Dangerous Dog Next Door!

[Autopilot]

Twiglets said:

I described the dog as a large staffy to the police as that’s what it looked like to me, anyone have any idea what it was?

Out of the banned breeds, the Pitbull and Dogo Argentino are the only ones that resemble a staffy in anyway but would say it's more likely to have ben a pit bull variant of some sort.

[Piha]

I do believe that the UK government states that " if your dog is a banned type depends on what it looks like, rather than its breed or name". It is a poor piece of legislation and has little support with animal experts.

I do expect it is enthusiastically applauded by certain daily national newspapers.......

[Twiglets]

Piha said:

I do believe that the UK government states that " if your dog is a banned type depends on what it looks like, rather than its breed or name". It is a poor piece of legislation and has little support with animal experts.

I do expect it is enthusiastically applauded by certain daily national newspapers.......

That’s what I believe happened with the one in the photograph, it was a couple of dog experts who independently identified it as a banned breed though, not the police so they do know what they’re looking at.

[Uncle John]

Twiglets said:

I’d advise you take no chances, our dog was torn to bits in our own back garden by a neighbour’s dog, turns out it had killed cats before and was a banned breed although we weren’t told what type. Unless you get attacked or fear for your life no crime has been committed so ‘luckily’ me and my wife both got bitten during the attack otherwise the police wouldn’t have got involved, dog on dog attacks are not a crime. Our case went to court after 8 months of waiting this week and the owner changed her plea to guilty that morning, the charges were...
Owning a dangerously out of control dog
Destruction of property (our dog)
Owning a banned breed.
The court ordered the dog to be destroyed thank god as just about everyone in the road was scared of it and were prepared to move if it came back. I described the dog as a large staffy to the police as that’s what it looked like to me, anyone have any idea what it was?

There are lot's of misjudged perceptions on what is a Pit Bull.

That's just a longer of leg Staffie, dont forget Pit Bulls are much taller and 10-12 kg's heavier. Quite a difference.

You know when you see a Pit Bull. And unfortunately in the less wholesome side of our society there is an underground trade in these things. There was a documentary recently showing trade of these things on various sink estates.

Also don't forget that a staffie/lab cross as one example, will resemble a PB.

I also cringe when I see some wannabee hardman walking along with his 'hard dog' on a thick metal chain...pricks.

My wife even had some knob ask her if we would like to 'cage' our dog (we have a staffie) against theirs while out for a walk. Glad it wasn't me he asked that to.

Staffies are known as 'nanny dogs', in that they look after the children of the family, which ours certainly did when they were young.

And another point, any dog can be aggressive and cause damage.

I know of a female Golden Retriever that tore apart a smaller dog because it walked into it's garden.

Observe next time you are down the park, smaller dogs barking at other dogs/children/people that are not known to them. The standard answer from the owners is 'It's alright he's friendly' which is the biggest load of guff ever.

What they really mean is 'He isn't friendly but he's only small so we let him get away with it' but that's not the point. The dog is being aggressive to others and is still quite capable of seriously injuring a child. If a big dog was doing this on a regular basis the police would be called.

To summarise, all dogs can be aggressive and cause injury regardless of size. All dogs can be aggressive if not trained/homed/socialised properly. All too often it's not the fault of the dog.


As I said at the beginning of this thread, it sounds like the owner is not fit to own a dog, so get in touch with the council dog warden and notify them of the situation.

[Unexpected Item In The Bagging Area]

As others have said, the only sensible way to deal with this situation is to let the people and bodies qualified and authorised to do so handle it. No one else's opinion matters.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Boosted LS1 said:

That's utter bks. All dogs have a number of primary drives, hunting, eating, shagging and survival. Some are better in different aspects. A dog doesn't have the concept of bad, love, hate, lust or jealousy etc. It's just a dog.

So is a hyena. No doubt some on here think if you lavished it with affection and treated it well, you could turn it into a nice family pet. Because generations of DNA driving it's behaviour don't matter.

