Dog breeder - Puppy returned - SOGA?
Discussion
LordHaveMurci said:
LimaDelta said:
Not my own (obviously), but mainly for finding wounded deer (thankfully very rarely used) when stalking.
Also have a couple of friends with gun dogs of various flavours.
ETA:
My point is - my experience has been based on trained and (fairly) well behaved adult dogs, not excitable bity puppies.
My dog is (now) a well trained gun dog breed, rescued at 11mths old. My previous dog of 14yrs was a well trained working gun dog. Also have a couple of friends with gun dogs of various flavours.
ETA:
My point is - my experience has been based on trained and (fairly) well behaved adult dogs, not excitable bity puppies.
Edited by LimaDelta on Friday 7th July 15:32
Does it make me precious being concerned about animal welfare? Shelters are full of animals because of people that bought one on a whim thinking (or not) that it would be a great idea.
Amazing that with all your experience of working animals that you never once thought a puppy might be hard work.
LimaDelta said:
LordHaveMurci said:
LimaDelta said:
Not my own (obviously), but mainly for finding wounded deer (thankfully very rarely used) when stalking.
Also have a couple of friends with gun dogs of various flavours.
ETA:
My point is - my experience has been based on trained and (fairly) well behaved adult dogs, not excitable bity puppies.
My dog is (now) a well trained gun dog breed, rescued at 11mths old. My previous dog of 14yrs was a well trained working gun dog. Also have a couple of friends with gun dogs of various flavours.
ETA:
My point is - my experience has been based on trained and (fairly) well behaved adult dogs, not excitable bity puppies.
Edited by LimaDelta on Friday 7th July 15:32
Does it make me precious being concerned about animal welfare? Shelters are full of animals because of people that bought one on a whim thinking (or not) that it would be a great idea.
Amazing that with all your experience of working animals that you never once thought a puppy might be hard work.
Charlie Hoskins said:
LimaDelta said:
LordHaveMurci said:
LimaDelta said:
Not my own (obviously), but mainly for finding wounded deer (thankfully very rarely used) when stalking.
Also have a couple of friends with gun dogs of various flavours.
ETA:
My point is - my experience has been based on trained and (fairly) well behaved adult dogs, not excitable bity puppies.
My dog is (now) a well trained gun dog breed, rescued at 11mths old. My previous dog of 14yrs was a well trained working gun dog. Also have a couple of friends with gun dogs of various flavours.
ETA:
My point is - my experience has been based on trained and (fairly) well behaved adult dogs, not excitable bity puppies.
Edited by LimaDelta on Friday 7th July 15:32
Does it make me precious being concerned about animal welfare? Shelters are full of animals because of people that bought one on a whim thinking (or not) that it would be a great idea.
Amazing that with all your experience of working animals that you never once thought a puppy might be hard work.
As an owner we did what we needed to and made the responsible decision to remove the puppy from our lives, rather than risk living with the consequences of our youngest being scarred for life. A small risk perhaps, but it does happen.
Short of reading the usual books (Pippa Mattinson Happy Puppy Handbook), browsing the Labrador forums and talking to other owners, how would you suggest one should prepare oneself for puppy ownership? How long do you think I should have given it? How many bites to your childs face were tolerable when you trained your puppies?
LimaDelta said:
facial lacerations... furry little s
t eater... The point of the thread was to highlight the lying puppy farmer in Northallerton.
It's done more than that. You don't seem the sort of person who should have dogs so please don't 'leave it a couple of years', perhaps just forget about it entirely.t eater... The point of the thread was to highlight the lying puppy farmer in Northallerton. ReaderScars said:
LimaDelta said:
facial lacerations... furry little st eater... The point of the thread was to highlight the lying puppy farmer in Northallerton.
It's done more than that. You don't seem the sort of person who should have dogs so please don't 'leave it a couple of years', perhaps just forget about it entirely.t eater... The point of the thread was to highlight the lying puppy farmer in Northallerton. LimaDelta said:
How many bites to your childs face were tolerable when you trained your puppies?
for a start a quick google will show puppies and young children don't always mix. when puppies are teething they bite. you get around this by segregating space and keeping the child away until you have instructed a form of obedience in the puppy. the puppy probably came from a house without young children, so common sense would say they don't come already trained. just research a bit more if you do it again.labs are quite boisterous as well, so again maybe not best suited for small children.
Charlie Hoskins said:
^^^You beat me to it.
Just as there are people who shouldn't be behind the wheel or have children, there are those who are not compatible with animals.
You went to a puppy farmer !!! I see....
Oh, we have plenty of animals here, cats and hens mainly. All are happy and healthy and enjoy playing in the gardens with the children. Can't see there being a dog in the picture anymore though. Certainly not while the kids are still so young. Just as there are people who shouldn't be behind the wheel or have children, there are those who are not compatible with animals.
