Brexit : UK dog with EU passport - how to enter EU?
Discussion
I thought this would be the section most likely to know the answer. We have a cockerpoo called Millie. She's lucky enough to have been to europe before brexit, with her UK pet passport. When we went to the portuguese vet to get the tapeworm treatment before coming back into the UK he noticed our UK pet passport was incorrect and didn't match the microchip number as one digit was wrong, so he re-issued an EU passport, in portuguese, with the correct microchip number.
So we have an english dog with a portuguese passport. Registered owner address in the passport is us, in the UK.
We want to take her into the EU again, by ferry into Spain then on to Portugal.
Do we :
a) get all the new paperwork issued by our UK vet before travel, which includes "An animal health certificate, which must be signed by an official veterinarian of the third country, and presented at least in Spanish and a declaration, both in accordance with EU models, and certified copy of the identification and vaccination data of the animal/animals.". We've been told this can be £200 and take a couple of weeks to prepare as it's so new.
or b) teach her to sit in portuguese and hope they'll assume she's an EU citizen?
Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated!
So we have an english dog with a portuguese passport. Registered owner address in the passport is us, in the UK.
We want to take her into the EU again, by ferry into Spain then on to Portugal.
Do we :
a) get all the new paperwork issued by our UK vet before travel, which includes "An animal health certificate, which must be signed by an official veterinarian of the third country, and presented at least in Spanish and a declaration, both in accordance with EU models, and certified copy of the identification and vaccination data of the animal/animals.". We've been told this can be £200 and take a couple of weeks to prepare as it's so new.
or b) teach her to sit in portuguese and hope they'll assume she's an EU citizen?
Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated!
....and it appears we have a result.
Portuguese vet and a convoluted search through EU websites and spanish border control both confirm it.
EU issued passport = EU dog.
So she can come and go as she pleases as long as her rabies jabs are up to date
(I'm still going to teach her to sit in portuguese).
Portuguese vet and a convoluted search through EU websites and spanish border control both confirm it.
EU issued passport = EU dog.
So she can come and go as she pleases as long as her rabies jabs are up to date
(I'm still going to teach her to sit in portuguese).
Recently had similar advice from a frustrated at Brexit UK vet to Pet Passport my dog in France with the vet local to our holiday home. Bonkers solution, but very welcome swerve around the Brexit red tape.
For any of the UK population who lead international cosmopolitan lives, Brexit has been a nightmare. International driving permit, green card, live animal export certificate, 90 day Schengen limit, differential Covid restrictions etc just to travel a route which previously required zero admin.
Anyway, we have been teaching our dog French commands in case the local vet does a language proficiency test. ;-)
For any of the UK population who lead international cosmopolitan lives, Brexit has been a nightmare. International driving permit, green card, live animal export certificate, 90 day Schengen limit, differential Covid restrictions etc just to travel a route which previously required zero admin.
Anyway, we have been teaching our dog French commands in case the local vet does a language proficiency test. ;-)
andy43 said:
When we went to the portuguese vet to get the tapeworm treatment before coming back into the UK he noticed our UK pet passport was incorrect and didn't match the microchip number as one digit was wrong, so he re-issued an EU passport, in portuguese, with the correct microchip number.
Please can you supply the name of the portugese vet who has broken a multitude of laws and should be struck off. What the heck was he thinking when he decided that a microchip number could be ignored!! Honestly, that is appalling. I understand why he did it but I value my signature and integrity more than this.
You get border vets in europe confiscating drivers' sandwiches because they are importing ham and cheese, and then the bastids alter a legal document just to expedite someone's pet potentially spreading rabies......plus a british passport issuing vet who couldn't double check his paperwork, or someone who tried to import the wrong dog. What a catalogue of errors. But for a vet to alter a passport/assume a microchip number is a simple mistake....astonishing. Please give the name of the portugese vet.
Thevet said:
andy43 said:
When we went to the portuguese vet to get the tapeworm treatment before coming back into the UK he noticed our UK pet passport was incorrect and didn't match the microchip number as one digit was wrong, so he re-issued an EU passport, in portuguese, with the correct microchip number.
Please can you supply the name of the portugese vet who has broken a multitude of laws and should be struck off. What the heck was he thinking when he decided that a microchip number could be ignored!! Honestly, that is appalling. I understand why he did it but I value my signature and integrity more than this.
You get border vets in europe confiscating drivers' sandwiches because they are importing ham and cheese, and then the bastids alter a legal document just to expedite someone's pet potentially spreading rabies......plus a british passport issuing vet who couldn't double check his paperwork, or someone who tried to import the wrong dog. What a catalogue of errors. But for a vet to alter a passport/assume a microchip number is a simple mistake....astonishing. Please give the name of the portugese vet.
