Pet insurance - is there value I can’t see...?
Discussion
Our 11 year old Westies insurance was getting stupidly expensive, with so many exclusions, that we knocked it down to £1k cover. Couple of months later he ruptured a cruciate ligament leaving us with a £5k bill. Insurance, after excess etc was deducted barely covered the cost of the initial xrays. Luckily we had the money available so it wasn't a big issue, but the amount of people I have spoken to since who have no insurance or savings to cover is quite surprising. I assume the only option then is the PDSA.
Red9zero said:
... but the amount of people I have spoken to since who have no insurance or savings to cover is quite surprising. I assume the only option then is the PDSA.
Or euthanasia. The PDSA only cover certain postcodes. In reality when it happens, we as vets do all we possibly can to find a charity that will take on the dog and have the owner sign it over to them, sometimes they might make a contribution if the owner can find most of the cost, but it is stressful for all involved and takes an awful lot of time and effort. Some owners flatly refuse and the animal is put to sleep.
I would say that it is entirely down to your personal circumstances, if you can afford a hefty bill or two, then no need. A well bred spaniel is relatively unlikely to throw large bills.
It's more these terribly bred brachycephalics that are currently horribly popular with people of less disposable income that really need insurance.
The amount of times that I have heard that "I can't afford insurance", I really have to bite my tongue to avoid telling them that they can't afford the dog if they can't afford the insurance.
In a nutshell;
Lifetime insurance, minimum of £4k PA for a small / mongrel dog, 7k PA for a medium / pure bred dog, more for a large dog or brachycephalic (pug, frenchie etc) or "teacup" or anything daft like that, and loads + a slush fund for a German Shepherd.
Most insurers hike the premiums in line with past history, some don't eg Petplan
Never change insurance without comprehending the implications ie anything previously mentioned in the clinical notes will not be covered going forward as considered pre-existing.
Insurance is a numbers game, margins are low as volume is high. The premium you pay for decent cover will not be much more than the average cost of claims of all equivalent pets.
Edited by jmsgld on Friday 31st December 13:45
Pet insurance used to be far better value a few years ago. I too can afford to shell out if needed, but when I got my first dog 8 years ago it seemed to make sense, not so much now.
First insurance policy for a Great Dane puppy 8 years ago was £55 a month for a cover limit of £12k on a lifetime policy.
Quote from same insurer for another Great Dane puppy a month ago was £105 a month for £10k cover on a lifetime policy.
Total cost of vet bills in 8 years of owning Great Danes:
So, for me, not much value in it these days. Your mileage may vary based on mutt/pedigree, postcode etc.
First insurance policy for a Great Dane puppy 8 years ago was £55 a month for a cover limit of £12k on a lifetime policy.
Quote from same insurer for another Great Dane puppy a month ago was £105 a month for £10k cover on a lifetime policy.
Total cost of vet bills in 8 years of owning Great Danes:
- Dog bitten by other dog - facial operations and plating/screws in jaw - £3700
- Splenectomy due to twisted spleen - £2500
- Pneumonia - 3 day stay in vet hospital - £1800
- 5 or 6 minor injuries/treatments that would all be below excess level or so close as to not bother claiming.
So, for me, not much value in it these days. Your mileage may vary based on mutt/pedigree, postcode etc.
I'm starting to question it each year now too as mine recently went to £720 and I thought that was crazy...that being said, over the last 5 years she (dog) has had 3 operations, all being around the 4.5k mark so I'm still up on the deal essentially.
Mine is with Petplan, £250 excess, everything covered apart from known existing illnesses when taken out with a limit on the number of claims each year plus a limit on the amount but I've not hit it yet.
After reading this, I think I'm on a pretty good deal to be fair!
Mine is with Petplan, £250 excess, everything covered apart from known existing illnesses when taken out with a limit on the number of claims each year plus a limit on the amount but I've not hit it yet.
