Leaseholder refusing permission for our dog
Discussion
Europa1 said:
That was the agreement between OP and his immediate landlord, and that permission was sought and obtained. The problem is that the agreement between the immediate landlord and the superior landlord forbids dogs. So, OP's immediate landlord was giving a permission that was not theirs to give. Both the immediate landlord and the agent have cocked up.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I said in earlier posts. I was just explaining to Catweasle why I thought it was the landlord's fault, as I think he was saying the agents agreed he could have a dog without checking with the landlord.DanL said:
Jakarta said:
The particularly helpful neighbour also had the terms of the leasehold amended so that no resident could have hard flooring by virtue of the fact she could hear people walking around.
No pets and no hard floors are both quite common clauses in leasehold flats (in my limited experience).Odds are the landlord will have no choice except to ask you to rehome the dog or leave the flat, assuming there is a no pets clause in the leasehold of the flat.
If they’ve granted permission to you to have a dog, this is a problem for them...
I had some involvement in private leasehold apartments last year with similar conditions about pets and flooring. Both caused issues. Especially all the dog piss and s
t in the internal communal areas in what was supposed to be a decent historic building conversation.Nowt but mither.
Unfortunately over half of the new 3rd of a million pound apartments could only be sold to people who had dogs as most of the apartments were unmortgageable for a variety of reasons so the lease agreement isn't really enforced.
We're fortunate that our apartment is the basement so the only communal area we have access to is the front gravel parking area. We collect any spoil so it can't be argued that is an issue.
The dog isn't noisy, occasional grumbles but the tennant immediately above doesn't hear it, never mind the grumbly one a few doors down.
Interestingly, the tenant above also have a dog but due to the challenging neighbour don't bring it out of the home - ever! Not even to their garden which abutts ours, a very sad situation. There is also another dog at the far end of the terrace.
This grumbly neighbour is a challenge, on the day of viewing the property she poked her head out the window and told us we weren't allowed to park here. Also spouted nonsense at my girlfriend when putting garbage in the bins stating it didn't look like recyclable goods, she was invited to get in the bin and check!
None of the other neighbours seem to enjoy her presence.
We will wait until the break clause is activated and then either challenge it or play along if they are going to pay for movers.
The dog isn't noisy, occasional grumbles but the tennant immediately above doesn't hear it, never mind the grumbly one a few doors down.
Interestingly, the tenant above also have a dog but due to the challenging neighbour don't bring it out of the home - ever! Not even to their garden which abutts ours, a very sad situation. There is also another dog at the far end of the terrace.
This grumbly neighbour is a challenge, on the day of viewing the property she poked her head out the window and told us we weren't allowed to park here. Also spouted nonsense at my girlfriend when putting garbage in the bins stating it didn't look like recyclable goods, she was invited to get in the bin and check!
None of the other neighbours seem to enjoy her presence.
We will wait until the break clause is activated and then either challenge it or play along if they are going to pay for movers.
Carbon Sasquatch said:
The Mad Monk said:
If no - then carry on doing what you are doing for the period of the contact.
and expect any break clauses to be actioned - so it's the absolute minimum term of the contract......It's easy to become hung up on legalities, when dealing with realities.
Carbon Sasquatch said:
The Mad Monk said:
If no - then carry on doing what you are doing for the period of the contact.
and expect any break clauses to be actioned - so it's the absolute minimum term of the contract......But I really don't understand people who move into a flat and then want to get a dog.
The Mad Monk said:
Well it's not my axe to grind - or something?
But I really don't understand people who move into a flat and then want to get a dog.
Depends on the flat, and the dog really. But I really don't understand people who move into a flat and then want to get a dog.
I've lived in flats twice with dogs. Both of them ground floor, both of them with private entrances. One with a proper garden, one with a massive terrace that was effectively a garden.
Nobody ever complained about the dogs. This was years ago, it wasn't the collection of them I have now. Just a jack Russel, then the same jack Russel and a 20kg dog.
I would say getting a new dog in an apartment is a bit of a risk as you've no idea how its going to behave. If it just doesn't want to shut up you're going to have a difficult time with the neighbours.
Algarve said:
The Mad Monk said:
Well it's not my axe to grind - or something?
But I really don't understand people who move into a flat and then want to get a dog.
Depends on the flat, and the dog really. But I really don't understand people who move into a flat and then want to get a dog.
I've lived in flats twice with dogs. Both of them ground floor, both of them with private entrances. One with a proper garden, one with a massive terrace that was effectively a garden.
Nobody ever complained about the dogs. This was years ago, it wasn't the collection of them I have now. Just a jack Russel, then the same jack Russel and a 20kg dog.
I would say getting a new dog in an apartment is a bit of a risk as you've no idea how its going to behave. If it just doesn't want to shut up you're going to have a difficult time with the neighbours.
Difficult situation OP as with your own entrance and garden, provided it is a quiet dog there really shouldn’t be an issue.
Our lease also has a no pets without permission clause, and something about the use of hard flooring without an acoustic layer.
At the end of the day the lease is there to protect the freeholder’s interest and the wellbeing of the other residents. One resident’s beloved pet could be a major annoyance to a neighbour, and they have the right to enjoy their own home too.
