Family protection dogs

[chris4652009]

makaveli144 said:

Try giving him a sausage if his Handler doesnt want you to and you will not be in a very nice place.

actual lol

[Robatr0n]

Lemming Train said:

What a dumb thread. There is no such thing as a "protection dog". All these owners that go on about how protective their dog is are completely deluded. Sure, the dog will bark and jump up and down a lot when it hears or something it isn't familiar with, but all a genuine intruder has to do is wave or throw some nice juicy meat at it and they have free rein to do whatever it is they've come to do in your house whilst the dog is preoccupied chomping his/her steak and sausages.

That's not true of all dogs but would be true for 99% of the canine population.

JasandJules gave the correct answer. A livestock guardian dog forms a very strong bond with it's flock, whether that would be sheep, goats, cows, people, etc.. They are extremely smart, very loving to their family, won't take food from strangers and assess threat levels tremendously well.

Although they require absolutely no training for their guarding instincts, they do need to be trained as a house pet and that's very difficult, time consuming and a lot of hard work. You'd also need tall fences, a secure garden and a garden big enough to let them roam around and exercise in. They'd also need regular long walks.

The OP would probably be better off having a true family pet in something like a German Shepherd as they are far easier to train & are able to adapt to your home life but they absolutely do not possess anywhere near the same guarding instincts and traits that a livestock guardian dog would.

[Deep]

Jim on the hill said:

The answer to your question was in what I quoted.

As an owner of "guard dog" breeds I am always worried when inexperienced people who can't really explain why they require a dog like this wants to get involved.

I can see that you clearly know everything apart from how to Google for someone who will sell you a bodyguard in a dog suit.

Maybe you should move to a nicer area or hit the gym so you feel a bit more confident.

I wish you the best of luck in finding peace

So you've decided that you know what sort of area I Iive in? That's quite amazing, you're one super awesome dude.
If you think the amount I can bench press has any part to play in this conversation I think it speaks volumes about you.

[Deep]

To those who have offered advice, I'm not ignoring you. I will pm you if that would be ok?

Carrying on this conversation on the open forum is not going to be productive.

I thank you once again and hope you don't mind me contacting you by PM.

Have a nice weekend.

[ApOrbital]

technodup said:

Hey Kez!

Your thread has arrived.

[Jag_NE]

Deep said:

Hi
I'm looking at purchasing a family protection dog . Usual domestic family set up ie wife and two boys under the age of 13 and my elderly mother.

There are a lot of companies around and the costs are pretty significant. I must say I was quite shocked at just how much but have now got my head around it.
I can't afford to make a mistake both from a financial point of view and also for the potential repercussions for my family.

Could anybody suggest a reputable company?

Thank you.

OP. Applying some harsh logic here, if the cost of the dog is troubling you, you probably don’t have assets that will attract hardcore thieves. If you can confirm that you haven’t seriously irritated any local psychos, a guard dog will be an expensive waste of time for you. I’d also argue that the risk of a big dog going loco on a family member is greater than that of a random and hypothetical intruder. Buy a cctv camera and a Labrador if you really want a dog.

[Lemming Train]

Jag_NE said:

OP. Applying some harsh logic here, if the cost of the dog is troubling you, you probably don’t have assets that will attract hardcore thieves

[So]

Jag_NE said:

OP. Applying some harsh logic here, if the cost of the dog is troubling you, you probably don’t have assets that will attract hardcore thieves. If you can confirm that you haven’t seriously irritated any local psychos, a guard dog will be an expensive waste of time for you. I’d also argue that the risk of a big dog going loco on a family member is greater than that of a random and hypothetical intruder. Buy a cctv camera and a Labrador if you really want a dog.

The OP has already dismissed CCTV. And lighting.

[Deep]

Jag_NE said:

OP. Applying some harsh logic here, if the cost of the dog is troubling you, you probably don’t have assets that will attract hardcore thieves. If you can confirm that you haven’t seriously irritated any local psychos, a guard dog will be an expensive waste of time for you. I’d also argue that the risk of a big dog going loco on a family member is greater than that of a random and hypothetical intruder. Buy a cctv camera and a Labrador if you really want a dog.

Why do PHers insist on making assumptions about people? Who said the cost of the dog is troubling me? I said I didn't want to make a financial mistake, thats just good sense and not the same as the cost troubling me.

Btw, do you know how much one of the fully trained dogs from the top companies cost? Starting price is £12k + vat, up to £20k.

[Deep]

Deep said:

Why do PHers insist on making assumptions about people? Who said the cost of the dog is troubling me? I said I didn't want to make a financial mistake, thats just good sense and not the same as the cost troubling me.

Btw, do you know how much one of the fully trained dogs from the top companies cost? Starting price is £12k + vat, up to £20k.

And I hate to have to say this as it's not my nature, but yes, I could buy one or even two of those dogs without batting an eyelid.

[Jasandjules]

Deep said:

To those who have offered advice, I'm not ignoring you. I will pm you if that would be ok?

If you want to know about LGDs, then do feel free (I have a pack of five and have had them for 10 years now along with showing and breeding them) but if it is a trained GSD type that is not my knowledge area at all..

[bexVN]

Deep said:

Deep said:

Why do PHers insist on making assumptions about people? Who said the cost of the dog is troubling me? I said I didn't want to make a financial mistake, thats just good sense and not the same as the cost troubling me.

Btw, do you know how much one of the fully trained dogs from the top companies cost? Starting price is £12k + vat, up to £20k.

