would you buy a gen1 C2S that has been Hartech'd ..?!

[240Cup]

So I nearly pressed the button on a Gen2 manual car the other day but circumstances conspired against me in terms of timing and geography to get and view it and it sold.

Same dealer has offered me a lovely spec late Gen1 which was showing some signs of Bore Score and they are apparently sending for the full Hartech rebuild as a precautionary measure. All told it will be some £10K cheaper to acquire than the Gen2 car once they retail it (with their own warranty plus I assume a Hartech one?).

Total cost of the Hartech in the region of £8K so it sounds like they are going to town on it.

I do a lot of overseas long distance cruising/commuting and can ill afford to be stranded by the roadside in the early hours on the continent with an engine which has gone pop which is why I have recently ruled out Gen 1 cars but is a gen 1 'post-hartech' pretty bulletproof in that all the inherent weaknesses have been addressed?

[rival38]

Not knowing if £8k really is the `full works` available from Hartech I would give them a ring and discuss the specific engine / model year. Find out what a full bells and whistles rebuild would entail / cost and decide from there. That is of course if you really like the car in all other aspects - colour/spec/ history etc etc. In many respects it could be an opportunity to get a good car at a good price with a thoroughly known quantity in the engine bay. But if I were in your shoes I would want the full works and not an 8k repair. I am not suggesting it would not be an excellent repair, but I do not think it likely that £8k covers all the `while we are in there` items that could be sorted fairly economically while it is apart.

[g7jhp]

No. The 997.2 is newer and doesn't have the dodgy engine and the stigma attached so will be a better ownership proposition in the longer term.

[SRT Hellcat]

what year did the 997.2 come out ?

[Digga]

rival38 said:

Not knowing if £8k really is the `full works` available from Hartech I would give them a ring and discuss the specific engine / model year. Find out what a full bells and whistles rebuild would entail / cost and decide from there. That is of course if you really like the car in all other aspects - colour/spec/ history etc etc. In many respects it could be an opportunity to get a good car at a good price with a thoroughly known quantity in the engine bay. But if I were in your shoes I would want the full works and not an 8k repair. I am not suggesting it would not be an excellent repair, but I do not think it likely that £8k covers all the `while we are in there` items that could be sorted fairly economically while it is apart.

^THis.

IMHO the reputaion Hartech have is excellent and they do appear to get fully to the cause of the issues, rather than merely treating the symptoms.

I know that my indie, Sports & Classic will rebuild the Mezger engines in-house, but will send the standard flat-sixes to Hartech. So they must be good.

[m444ttb]

That's pretty much the full works in its basic form. When mine was done (in 2015) £8.5K + VAT bought you the following:

Base engine rebuild (car & engine)
6x new cylinders
New 997 IMS
New IMS bearing + spindle
Crank bearing set
Timing chain set
6x re-coated pistons
Basic cylinder head overhaul

I think the IMS and bearing (better 997 items) added £1k on their own. While I was at it I also had the following additional items that brought the total to £11,670 inc. VAT

Exhaust value guide inserts (extra on standard head rebuild)
New Air-Oil separator
Rear brake pipes
Exhaust clamps
Oil cooler (replaced with good second hand item)
Rubber propshaft joints
PSE valves (997 items)
Water pump
Clutch
Cam sensor

[Nuttcase]

m444ttb said:

That's pretty much the full works in its basic form. When mine was done (in 2015) £8.5K + VAT bought you the following:

Base engine rebuild (car & engine)
6x new cylinders
New 997 IMS
New IMS bearing + spindle
Crank bearing set
Timing chain set
6x re-coated pistons
Basic cylinder head overhaul

I think the IMS and bearing (better 997 items) added £1k on their own. While I was at it I also had the following additional items that brought the total to £11,670 inc. VAT

Exhaust value guide inserts (extra on standard head rebuild)
New Air-Oil separator
Rear brake pipes
Exhaust clamps
Oil cooler (replaced with good second hand item)
Rubber propshaft joints
PSE valves (997 items)
Water pump
Clutch
Cam sensor

Considering you'd pay a grand at an OPC for a standard service (which you could easily do yourself), that's really not a bad price for all that work and parts.

[m444ttb]

I think Hartech's labour rates are excellent. I'd have continued using them for servicing but they were so busy they wanted to focus on cars that are on their service plan. I just couldn't get the car booked in. I don't miss the trip up the M5 and M6 though!

[brownspeed]

"would you buy a gen1 C2S that has been Hartech'd ..?!"
I did! 2004 3.8S.
no regrets

[thelostboy]

I wouldn't have an issue, but I would still hold out for a Gen 2. I personally think the styling tweaks are great (outside and inside), and the car is that little bit better in all areas (other than exhaust note).

[Andyoz]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It's an interesting situation - I wanted a Gen 2 but a really nice Gen 1 landed in my lap. If I have to get the Gen 1 rebuilt then the overall cost of ownership won't be all THAT fare behind buying a Gen 2 (and a Gen 2 engine will need work eventually...).

Resale will continue to be lower but I think the Gen 1's will come into their own one day - buyers will almost expect them to have had a Hartech rebuild as some sort of badge of honor!

[LordHaveMurci]

If it gets the FULL Hartech treatment then yes, I'd buy it if it was what I was looking for & in budget.

May be worth offering to pay for some elective work as part of the rebuild if it's not already included, be a cost effective way of further future proofing the car.

[hartech]

Readers might be interested to know that during next spring we will probably have completed all out trials and press use of some of our own oversized engine'd cars (each of which has enjoyed a full engine rebuild) and some of them might become available for sale. They have not covered high mileages since the rebuilds, will have the engine work guaranteed and were not thrashed by journalists - who were all accompanied during driving and on our local roads within our speed limits.

They were just straight original cars that we bought because the owner was reluctant to (or unable to) pay for a rebuild for themselves and as such were not necessarily chosen as the best ever of a bunch. However they will all be in good mechanical condition, could have additional work included in the deal and will not be over priced - representing a potential bargain for anyone particularly interested - who would be advised to contact Sharon on [e-mail] with expressing their interest with contact details.

Baz