Are you concerned about flying?

[snowdude2910]

Couldn't care less. I don't see the point in worrying about dying obviously I don't try to kill myself but if I was in a plane as it was crashing I think it would be quite enlightening.

[boobles]

I wonder if any of these poor people had any concerns.


http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/7-britons-dead-in-nepal-...

[anonymous-user]

PoleDriver said:

Unfortunately the airports don't like using the auto land system too much as it always tends to bring the planes down on the same spot and the runway gets worn pretty fast!

Where did you hear that?

[PoleDriver]

el stovey said:

PoleDriver said:

Unfortunately the airports don't like using the auto land system too much as it always tends to bring the planes down on the same spot and the runway gets worn pretty fast!

Where did you hear that?

Engineers and support staff working for F.L.S. Aerospace at Luton

[anonymous-user]

PoleDriver said:

el stovey said:

PoleDriver said:

Unfortunately the airports don't like using the auto land system too much as it always tends to bring the planes down on the same spot and the runway gets worn pretty fast!

Where did you hear that?

Engineers and support staff working for F.L.S. Aerospace at Luton

So they are saying Luton airport doesn't like people doing autolands as it wears out the runway? They're wrong or taking the piss because it's not true. Aircraft will not land on the same spot on the runway doing an auto land, it's simply not that accurate. Any aircraft engineer that knows about how an aircraft's autoland system actually performs will tell you that, anyone that's sat in the flightdeck for a few auto lands can tell you that also.

Also, it's not the airports using any "auto land system" it's the aircraft and the pilots operating them that are using the Autoland system. The Airport simply has an ILS which is switched on or off and in Low visibility operations is given a bit more protection. The auto land system is part of the aircraft and uses the ILS at the airport. Luton airport ILS will be on most of the time. They aren't switching on an auto land system, the pilots are deciding if they need to autoland and will usually only do that when the visibility is poor. I've had the misfortune of having to do autolands at LTN and elsewhere and I can assure you that It will not land the aircraft in the same place all the time, certainly not enough to be causing damage to runways.

[Chuck328]

el stovey said:

Aircraft will not land on the same spot on the runway doing an auto land, it's simply not that accurate.

fking lucky if you get the bugger to land on and maintain the centre line let alone hit the same spot every time.

[Alfanatic]

el stovey said:

So they are saying Luton airport doesn't like people doing autolands as it wears out the runway? They're wrong or taking the piss because it's not true. Aircraft will not land on the same spot on the runway doing an auto land, it's simply not that accurate. Any aircraft engineer that knows about how an aircraft's autoland system actually performs will tell you that, anyone that's sat in the flightdeck for a few auto lands can tell you that also.

Also, it's not the airports using any "auto land system" it's the aircraft and the pilots operating them that are using the Autoland system. The Airport simply has an ILS which is switched on or off and in Low visibility operations is given a bit more protection. The auto land system is part of the aircraft and uses the ILS at the airport. Luton airport ILS will be on most of the time. They aren't switching on an auto land system, the pilots are deciding if they need to autoland and will usually only do that when the visibility is poor. I've had the misfortune of having to do autolands at LTN and elsewhere and I can assure you that It will not land the aircraft in the same place all the time, certainly not enough to be causing damage to runways.

how accurate is it then? 10ft, 20? 30? And how accurate is it laterally?

[speedtwelve]

TangerinePool said:

But but the media say all planes crash and burn if its windy, rain, fog, snow, ice etc.

Would love to send a few of these journalists on a windy landing where the plane has to 'crab' onto the runway - the look of horror as they stare out their side window straight down the runway would be priceless

It's quite bizarre doing an instrument approach in a really beefy crosswind. One of you looks out into the murk for the approach lights while the other flies the approach on instruments looking head-down at the flight director. Despite the amount of drift being indicated on the Horizontal Situation Indicator or Nav Display it's often a surprise when you become visual and the approach lights are in the side window as opposed to straight ahead! When I did corporate jet stuff if the pilot flying the approach couldn't identify the lights when the other called 'visual' then the other would take control and visually land the a/c as he'd already tallied the runway and had a better situational awareness picture.