After reading this, I think I'm on a pretty good deal to be fair!
jmsgld said:
brachycephalic
Word of the day right there.jmsgld said:
7k PA for a medium / pure bred dog,
£600 a month?jmsgld said:
more for a large dog or brachycephalic (pug, frenchie etc) or "teacup" or anything daft like that, and loads + a slush fund for a German Shepherd.
£1000 a month? More?Surely these aren't real numbers? People would just treat them as throwaway items - I could buy 4 pedigree Spaniels a year and have £1000 left over.
The ever increasing costs of vets bills are ruining pet ownership these days - ever since The City got in on the act. I know there will be 101 opinions on anything pet related but few dogs need the 'upsell' monthly subscription model for fleas and ticks and worm treatment - just in case. Blood running with poison in just in case it needs to kill a tick
. £110 bill the other day for an itchy year and prescribing the multifunction Surolan.
So with past two dogs we self insured and they 'left' us thousands and I do the same with current dogs at £200 a month into savings. Covers everything always. Anything required over that and I'll get a credit card. The insurance clauses and exclusions and the annual increments till you crack at the premium level on an older dog are very unsavoury. How can a £100k car be cheaper to insure than 5 months of young Doberman premiums - was quoted £125pm!
. £110 bill the other day for an itchy year and prescribing the multifunction Surolan.So with past two dogs we self insured and they 'left' us thousands and I do the same with current dogs at £200 a month into savings. Covers everything always. Anything required over that and I'll get a credit card. The insurance clauses and exclusions and the annual increments till you crack at the premium level on an older dog are very unsavoury. How can a £100k car be cheaper to insure than 5 months of young Doberman premiums - was quoted £125pm!
rigga said:
Pet insurance costs make you realise motor and house insurance is an absolute bargain.
I'm pretty sure I can run up a much bigger bill with either of my transport options, than if my dog goes crook, but the difference in premiums are shocking.
Our Westies insurance, even at a reduced level, is more than both car insurances together.I'm pretty sure I can run up a much bigger bill with either of my transport options, than if my dog goes crook, but the difference in premiums are shocking.
shtu said:
jmsgld said:
brachycephalic
Word of the day right there.jmsgld said:
7k PA for a medium / pure bred dog,
£600 a month?jmsgld said:
more for a large dog or brachycephalic (pug, frenchie etc) or "teacup" or anything daft like that, and loads + a slush fund for a German Shepherd.
£1000 a month? More?Surely these aren't real numbers? People would just treat them as throwaway items - I could buy 4 pedigree Spaniels a year and have £1000 left over.
Gary C said:
Red9zero said:
Our Westies insurance, even at a reduced level, is more than both car insurances together.
Which makes me want a dog even less than I did before.7K for a pet operation !
Worlds gone mad.
rigga said:
The whole system, vets, insurance needs regulation, its running out of control cost wise.
I was just thinking that the other day - dog’s insurance is more than the OH’s car.The problem is vets, and the entire industry around them, knows only too well that people are not going to say “so putting it down is cheaper?” and will spend every penny they can to keep Rover / Mittens alive as long as possible.
jmsgld said:
Red9zero said:
... but the amount of people I have spoken to since who have no insurance or savings to cover is quite surprising. I assume the only option then is the PDSA.
Or euthanasia. The PDSA only cover certain postcodes. In reality when it happens, we as vets do all we possibly can to find a charity that will take on the dog and have the owner sign it over to them, sometimes they might make a contribution if the owner can find most of the cost, but it is stressful for all involved and takes an awful lot of time and effort. Some owners flatly refuse and the animal is put to sleep.
I would say that it is entirely down to your personal circumstances, if you can afford a hefty bill or two, then no need. A well bred spaniel is relatively unlikely to throw large bills.
It's more these terribly bred brachycephalics that are currently horribly popular with people of less disposable income that really need insurance.
The amount of times that I have heard that "I can't afford insurance", I really have to bite my tongue to avoid telling them that they can't afford the dog if they can't afford the insurance.