And I hate to have to say this as it's not my nature, but yes, I could buy one or even two of those dogs without batting an eyelid.

Well at least I know you would never need to complain or bat an eyelid at any veterinary costs. That would make a welcome change!

I expected a few grand but wow, that's an jaw dropping cost however it is along the lines of how much it costs to train guide dogs for the first year.

[Benbay001]

Deep said:

Interesting that you say that I feel the need for protection as though it is something that isn't universal. Can I assume that you don't feel that way? So you leave your doors unlocked? Do you tell your wife and kids to walk down dark alleys on their own in the wee small hours?

It's just a matter of degrees.

I take your point that even a highly trained dog can be defeated. But then our army could be defeated by many others in the world, shall we not bother with an army then? The locks on your front door could probably be defeated in minutes, shall we not bother with those? Your window smashed in seconds, shall we just leave those open?

I'm genuinely interested in the more effective deterrents you mentioned especially if it doesn't involve poo in my garden. But please don't say CCTV cameras and lights that go on at dusk lol

Youre nuts!

Youre buying something that risks (albeit a small chance) mauling your family to off set the small chance of other humans mauling your family.

If I really thought the risk of a trained protection dog off set the risk my family faced living where I lived, I would be upping sticks and moving to the other side of the country, or another country.

ETA - If moving to another country wouldn't protect them from whoever is out to get them, then you will qualify for police protection.

Edited by Benbay001 on Friday 23 November 17:31

[Lemming Train]

Deep said:

Why do PHers insist on making assumptions about people? Who said the cost of the dog is troubling me? I said I didn't want to make a financial mistake, thats just good sense and not the same as the cost troubling me.

Btw, do you know how much one of the fully trained dogs from the top companies cost? Starting price is £12k + vat, up to £20k.

For £20k + vets bills over the years you could employ a security guard full time and you wouldn't need to clear up his poop and take him for walks.

[Robatr0n]

Lemming Train said:

For £20k + vets bills over the years you could employ a security guard full time and you wouldn't need to clear up his poop and take him for walks.

A full time security guard over the course of let's say 10 years for £20k? Bargain.

OP, definitely contact JasandJules about livestock guardian dogs.

[Lemming Train]

Robatr0n said:

Lemming Train said:

For £20k + vets bills over the years you could employ a security guard full time and you wouldn't need to clear up his poop and take him for walks.

A full time security guard over the course of let's say 10 years for £20k? Bargain.

OP, definitely contact JasandJules about livestock guardian dogs.

But it won't be 10 years will it? It will be a couple of years at best before the dog turns and kiils and eats his kids or neighbours, at which point the dog would have be disposed of, so another £20k for a replacement. That's another 'plus' for hiring a security guard - he's unlikely to kill and eat your kids, nor slobber over everything.

[Deep]

Ok, I've had my fill of the ill informed idiots on this thread who make huge assumptions about people and don't actually read what somebody writes.

The joys of an open forum I suppose. One only wants advice from the 10 % who are well educated, well informed and well balanced individuals; but the 90% just can't keep their mouths shut even though they know nothing.

I really should have known better. I wouldn't walk into a pub and ask every idiot there for an opinion, this exercise has been similar.

I genuinely thank the 10% who have positively contributed. I've heard you loud and clear and might bother you with a PM.

For the 90%, you have reminded me that most people are pretty damn stupid lol.

[Jag_NE]

Deep said:

Jag_NE said:

OP. Applying some harsh logic here, if the cost of the dog is troubling you, you probably don’t have assets that will attract hardcore thieves. If you can confirm that you haven’t seriously irritated any local psychos, a guard dog will be an expensive waste of time for you. I’d also argue that the risk of a big dog going loco on a family member is greater than that of a random and hypothetical intruder. Buy a cctv camera and a Labrador if you really want a dog.

Why do PHers insist on making assumptions about people? Who said the cost of the dog is troubling me? I said I didn't want to make a financial mistake, thats just good sense and not the same as the cost troubling me.

Btw, do you know how much one of the fully trained dogs from the top companies cost? Starting price is £12k + vat, up to £20k.

I’m not assuming anything. You said in your OP that you couldn’t afford a financial mistake and were shocked at how much the dogs cost. So to reiterate, if 12k + vat is making you twinge you won’t be attracting hardcore thieves. Your risk is opportunist burglars only and anything that barks will do the job.

[Robatr0n]

Lemming Train said:

But it won't be 10 years will it? It will be a couple of years at best before the dog turns and kiils and eats his kids or neighbours, at which point the dog would have be disposed of, so another £20k for a replacement. That's another 'plus' for hiring a security guard - he's unlikely to kill and eat your kids, nor slobber over everything.

You do spout some bks. I doubt people would mind so much if it was actually humorous.

[Deep]

Jag_NE said:

I’m not assuming anything. You said in your OP that you couldn’t afford a financial mistake and were shocked at how much the dogs cost. So to reiterate, if 12k + vat is making you twinge you won’t be attracting hardcore thieves. Your risk is opportunist burglars only and anything that barks will do the job.

Nope, not making me twinge at all. I was pretty shocked at the price just because I had no benchmark in this area.

However as I've said, I can afford it without batting an eyelid. So you don't need to worry about that or waste your time making assumptions about what I have or don't

And £12k + vat is the entry level. £25k iirc for the top tier. If I think its the right thing for me, I'll buy one, no bother. If it was a bother I wouldn't be investigating the idea.
Maybe that dog will make me a cup of tea in the morning

Edited by Deep on Friday 23 November 18:38