Thevet said:
So, not one comment from the cost-complainers and anti-vets.
I don't moan about vet fees or hate any vets....and if you don't like the forum community, why you are here?Your posting came across to me as lacking lucidity caused by unabashed anger, all because you had misread the OP posting. The OP's foreign vet had not ignored the microchip, which probably correlated with his/her records caring for that animal. No rational vet would reissue the Pet Passport otherwise.
You projected an irrational assumption that foreign vets are cowboys, but that is not my experience. They are as professional as UK vets. I get UK vets may be smarting at loss of some professional esteem post Brexit....not being qualified now to sign off some certifications. That is not the fault of foreign colleagues, but a natural result of the UK decision to leave the EU.
As a retired professional person, I can say we should always moderate ourselves.....or face the wrath of our professional bodies.
Edited by HocusPocus on Friday 30th July 22:28
HocusPocus said:
I don't moan about vet fees or hate any vets....and if you don't like the forum community, why you are here?
Your posting came across to me as lacking lucidity caused by unabashed anger, all because you had misread the OP posting. The OP's foreign vet had not ignored the microchip, which probably correlated with his/her records caring for that animal. No rational vet would reissue the Pet Passport otherwise.
You projected an irrational assumption that foreign vets are cowboys, but that is not my experience. They are as professional as UK vets. I get UK vets may be smarting at loss of some professional esteem post Brexit....not being qualified now to sign off some certifications. That is not the fault of foreign colleagues, but a natural result of the UK decision to leave the EU.
As a retired professional person, I can say we should always moderate ourselves.....or face the wrath of our professional bodies.
I am here because of pistonheads!! I like the community but some elements are better than others, same for all of this mixed bunch.Your posting came across to me as lacking lucidity caused by unabashed anger, all because you had misread the OP posting. The OP's foreign vet had not ignored the microchip, which probably correlated with his/her records caring for that animal. No rational vet would reissue the Pet Passport otherwise.
You projected an irrational assumption that foreign vets are cowboys, but that is not my experience. They are as professional as UK vets. I get UK vets may be smarting at loss of some professional esteem post Brexit....not being qualified now to sign off some certifications. That is not the fault of foreign colleagues, but a natural result of the UK decision to leave the EU.
As a retired professional person, I can say we should always moderate ourselves.....or face the wrath of our professional bodies.
Edited by HocusPocus on Friday 30th July 22:28
Lacking lucidity? which bit? Unabashed anger? definitely. The original posts states that the portuguese vet decided that the UK passport, which is a legal document, could be ignored (please bring on the wrath of their professional body) and a new one issued. So, what is the point of a (now out of date) Pet passport? Obviously, this individual felt it didn't matter about the rules regarding UK biosecurity. He did not ignore the microchip, he ignored the legal document, issued by a UK vet with probably incorrect details, and issued an EU document incorrectly. This meant the dog could come straight back into the UK without it being checked to see if the dog's chip was wrong or it was a different dog.
I hold my foreign colleagues who I have met and employed, in high esteem, but I do not see such a professional attitude from those based in the EU. The uk vet who issued the original and incorrect passpport is just as culpable as the portuguese vet, which I did state in my post. There is increasing anger amongst UK vets involved with export certification, that their EU counterparts are playing a parisan role over Brexit, and showing poor regard for professional standards when it suits them.
Some UK vets not being able to sign off some certifications? Well, we as a practice, and as a profession, are certifying as many as in 2001 when foot and mouth appeared, so you are poorly informed on that comment.
As a retired professional, you should umderstand the nature of a certifying signature, it has legal bearing, this case shows that one individual didn't care about what I have previously mentioned.
We should always moderate ourselves? In principle, I agree but I also value the reputation of my profession, which comes under much scrutiny and criticism, here and elswhere, so I am entitled to reply to posts here in any decent fashion.
So, to finish with your last line, let this individual face the wrath of their professional body, as some uk vets have done when faced with the consequencews of their incorrectly issued pet passports. I hope that is lucid enough and that the original post gets reread to show the problem of UK dog on holiday, EU passport issued in EU for re-entry to UK home.
If you feel that strongly about the competence standard of foreign colleagues, be positive and do something. Raise it with your professional body together with supporting evidence to take forward. A rant on PH about a single vet who probably enabled his client to return to the UK with his pet after a UK vet's grossly negligent act won't change things. It is most likely there was no mistaking the animal identity, because clients tend to be regulars once registered. No doubt just like you have got to know your clients and their pets.