In a nutshell;
Lifetime insurance, minimum of £4k PA for a small / mongrel dog, 7k PA for a medium / pure bred dog, more for a large dog or brachycephalic (pug, frenchie etc) or "teacup" or anything daft like that, and loads + a slush fund for a German Shepherd.
Most insurers hike the premiums in line with past history, some don't eg Petplan
Never change insurance without comprehending the implications ie anything previously mentioned in the clinical notes will not be covered going forward as considered pre-existing.
Insurance is a numbers game, margins are low as volume is high. The premium you pay for decent cover will not be much more than the average cost of claims of all equivalent pets.
Edited by jmsgld on Friday 31st December 13:45
Hips?
I pay about £450 a year for fairly gold-plated cover for my Golden Retriever. I think the limit is £15k per year, with European cover too.
I have a 20% excess, which IIRC materially reduced the premium (from >£650 to about £450).
I could easily “self-insure” - but choose not to because
- I don’t want to face the emotional decision of £££ or the dog. I want to always do what’s right for him, without thinking about the money side. I’m willing to pay a price for someone else to take this risk.
- I’m risk averse - just because I can take on a risk of a £10k vet bill, doesn’t mean I want to
I expect over his lifetime I’ll probably end up paying slightly more in insurance than I would have done in vet bills…but I’m OK with that for the piece of mind that I won’t be faced with a huge bill at any time.
I have a 20% excess, which IIRC materially reduced the premium (from >£650 to about £450).
I could easily “self-insure” - but choose not to because
- I don’t want to face the emotional decision of £££ or the dog. I want to always do what’s right for him, without thinking about the money side. I’m willing to pay a price for someone else to take this risk.
- I’m risk averse - just because I can take on a risk of a £10k vet bill, doesn’t mean I want to
I expect over his lifetime I’ll probably end up paying slightly more in insurance than I would have done in vet bills…but I’m OK with that for the piece of mind that I won’t be faced with a huge bill at any time.
Visla 12 plus 2 x spaniels 5/8.
Went down the insurance route for two years with the older spaniel, but by the 3rd year the premiums were getting ridiculous, no claims, never bothered since, stopped insuring.
Looked after well allowed to run freely and fed decent food, Millies Wolfheart, they're very fit and healthy, they age just like us and enjoy less vigorous exercise as time goes by.
Yes we would be prepared to spend a fair amount to have them treated, but if it came to a dog which had previously enjoyed chasing squirrels doing its own doggie things to be reduced to nothing but a shadow of its former self we would not allow and would not subject an animal we loved to long painful treatments whether insured or not, the spaniels live to search and sniff and find something to chase, the older one would die of misery herself if she couldn't do that.
Went down the insurance route for two years with the older spaniel, but by the 3rd year the premiums were getting ridiculous, no claims, never bothered since, stopped insuring.
Looked after well allowed to run freely and fed decent food, Millies Wolfheart, they're very fit and healthy, they age just like us and enjoy less vigorous exercise as time goes by.
Yes we would be prepared to spend a fair amount to have them treated, but if it came to a dog which had previously enjoyed chasing squirrels doing its own doggie things to be reduced to nothing but a shadow of its former self we would not allow and would not subject an animal we loved to long painful treatments whether insured or not, the spaniels live to search and sniff and find something to chase, the older one would die of misery herself if she couldn't do that.
brickwall said:
but choose not to because
- I don’t want to face the emotional decision of £££ or the dog. I want to always do what’s right for him, without thinking about the money side. I’m willing to pay a price for someone else to take this risk.
I asked a vet what happens with insurance once the money runs out. He told me that the cover stops, so you will still have the emotional turmoil - unless you can pay the extra.- I don’t want to face the emotional decision of £££ or the dog. I want to always do what’s right for him, without thinking about the money side. I’m willing to pay a price for someone else to take this risk.
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