ is currently the ONLY country on the planet that bees can be imported from to the UK! Previously a lot came in every year from Italy and elsewhere in Europe but Brexit has knackered it for now.

Likely this will be resolved in time so maybe only a temporary opportunity.

[dickymint]

Jambo85 said:

Hi again Pequod - something your NZ associates may want to look in to is that NZ is currently the ONLY country on the planet that bees can be imported from to the UK! Previously a lot came in every year from Italy and elsewhere in Europe but Brexit has knackered it for now.

Likely this will be resolved in time so maybe only a temporary opportunity.

These may help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_1LWn8cHYk&t=...

and



First link doesn't work unless you cut and paste sorry.