[Boosted LS1]

My elderly collie got badly mauled by a staffie type. Unfortunately I wasn't bitten because as outlined above, the police simply aren't interested in dog on dog events. had i been bitten something may have been done about it.

That said, in almost 17 years of ownership and having met dozens of off lead staffies this was the only nut job we came across.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

durbster said:

For example, you say dogs bred to herd sheep instinctively herding sheep is evidence that a dog breed that has never been bred to be aggressive towards humans will be instinctively aggressive towards humans. It makes no sense.

I am saying they have been bred to be aggressive. I'm not convinced a dog can instantly tell a small child from another dog. As said, it's only a dog. You seem happy to ascribe to a mutt a level of logic and decision making that I'm not convinced they have.

[durbster]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

durbster said:

For example, you say dogs bred to herd sheep instinctively herding sheep is evidence that a dog breed that has never been bred to be aggressive towards humans will be instinctively aggressive towards humans. It makes no sense.

I am saying they have been bred to be aggressive.

Why on earth would somebody breed a dog to just be generally aggressive? It'd be useless for fighting so what purpose would that serve?

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I'm not convinced a dog can instantly tell a small child from another dog. As said, it's only a dog. You seem happy to ascribe to a mutt a level of logic and decision making that I'm not convinced they have.

OK, that's something that can be proven as it's falsifiable; if true, the number of dogs attacking children would be equivalent to the number of dogs attacking dogs. Do you have evidence of that?

Or you could prove it by showing sheepdogs will instinctively start rounding up children. Never heard of that.

Bear in mind, back when dogs were bred for fighting (several generations ago) they would have been predominantly owned by the working classes who tended to have small houses and large families i.e. lots of children. Would people breed dogs that are likely to kill their children?

Anyway, every objective and professional source says you're wrong, so I maintain that you just enjoy the attention on this.

And on topic, I would report it and make it known the dog's are not being exercised and have got out of the garden. If it's on record, it gives the authorities a lot more power if something does happen.

[alabbasi]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

How often have were heard this said by mortified owners whose dog has maimed or killed a child. Along with other stock phrases such as "he's never doe that before".

There is no reason for anyone to own a pit bull, or any other powerful dog, other than some pathetic ego boost. What does a 90lb pit bull give you that a cocker spaniel couldn't? Even if it transpires it's harmless, it puts the fear of god into everyone else. Which I suspect is most of the appeal for the owners. I've got a cat. I wouldn't have a puma, leopard or a tiger, even if I could.

As I indicated before, there are no bad dogs, just bad owners. Bad dog owners can plead ignorance just like anyone can who does something stupid. What does a 90lbs pit bull give me that a cocker spaniel couldn't? What kind stupid question is that? I didn't pick my dog at a pet shop, I found him and he made a great companion as any other dog would.You have a cat but would not have a puma, fair play, I wouldn't want a wolf or a hyena, a pitbull is a dog.If it puts the fear of god into you, it's because you've already made your mind up about the dog and the owner.

[durbster]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

So is a hyena. No doubt some on here think if you lavished it with affection and treated it well, you could turn it into a nice family pet. Because generations of DNA driving it's behaviour don't matter.

Sorry, aside from the fact they're not dogs, even your hyperbole fails the reality test.

Spotted hyena (Crocuta crocuta) coexisting at high density with people in Wukro district, northern Ethiopia
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S...

[TwigtheWonderkid]

alabbasi said:

As I indicated before, there are no bad dogs, just bad owners.

Lots of actual science disagrees.

http://www.animals24-7.org/2015/11/10/the-science-...

[Boosted LS1]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Boosted LS1 said:

That's utter bks. All dogs have a number of primary drives, hunting, eating, shagging and survival. Some are better in different aspects. A dog doesn't have the concept of bad, love, hate, lust or jealousy etc. It's just a dog.