You went to a puppy farmer !!! I see....
LimaDelta said:
... I am happy to admit ignorance when it comes to pet dogs, my experience is with them purely as working animals....
Is that why you were happy to spunk out £850 to a puppy factory for a fashion accessory dog, rather than pay a tenner for an unwanted mongrel pup from a local rag? Did you think money bought better manners, better attitude, less sharp teeth?Edited by King Herald on Tuesday 11th July 17:42
If I was the breeder I think I would have rinsed you of a couple of hundered quid purely to teach you a lesson. Puppies take time and effort to get them to be well behaved, if you can't be arsed to do the very basics then to lose a few hundered quid might make you think next time. It took about a week to stop our Spaniel to stop nipping us when she was wanting to play.
Dogs and children need work, our GSD had 3 years of being our 'baby' until our son arrived and we were naturally keen for them to live well together.
She struggled with the unpredictability of a baby, not in an aggressive way but if disturbed she might move quickly and that often meant he was bumped about. He is now a very active 2 yr old and she within reason accepts all that he dishes out and knows that she sits beneath him in the pack. She comes up to his room every bedtime and he won't go to bed until he gives her a 'kiss'.
She struggled with the unpredictability of a baby, not in an aggressive way but if disturbed she might move quickly and that often meant he was bumped about. He is now a very active 2 yr old and she within reason accepts all that he dishes out and knows that she sits beneath him in the pack. She comes up to his room every bedtime and he won't go to bed until he gives her a 'kiss'.
Not wanting to appear all high & mighty but the OP made a mistake, sought to correct it & got spun a crock from what appears to be the wrong sort of dog breeder.
When we got our first dog, a pedigree terrier, the breeder was amazing. Home visit (160 mile round trip), explained about not showing or breeding from the pup & we had to sign a contract to that effect. We were happy to do so.
Our next dog was a rescue terrier, who turned out to be epileptic. We've been on our own from the start.
Life lessons learned. Beating people over the head for mistakes is not really helpful, is it?
What purpose does it serve? All of the explanations offered could easily be done without the aggressive tone.
OP didn't help with the plop comment but still.
What is this, New Pets & Enragement?
When we got our first dog, a pedigree terrier, the breeder was amazing. Home visit (160 mile round trip), explained about not showing or breeding from the pup & we had to sign a contract to that effect. We were happy to do so.
Our next dog was a rescue terrier, who turned out to be epileptic. We've been on our own from the start.
Life lessons learned. Beating people over the head for mistakes is not really helpful, is it?
What purpose does it serve? All of the explanations offered could easily be done without the aggressive tone.
OP didn't help with the plop comment but still.
What is this, New Pets & Enragement?
Smiler. said:
Not wanting to appear all high & mighty but the OP made a mistake, sought to correct it & got spun a crock from what appears to be the wrong sort of dog breeder.
.
?
Buying from a breeder is the first mistake! .
?
Sorry to harp on about this, but is there a shortage of dogs in this country? Are we running out? Do dogs have an issue breeding and need guidance, that is extremely expensive?
King Herald said:
Smiler. said:
Not wanting to appear all high & mighty but the OP made a mistake, sought to correct it & got spun a crock from what appears to be the wrong sort of dog breeder.
.
?
Buying from a breeder is the first mistake! .
?
Sorry to harp on about this, but is there a shortage of dogs in this country? Are we running out? Do dogs have an issue breeding and need guidance, that is extremely expensive?
Don't answer - it was a pointless retort.
You do realise that without breeders, some breeds will cease to exist. Maybe that's not a bad thing in your book. I'm fine with your opinion but it's not mine.
Also, what about honest, reputable breeders? Of the not to sought after breeds? Why should their livelihood be shut down?
I agree with your sentiment about adoption being better but until serious legislation is enacted & policed to shut down the puppy farms & rouge breeders, the only thing you can do is educate. Reputable breeders will not fall into that category & I see no issue in acquiring a dog from them.
Beating someone over the head is not the way to win them around to your view, is it?
I encountered a similar experience, a lady I met walking her puppy was having similar problems of biting. I gave as much advice as I could and did some training with the puppy [cocker dog].
Two weeks later, I watched the dog interact with both her and her daughter. Regretably, whilst there some improvement, she was unable to be the pack leader and control the dog. She disappeared off the face of the earth and next I knew it was in a local dog rescue.
Unfortunately some people are not up to being an owner of a puppy, it is an onerous task, especially for working breeds.
To the OP, given you wrote asking the PH collective about dogs and SOGA, I am puzzled why you didn't ask the same collective for advice on the puppy's behaviours, before taking him / her back to the breeder. There are some knowledgeable people on here that could have helped.