My comment on certification was simply founded on my UK vet stating that she was no longer recognised as certifying a rabies vaccine and antigen test. Do not misconstrue my comment as speculation on how busy your practice is on other certifications. Invalidity of UK pet passports and loss of certain certification rights is a consequence of Brexit. The EU treating the UK like an inconsequential third country is what the UK population voted for.....perhaps you should have shouted your case before the vote because the disdainful attitudes towards an exited UK you complain about were all entirely predictable.
I had described the proposed Brexit pre-vote as looking at a paddock containing many different coloured horses.Then one day someone proposed we should like to go back to just black and white horses. Sorry, you cannot easily ex post facto unf
k 40 years of horse breeding.
My comment on certification was simply founded on my UK vet stating that she was no longer recognised as certifying a rabies vaccine and antigen test. Do not misconstrue my comment as speculation on how busy your practice is on other certifications. Invalidity of UK pet passports and loss of certain certification rights is a consequence of Brexit. The EU treating the UK like an inconsequential third country is what the UK population voted for.....perhaps you should have shouted your case before the vote because the disdainful attitudes towards an exited UK you complain about were all entirely predictable.
I had described the proposed Brexit pre-vote as looking at a paddock containing many different coloured horses.Then one day someone proposed we should like to go back to just black and white horses. Sorry, you cannot easily ex post facto unf
k 40 years of horse breeding.andy43 said:
When we went to the portuguese vet to get the tapeworm treatment before coming back into the UK he noticed our UK pet passport was incorrect and didn't match the microchip number as one digit was wrong, so he re-issued an EU passport, in portuguese, with the correct microchip number.
This is a little odd, because the transponder code in the passport is usually a barcode sticker supplied with the microchip. There really shouldn't be any possibility of error.
Also, your new passport would surely be missing all the vaccination records that the old one showed?
Our chap has an EU passport, but we've no plans to take him abroad.
HocusPocus said:
If you feel that strongly about the competence standard of foreign colleagues, be positive and do something. Raise it with your professional body together with supporting evidence to take forward. A rant on PH about a single vet who probably enabled his client to return to the UK with his pet after a UK vet's grossly negligent act won't change things. It is most likely there was no mistaking the animal identity, because clients tend to be regulars once registered. No doubt just like you have got to know your clients and their pets.
My comment on certification was simply founded on my UK vet stating that she was no longer recognised as certifying a rabies vaccine and antigen test. Do not misconstrue my comment as speculation on how busy your practice is on other certifications. Invalidity of UK pet passports and loss of certain certification rights is a consequence of Brexit. The EU treating the UK like an inconsequential third country is what the UK population voted for.....perhaps you should have shouted your case before the vote because the disdainful attitudes towards an exited UK you complain about were all entirely predictable..
I voted to remain.My comment on certification was simply founded on my UK vet stating that she was no longer recognised as certifying a rabies vaccine and antigen test. Do not misconstrue my comment as speculation on how busy your practice is on other certifications. Invalidity of UK pet passports and loss of certain certification rights is a consequence of Brexit. The EU treating the UK like an inconsequential third country is what the UK population voted for.....perhaps you should have shouted your case before the vote because the disdainful attitudes towards an exited UK you complain about were all entirely predictable..
Your vet is only no longer recognised as able to certify pet export health certificates because she has not renewed her export panel.
Grossly negligent vs virtually criminal? which is worse. Portuguese vet wouldn't know a uk pet/owner to be who they claim to be.
Disdainful/vindictive attitude towards the UK is not unexpected but disappointing nonetheless. Lets hope the UK starts to require export health certificates for EU animals and animal products soon....we don't just now!
silentbrown said:
andy43 said:
When we went to the portuguese vet to get the tapeworm treatment before coming back into the UK he noticed our UK pet passport was incorrect and didn't match the microchip number as one digit was wrong, so he re-issued an EU passport, in portuguese, with the correct microchip number.
This is a little odd, because the transponder code in the passport is usually a barcode sticker supplied with the microchip. There really shouldn't be any possibility of error. Two of ours have pet passports (only because they were rescues from RoI) and both have the transponder code/microchip number handwritten, no barcode.
To clarify :
Puppy was chipped by breeder, four years later dogs first UK passport had the number handwritten in, same as the Portuguese passport that replaced it. No stickers or bar codes.
I seem to remember the UK vet scanning the chip on the dog when issuing the passport, not just relying on doggies computer records when he issued it. They got one number one digit out I think - handwritten.