[anonymous-user]

Ray Luxury-Yacht said:

kris450 said:

So far the best I've found for a full on CAT III autoland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsiGD-e1gAM&fea...

Seriously impressive how all the various systems come together to get you down so safely.

Seriously impressive how dangerous that is. Can't believe professionals would risk that.

It's not dangerous, they use ILS so know where the plane is in relation to the runway at all times. It's been used since the 60s!

[Brite spark]

dave_s13 said:

This could be rather interesting

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-plane-crash

Thursday at 9, does look like it could be good.

[Gazzas86]

Brite spark said:

dave_s13 said:

This could be rather interesting

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-plane-crash

Thursday at 9, does look like it could be good.

From what i read about the programme, to summarise.... the further you sit towards the rear of the plane the safer.....

Anyway i wanna see it so have Sky + it!, should be an interesting watch.

[Issi]

Friend of mine once dropped his passport through a floor grille on a plane in Malaysia ( i think he said), when he enquired about getting it back, he was allegedly told that the rats that live within the fuselage would have eaten it by then.

Not sure of this one, but he's not prone to fibbing.

[Legend83]

Gazzas86 said:

From what i read about the programme, to summarise.... the further you sit towards the rear of the plane the safer.....

In that particular crash dynamic. What if the pilot pulls up at the last secone and the tail is the first part of the aircraft to take impact? Or if the aircraft lands on it's side?

Will be interesting but not sure they can unequivocally state that sitting near the back is safer from one test crash.

Data collected from a larger sample of actual crashes over the years would surely be better research.

[JCW]

Gazzas86 said:

I'm not afraid of the flying part, just the bit where i'm stuck in a metal tube with lots of people and that i can't get out of. random i know.

And that is the scary bit. Having deplaned using the emergency slides due to an engine fire, the sheer stupidity of people grabbing hand bags, ignoring instructions and not realising where the emergency exits are beggared belief.

My advice is to have a good look around you when the safety briefing is being conducted. See the individuals who are too cool to pay attention? Or the ones too busy talking to each other? They're the ones to stay clear of in the event of an emergency...

[chunkymonkey71]

Shallow flying and stir flying are fine, but I'm not a fan of deep flying.

Solly, is that lacist?

[chunkymonkey71]

retrobob said:

I had a job working in an airport up close to the planes when ever I wanted to and lets say I saw a lot of things that worried me so yes flying worries me a lot > over and out.

This is probably the worst place to ask but I'm intrigued... tell me more!

[Legend83]

retrobob said:

I knew someone would ask >

Well to keep it brief I regularly saw fuel doors and fuel caps left off > I saw bird strikes etc patched up with with 200 mph tape > Engineers counting the oil drips on the engines hoping they could let them go.

I don't want to scare anyone but I saw planes that I wouldn't get on.

What rhymes with the airport / airline you are talking about??

[Justin Cyder]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I also worked at an airport & would not put much creedence in a non LAME or a non pilot making value judgements about the airworthyness or otherwise of a particular aircraft.

Put it this way, a licensed aircraft engineer carrying thousands of hours of experience and training is far more likely to understand the capabilities and weaknesses of a given engine type or airframe than the guy who drives the catering truck & sees an oil leak or a piece of speedtape and then decides that the whole thing is a scandal.

[TangerinePool]

What absolute fg bs!

If that was the case we'd have more planes falling out the sky than the current ZERO that do. 1989 was the last time we had a fatal crash with one of our aircraft and that was due to pilot error and poor procedures for dealing with a blind engine failure, not 'errant use of gaffer tape'.

Media driven dramatised bt to feed the masses with stupid non-existent scary stories fs me off and is why I struggled for so long to deal with my fear of flying. Others will never get over it and its because of st like this!

See through the crap, deal with FACTS and then make a judgement about how safe flying from the UK is.

[tvrolet]

Ari said:

Started a job that requires a bit of international flying about a year ago. Love the travelling, not sure I'd say I hate the flying, but distinctly uneasy about it.