Two weeks later, I watched the dog interact with both her and her daughter. Regretably, whilst there some improvement, she was unable to be the pack leader and control the dog. She disappeared off the face of the earth and next I knew it was in a local dog rescue.
Unfortunately some people are not up to being an owner of a puppy, it is an onerous task, especially for working breeds.
To the OP, given you wrote asking the PH collective about dogs and SOGA, I am puzzled why you didn't ask the same collective for advice on the puppy's behaviours, before taking him / her back to the breeder. There are some knowledgeable people on here that could have helped.
Dogs and young children do mix, frequently and without injury. I have two dogs and two young dogs that show this.
Puppies go for faces for various reasons, curiosity, seeking food as they would from Mum and general over exuberance from being used to playing with litter mates, all normal puppy behaviour. Very rarely real aggression which would cause a proper injury, I hope that wasn't the case.
Anyway still think your breeder dealt with the situation poorly. One of those life lessons I guess!
Puppies go for faces for various reasons, curiosity, seeking food as they would from Mum and general over exuberance from being used to playing with litter mates, all normal puppy behaviour. Very rarely real aggression which would cause a proper injury, I hope that wasn't the case.
Anyway still think your breeder dealt with the situation poorly. One of those life lessons I guess!
Charlie Hoskins said:
All dogs require perseverance in the early stages. It can be challenging and, if you're not the type to relish a challenge, do the decent thing and buy a goldfish.
The more time and attention you invest in bonding, training and exercise, the better mannered and well adjusted the dog.
A bit like kids really.
Between the forums, books and Youtube theres just no excuse. The info is in abundance.
There are some new owners lacking the necessary desire to learn as they go, to see the signs of boredom, neglect and teething, and to respond accordingly, many of whom have a dog simply for the sake of having a dog, status symbols often.
The novelty soon wears off and the animal mooches around looking for something to occupy himself such as chewing the rug or tipping over the kitchen bin.
Cue the hastily written Gumtree ad seeking a 'Forever Home' for our cute 'little boy' aged 4 months.
These people should be visited by the RSPCA, the dog removed and receive a ban 'until they've grown up a bit'.
I've been training gun dogs for a number of years now and like any responsible dog lover, I think much more needs to be done to discourage the poor decisions to 'get a dog' being made in the first instance.
Its a commitment to your new companion. For life.
sadly its true. I feel sorry for these dogs ending up for free on facebook The more time and attention you invest in bonding, training and exercise, the better mannered and well adjusted the dog.
A bit like kids really.
Between the forums, books and Youtube theres just no excuse. The info is in abundance.
There are some new owners lacking the necessary desire to learn as they go, to see the signs of boredom, neglect and teething, and to respond accordingly, many of whom have a dog simply for the sake of having a dog, status symbols often.
The novelty soon wears off and the animal mooches around looking for something to occupy himself such as chewing the rug or tipping over the kitchen bin.
Cue the hastily written Gumtree ad seeking a 'Forever Home' for our cute 'little boy' aged 4 months.
These people should be visited by the RSPCA, the dog removed and receive a ban 'until they've grown up a bit'.
I've been training gun dogs for a number of years now and like any responsible dog lover, I think much more needs to be done to discourage the poor decisions to 'get a dog' being made in the first instance.
Its a commitment to your new companion. For life.
LordHaveMurci said:
Just a box ticking exercise for some people sadly. Got 2 kids, detached house, white Audi on lease, what are we missing? Oh, lets get a puppy 
usually a pug or French bulldog is required in this situationKing Herald said:
And then go get a rescue dog from a kennel, instead of wasting £850 on a fashion accessory whilst also encouraging the puppy factories!
If only that was possible. Rescuing a dog you need to complete so many forms and fit the "criteria"I work shifts 37.5hrs a week. Week 1 9-5 and weekend off week 2 3-9 & a Saturday. Now because the dog will be alone for more than 6 hours I am not able to get a rescue dog. They will not let me at all. I have a large home, secure garden & am able to give a dog everything it would ever want as I adore them and would do anything I can for it, but no because I work full time I am not allowed & wont pass a home check because of this. My only way to get a dog - get a puppy from a breeder who not check 75% of these things.
My mum who is retired but is under going chemo is ALSO in the same situation the difference being she cant walk for hours upon hours due to the treatments. Again due to this not allowing to re home a dog.
My argument is the dog learns the parents and the parents the dog. I would help take my mums dog out and she mine but this isn't considered at all.
My partner is a Veterinary nurse and cringes at all of this and some things she sees. Don't get me wrong the OP should of done more home work. Id of happily take the puppy off them I don't have kids and as people say "kids will be kids" same goes for puppies. Both need training - down to the owners.
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