So is a hyena. No doubt some on here think if you lavished it with affection and treated it well, you could turn it into a nice family pet. Because generations of DNA driving it's behaviour don't matter.

Well funnily enough I recently saw a documentary where locals were hand feeding wild hyena's and accepting them for what they are. Not one local has been attacked. Breed them for as long as we've had dogs and they probably could be tamed. They're social creatures after all. They're not dogs though but I see your POV.

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Wednesday 1st November 21:45

[Boosted LS1]

And the only reason a dog in the pit fights is because it's learned that it's going to be attacked. When they don't want to fight they're forced to. If pack animals fought all the time they would all be injured and unable to hunt hence why they use threat displays most of the time.

[alabbasi]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Lots of actual science disagrees.

http://www.animals24-7.org/2015/11/10/the-science-...

Just because it's on the internet, it doesn't make it true. This guy is an established fraud.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/douglas-anthony-coo...

[durbster]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

alabbasi said:

As I indicated before, there are no bad dogs, just bad owners.

Lots of actual science disagrees.

http://www.animals24-7.org/2015/11/10/the-science-...

Where's the science in that article?

Edit: found this about the Belyaev fox experiment. It doesn't support your position:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/ma...

Edited by durbster on Thursday 2nd November 08:48

[anonymous-user]

Hopefully the OP has been able to gleam something useful from some of the earlier comments on here. To that guy whose dog was killed I hope you got some justice for that. To say it would be horrific is an understatement. We too had a neighbour in the street whose dog would get out and roam. He was told in no uncertain terms to make sure it was better contained.

[Marky Mark88]

There has been some very useful comments on this thread, along with some humorous ones, so thank you all. I think I am going to speak to the dog liaison officer/warden anonymously tomorrow and get their advice. My mind keeps flitting from 'put a bigger fence up, it will be fine' to 'get the dog(s) taken away from her.' I think it boils down to the simple fact that should things go south, she is unable to control them. On more than one occasion she has had to call her son-in-law to come round and get the 'Pitbull' from the garden because he is being stubborn and refuses to come in. This lack of control is very worrying. I think a timely call to the Housing Association (once I find out which one it is) informing them of the problem and suggesting they carry out a routine 'inspection' may be the best way to go. This is also less likely to implicate us, as long as I leave it a couple of months or something. However I shall wait and see what the DLO/Warden says tomorrow.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

durbster said:

Or you could prove it by showing sheepdogs will instinctively start rounding up children. Never heard of that.

Really? That's exactly what my mates sheepdog will do, in the garden with the kids or in the park. It'll see kids running around and instinctively go into crouch mode. Of course kids think this is a hoot, as it appears to be a playful stance. They chase after the dog, which they can never catch, and the dog runs around in circles trying to herd up the kids and no doubt wondering how come they are so uncooperative.

The net result is loads of fun and exercise for kids and dog alike. He's a real favourite down at the park.

I'm surprised, as a dog expert, you've never heard of this type of behaviour.

[Autopilot]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

durbster said:

Or you could prove it by showing sheepdogs will instinctively start rounding up children. Never heard of that.

Really? That's exactly what my mates sheepdog will do, in the garden with the kids or in the park. It'll see kids running around and instinctively go into crouch mode. Of course kids think this is a hoot, as it appears to be a playful stance. They chase after the dog, which they can never catch, and the dog runs around in circles trying to herd up the kids and no doubt wondering how come they are so uncooperative.

The net result is loads of fun and exercise for kids and dog alike. He's a real favourite down at the park.

I'm surprised, as a dog expert, you've never heard of this type of behaviour.

I'm sure it's a real hoot right up until one of the kids gets nipped. That is how herding dogs control the herd.

Edited To Add - My friends Australian Cattle Dog does similar. It's not from working lines but it does instinctively herd people and dogs up when it's out on walks.

Edited by Autopilot on Thursday 2nd November 09:34