The Portuguese vet checked the chip and reported to me he’d found a single digit error on the passport. The rest of the number was correct. We were then in the vets waiting room for a loooong time. From memory a good hour or so. I think he did contact the UK to clarify - I honestly can’t remember exactly what went on but it certainly wasn’t a quick “kerching I can flog you a new passport” scenario. Don’t remember if he asked me for the UK vet contact details but it certainly wasn’t a quick process to get the passport replaced.
When you’ve got the dogs description and supposed ID, the owners Passport as ID with the owners address and contact details and so on and they match up to what the UK vet has on their records, down to previous UK history for foreign travel advice, passport issue etc even down to the sale of the tick collar she’s wearing it’s reasonable to assume we’re not trying to fake anything and that somewhere a genuine mistake has been made.
Simple honest mistake by the UK vet that, had the Portuguese vet had the attitude of “computer says no” would have left us somewhere I really really wouldn’t want to be.
I have the utmost respect for vets, beyond that even of doctors - how on earth you fix somebody when they can’t talk I really have no idea, and on that basis I will not be naming either the UK vet or the Portuguese vet. Common sense prevailed fortunately. We have a dogs chip, records in two countries and a passport that all have the same number, as it should be.
It’s only after brexit that this has turned out to be an advantage, at least as long as the biannual rabies jabs can be maintained within the EU - if we cannot get over to Europe to get her next rabies jab then we’re into the whole expensive paperwork thing same as any other UK dog.
Puppy was chipped by breeder, four years later dogs first UK passport had the number handwritten in, same as the Portuguese passport that replaced it. No stickers or bar codes.
I seem to remember the UK vet scanning the chip on the dog when issuing the passport, not just relying on doggies computer records when he issued it. They got one number one digit out I think - handwritten.
The Portuguese vet checked the chip and reported to me he’d found a single digit error on the passport. The rest of the number was correct. We were then in the vets waiting room for a loooong time. From memory a good hour or so. I think he did contact the UK to clarify - I honestly can’t remember exactly what went on but it certainly wasn’t a quick “kerching I can flog you a new passport” scenario. Don’t remember if he asked me for the UK vet contact details but it certainly wasn’t a quick process to get the passport replaced.
When you’ve got the dogs description and supposed ID, the owners Passport as ID with the owners address and contact details and so on and they match up to what the UK vet has on their records, down to previous UK history for foreign travel advice, passport issue etc even down to the sale of the tick collar she’s wearing it’s reasonable to assume we’re not trying to fake anything and that somewhere a genuine mistake has been made.
Simple honest mistake by the UK vet that, had the Portuguese vet had the attitude of “computer says no” would have left us somewhere I really really wouldn’t want to be.
I have the utmost respect for vets, beyond that even of doctors - how on earth you fix somebody when they can’t talk I really have no idea, and on that basis I will not be naming either the UK vet or the Portuguese vet. Common sense prevailed fortunately. We have a dogs chip, records in two countries and a passport that all have the same number, as it should be.
It’s only after brexit that this has turned out to be an advantage, at least as long as the biannual rabies jabs can be maintained within the EU - if we cannot get over to Europe to get her next rabies jab then we’re into the whole expensive paperwork thing same as any other UK dog.
moorx said:
That's not the case for all pet passports though.
Two of ours have pet passports (only because they were rescues from RoI) and both have the transponder code/microchip number handwritten, no barcode.
Two of ours have pet passports (only because they were rescues from RoI) and both have the transponder code/microchip number handwritten, no barcode.
D'oh. Our lad has a sticker on his Romanian passport because he was chipped by the rescue centre's vet at the same time the passport was issued.
If he'd already been chipped they'd have had to scan it and write it in by hand, of course...
Thevet said:
HocusPocus said:
If you feel that strongly about the competence standard of foreign colleagues, be positive and do something. Raise it with your professional body together with supporting evidence to take forward. A rant on PH about a single vet who probably enabled his client to return to the UK with his pet after a UK vet's grossly negligent act won't change things. It is most likely there was no mistaking the animal identity, because clients tend to be regulars once registered. No doubt just like you have got to know your clients and their pets.
My comment on certification was simply founded on my UK vet stating that she was no longer recognised as certifying a rabies vaccine and antigen test. Do not misconstrue my comment as speculation on how busy your practice is on other certifications. Invalidity of UK pet passports and loss of certain certification rights is a consequence of Brexit. The EU treating the UK like an inconsequential third country is what the UK population voted for.....perhaps you should have shouted your case before the vote because the disdainful attitudes towards an exited UK you complain about were all entirely predictable..
I voted to remain.My comment on certification was simply founded on my UK vet stating that she was no longer recognised as certifying a rabies vaccine and antigen test. Do not misconstrue my comment as speculation on how busy your practice is on other certifications. Invalidity of UK pet passports and loss of certain certification rights is a consequence of Brexit. The EU treating the UK like an inconsequential third country is what the UK population voted for.....perhaps you should have shouted your case before the vote because the disdainful attitudes towards an exited UK you complain about were all entirely predictable..