It sounds like your vocal neighbour is the type to not let things lie, so although inconvenient you may have an easier life to move on... and get written confirmation from the landlord (not agent) that dogs are OK.
you may secure a better deal anyway, post-Covid!
Our lease also has a no pets without permission clause, and something about the use of hard flooring without an acoustic layer.
At the end of the day the lease is there to protect the freeholder’s interest and the wellbeing of the other residents. One resident’s beloved pet could be a major annoyance to a neighbour, and they have the right to enjoy their own home too.
It sounds like your vocal neighbour is the type to not let things lie, so although inconvenient you may have an easier life to move on... and get written confirmation from the landlord (not agent) that dogs are OK.
you may secure a better deal anyway, post-Covid!
Lazermilk said:
m_cozzy said:
Time to move then or get rid of the dog. Nobody wants a bloody yip yip yip yip yip yap yap yapping dog living near them to be honest with you.
There is always at least one... 
I wouldn't be impressed if I moved into a condo with a set of rules and then someone else later on moved in and they or their landlord just decided the rules didn't apply to them. Its like booking a fancy weekend away at a 'no kids' hotel then the couple in the next room have a couple of brats with them screaming all day. Its not fair.
So - Posted good comments.
I would add that you will simple be given a s21 notice - 3 mths notice at present - there will be no reason given. None need to be given . None should be given. You are required to vacate at the end of that notice. How long is your tenancy ? When is the break clause from?
asking for compo etc wont make any difference as there is not a "reason" that has to be given to get you out with a s21 notice. Sure you could try and argue that is the reason why you have the s21 but its going to be hard to prove otherwise as the Landlord does not legally have to give ANY reason to give the s21.
If you wanted to be difficult you could email the agents and say that you plan to get rid of the dog and could you then extend the tenancy or would that help in not to be given notice s21? If the agents stupidly come back (and it sounds they are feking stupid) and say yes the s21 wont be served or the landlord is now happy that the dog is going/gone then you MAY have a case via the agent and TPO for a claim of something as you can prove a direct link with the s21 and the dog and the agents cock up.
As a letting agent thats the inside info on what you may want to consider and the angle I would go for in your shoes.
I would add that you will simple be given a s21 notice - 3 mths notice at present - there will be no reason given. None need to be given . None should be given. You are required to vacate at the end of that notice. How long is your tenancy ? When is the break clause from?
asking for compo etc wont make any difference as there is not a "reason" that has to be given to get you out with a s21 notice. Sure you could try and argue that is the reason why you have the s21 but its going to be hard to prove otherwise as the Landlord does not legally have to give ANY reason to give the s21.
If you wanted to be difficult you could email the agents and say that you plan to get rid of the dog and could you then extend the tenancy or would that help in not to be given notice s21? If the agents stupidly come back (and it sounds they are feking stupid) and say yes the s21 wont be served or the landlord is now happy that the dog is going/gone then you MAY have a case via the agent and TPO for a claim of something as you can prove a direct link with the s21 and the dog and the agents cock up.
As a letting agent thats the inside info on what you may want to consider and the angle I would go for in your shoes.
A little more development on this over the weekend. I will wait for any notice in given, and then request access to all communication on the subject of our apartment since the first visit. There may be interesting details within, it may also resulty in getting put in the 'too difficult' box and left for a while.
Saturday early evening I had a bbq in the garden, 4 of us in total, nothing too fancy and no music pumping. Just the girlfriends parents visiting.
Wind was almost zero, smoke could be seen going either vertically or to the north. Madam a couple of doors down waits until I have just about finished all the cooking, pops her head out of the window and asks me to move the bbq to the far end of the garden. By this point, I had finished cooking and could not be arsed with speaking to her head bobbing out of the window. Her window is about 20m south of my garden, there would not be billows of smoke coming in, she may have smelt some of the bbq but ntohing excessinve nor abnormal for a communal living environment.
I politely replied that I would not be moving the bbq and suggested she might want to close herwindow.
As I turned my back on her and walked in to the home she screamed out of her window at me telling to to go forth and fornicate somewhere else using a few less syllabals. I sniggered as I walked in, and didn't go back outside for the rest of the evening.
No further news on the dog. Will just sit back and wait.
Saturday early evening I had a bbq in the garden, 4 of us in total, nothing too fancy and no music pumping. Just the girlfriends parents visiting.
Wind was almost zero, smoke could be seen going either vertically or to the north. Madam a couple of doors down waits until I have just about finished all the cooking, pops her head out of the window and asks me to move the bbq to the far end of the garden. By this point, I had finished cooking and could not be arsed with speaking to her head bobbing out of the window. Her window is about 20m south of my garden, there would not be billows of smoke coming in, she may have smelt some of the bbq but ntohing excessinve nor abnormal for a communal living environment.
I politely replied that I would not be moving the bbq and suggested she might want to close herwindow.
As I turned my back on her and walked in to the home she screamed out of her window at me telling to to go forth and fornicate somewhere else using a few less syllabals. I sniggered as I walked in, and didn't go back outside for the rest of the evening.
No further news on the dog. Will just sit back and wait.
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