I rationalise it all the time, realise probably more dangerous driving to the airport etc, but it's just being... up there. At least if you're in a car crash you're already on the ground.

I find myself analysing every noise, every change in engine note, every bump, even scrutinising every passenger in the boarding queue. Pointless.

Anyone else do this?

Anyone got past it?

Do this? - yes.
Got past it? - not really.

Unfortunately I fly domestic (Edinburgh-London) every week and trans atlantic every couple of months. Just back from Hawaii (although admittedly a holiday), off to London on Friday, then down again on Monday, then Seattle the week after Gold card holder on BA and Star Alliance...and I hate every minute of it!

This all really annoys me as I know how illogical the fear is - I've read the books, I know how things work, but I range from being moderately concerned to downrght terrified in bad turbulence. I've had all sorts of nasty turbulence, diverts due to smoke in the cabin, turn-back over the atlantic with tech faults, landings in snow, take-offs in gales and given I've come through it all, logic suggests that this should be reassuring - but it isn't.

What I have found is familiarity with the plane and route helps. The more you fly a particular aircraft type on a particular route the easier it gets. I know this as when they substitiue an aircraft type the next few flights are a bit less easy. Part of that is knowing the noises and feelings to expect on that plane type.

Familiarity with the route helps too - for example you can anticipate turbulence coming up to Greenland transatlantic so it's not such a shock; you can expect bumps over the rockies. Lhr-Edi taking off to the west you get to know they'll cut the engines back and level off just after turing right, then climb again a few miniutes later.

Alcohol helps. Not so useful if you're working at the other end, but a couple of drinks takes the edge off.

Your quack can prescribe valium. It helps too and I carry some (execpt on ME flights here they lock you up for it I gather). I tend not to use it as a matter of course, but it's a good 'insurance policy' to have in your pocket. If the going gets real tough (real bumpy) you can always munch on one. I'm not sure if its really the tablets that help or just the psycological effect of thinking they'll help...but it works.

Don't watch plane crash investigation programs, or read about aircraft accidents. I used to, and rather then helping, the incidents I became aware of just haunted me so avoid!

If your company (or you) are paying for business class or better then great. In my case I only ever get to fly cattle-class. The further forward you are on the plane the better - there's nowhere worse than the back few rows of a 747 - it's like a roller coaster back there, and the cheap seats are always at the back with the better classes further forward. Luckily I have a gold card and can pre-select [cheap] seats so at least I can get in the front few rows of cattle class, so typically around the wing which is fine. But if I didn't, I'd be paying the extra as anywhere near the back can be a real rough ride, and it's noisier too.

Get noise-cancelling headphones and put somrthing you really want to see on an iPad/iPod. Sure there are in-flight movies but it's better if you take something you really want to see (as in download a TopGear or something and make a point of 'missing it' on the TV). Even if it's just music, noise cancelling headphones make a big difference to blotting out the whole flying experience.

What I do like is on United/Continental flights one of the audio channels is listening in on the flight deck. I find this real useful to listen to as you can hear the pilots talking to the controllers and other pilots looking for a 'smooth ride' [they're Americans after all], plus you know in advance if they're going to climb or descend. I guess it wouldn't be so neat to listen in on an emergency, but I guess the cut the sound at that time!

I've also tried hypnotherapy, but in truth it wasn't much use.

So in summary the more you learn and have experience about the particular aircraft and route the better...but this is such a deep seated and illogical fear that once started I don't think you ever shake it. And my case (like other folks I've talked to) it had a trigger - a particularly bad spot of turbulance. Prior to that I flew without a worry. From that point on I became concerned, and have never managed to shake it.

It's always amusing when someone says 'you just need to fly a bit more to get used to it!'. I think I counted 50+ domestic flights in the last year or so; 4 European, 1 Middle East and 4 trans-atlantics plus one trans-pacific. (in fact double it, as these are 'returns')..and it doesn't get any better Familiarity, anticipation, booze, valium in your pocket, sit as far forward as you can, noise cancelling headphones and your own movies/tunes - that's about it really.