Your vet is only no longer recognised as able to certify pet export health certificates because she has not renewed her export panel.
Grossly negligent vs virtually criminal? which is worse. Portuguese vet wouldn't know a uk pet/owner to be who they claim to be.
Disdainful/vindictive attitude towards the UK is not unexpected but disappointing nonetheless. Lets hope the UK starts to require export health certificates for EU animals and animal products soon....we don't just now!
I would discourage you from advocating tit for tat. Negativity ultimately solves nothing, and is more likely to make things worse.
You come across as a passionate vet, so your energy would be better deployed building bridges with continental colleagues to promote change. What you are experiencing is the consequences of loss of trust by the Europeans in British integrity. Alas (as Boris the procreant often says), Brexit behaviour by UK government has won UK no friends, and shown UK government up as arrogant, stupid, uncommercial xenophobes.
Thankfully the kindness of the Portuguese vet meant the OP was not left in the lurch.
Thevet said:
Portuguese vet wouldn't know a uk pet/owner to be who they claim to be.
As OP has explaimed, yours is a mistaken assumption. The facts are the Portuguese vet verified the owner and the animal.As an example, my French vet knows me and my dog, just like my UK vet. Neither took my passport. I am a long-standing client of both practices with billing scars to show for it. Do you check passports of all your local and foreign clients, like I used to KYC and cross check (and keep meticulous records) using independent sources of all my clients? If not, you cannot claim to know a pet/owner to be who they claim to be.
No sir, mine is not a mistaken assumption, The vet involved, identified a client and a dog, decided that the legal document was incorrect by one digit and so rewrote a legal document to expedite something they probably had no evidence to corroborate. There is no debate about that within this post. He did that to enable someone to reenter the uk without no proof of rabies vaccination, nor animal identity.
That is "fact" within this deabte. My reply to the post was not lacking in lucidity, nor short in unabashed anger, it was dismayed by people choose to disregard the rules when it suits them.
The pet passport system was put in place to protect the UK's rabies free status, vets on this side of the channel and the EU must respect the evidence of the system. One digit out means that the document is incorrect, how is 2 the same as 3?
Yes the uk vet was probaly a fanny, we can all be that, but disregarding a passport to reissue another is crazy.
So, if there was discussion between the issuing uk vet and the portuguese vet, that could explain this but that wasn't the story at the top. The vet in the EU still should not have reissued a passport "proving" vaccination as it did not match the animal.
Not sure what you mean by KYC? but I keep meticulous records, and expect to be able to answer any request to explain wheher 9530100013545678 is the same as 9530100013545679.
Apart from that, and back to the OP, I cannot answer whether you should stick with your EU passport or get your new export health certificate, our dogs may not come with us on our next euro-tour, there are so many uncertainties with pet travel to the EU, look at the nurburgring thread on trackdays to see how difficult it could be for "just" a car and fuel cans.
Anyway, with understatement,I'm not wrong, someone didn't do their job and then someone rewrote a legal document ===WRONG
That is "fact" within this deabte. My reply to the post was not lacking in lucidity, nor short in unabashed anger, it was dismayed by people choose to disregard the rules when it suits them.
The pet passport system was put in place to protect the UK's rabies free status, vets on this side of the channel and the EU must respect the evidence of the system. One digit out means that the document is incorrect, how is 2 the same as 3?
Yes the uk vet was probaly a fanny, we can all be that, but disregarding a passport to reissue another is crazy.
So, if there was discussion between the issuing uk vet and the portuguese vet, that could explain this but that wasn't the story at the top. The vet in the EU still should not have reissued a passport "proving" vaccination as it did not match the animal.
Not sure what you mean by KYC? but I keep meticulous records, and expect to be able to answer any request to explain wheher 9530100013545678 is the same as 9530100013545679.
Apart from that, and back to the OP, I cannot answer whether you should stick with your EU passport or get your new export health certificate, our dogs may not come with us on our next euro-tour, there are so many uncertainties with pet travel to the EU, look at the nurburgring thread on trackdays to see how difficult it could be for "just" a car and fuel cans.
Anyway, with understatement,I'm not wrong, someone didn't do their job and then someone rewrote a legal document ===WRONG
Know Your Customer. That means copy of passport certified with true likeness of picture by lawyer/accountant/banker/notary plus proof of address using original utility bill less than 3 months old or annual rates bill. Where funds are received, information on the source of funds, eg information on occupation etc.
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