Ryanair Cancellations
Discussion
The Spruce goose said:
the thing was the first cancellation they weren't going to publish a list of affected flights until they were pushed to do so. They basically don't really care about the customers, just the share holders.
Probably true, and always has been - but at least the customers know that. It just does what it says on the tin, it flies you from A to B.
I think it's clear with the new cancellations that it must be more than pilots have the desire for a holiday.
I don't fly RR very often, but the pilots all seem to be competent. The issue being that one does not know how competent until the s
t hits the fan. Having said that they have been operating for years very aggressively with few public 'upsets'.
While we can knock them for using newer pilots, they have to start somewhere, and the only reason that pilots have the desire to move to the legacy airlines is the terms and conditions are far better (and the planes bigger/longer distance etc),
Given the hours that they fly I wonder how many pilots hit their max annual flying hours early. They go for max efficiency, but that could really hurt them if pilots are leaving in huge numbers.
It may be that O'Leary has got his attitude wrong again. He has already admitted that being nice to customers was surprisingly good for the firm. Maybe he is going to have to take this approach to his staff too.....
I don't fly RR very often, but the pilots all seem to be competent. The issue being that one does not know how competent until the s
t hits the fan. Having said that they have been operating for years very aggressively with few public 'upsets'. While we can knock them for using newer pilots, they have to start somewhere, and the only reason that pilots have the desire to move to the legacy airlines is the terms and conditions are far better (and the planes bigger/longer distance etc),
Given the hours that they fly I wonder how many pilots hit their max annual flying hours early. They go for max efficiency, but that could really hurt them if pilots are leaving in huge numbers.
It may be that O'Leary has got his attitude wrong again. He has already admitted that being nice to customers was surprisingly good for the firm. Maybe he is going to have to take this approach to his staff too.....
whoami said:
The CAA are stepping in.https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/27/r...
RA are taking the piss, they can't treat passengers this way. Could get legally ugly and expensive.
hornetrider said:
whoami said:
The CAA are stepping in.https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/27/r...
RA are taking the piss, they can't treat passengers this way. Could get legally ugly and expensive.
Gary C said:
Yes, but as has been pointed out, if they still make >1bn profit, then o'leary doesn't care, shareholders don't care and passengers still will go for the cheapest.
''Their fellow shareholder NN Investment Partners said in a recent report that it had “growing concern about how the airline pays its staff and interacts with unions”.The Spruce goose said:
Gary C said:
Yes, but as has been pointed out, if they still make >1bn profit, then o'leary doesn't care, shareholders don't care and passengers still will go for the cheapest.
''Their fellow shareholder NN Investment Partners said in a recent report that it had “growing concern about how the airline pays its staff and interacts with unions”.I for one, would love to see o'leary booted, but I agree with others, if they make enough money, he will be safe I think.
If the pilots fully unionise, he has already said he would refuse to talk to any union representation. Now that might put the cat amongst the pigeons.
Reasons for Declining
The conditions they offer to a cabin crew now are really not acceptable. You have to pay the training and all other expenses during the training like accommodation, food... (no other airline has such a rule), you pay also your uniform fee every month for the first year, on-call duties are not paid; your income doesn't depend on a place where you're based (same salary for bases for example in the UK and Latvia and you don't know your base before you pay the training fee, it's difficult to relocate, cabin crew members are queuing for the best bases).
Last but not least there is no base salary, you earn only what you fly (only 7€/h!!! Only hours in the air are counted) and a % from what you sell onboard.
https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Interview/Ryanair-Cabi...
The conditions they offer to a cabin crew now are really not acceptable. You have to pay the training and all other expenses during the training like accommodation, food... (no other airline has such a rule), you pay also your uniform fee every month for the first year, on-call duties are not paid; your income doesn't depend on a place where you're based (same salary for bases for example in the UK and Latvia and you don't know your base before you pay the training fee, it's difficult to relocate, cabin crew members are queuing for the best bases).
Last but not least there is no base salary, you earn only what you fly (only 7€/h!!! Only hours in the air are counted) and a % from what you sell onboard.
https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Interview/Ryanair-Cabi...
Pilots have to pay for an interview and their training. Ryanair sees it as a revenue stream.
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advic...
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advic...
hornetrider said:
The CAA are stepping in.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/27/r...
RA are taking the piss, they can't treat passengers this way. Could get legally ugly and expensive.
If you look at the statement for the 2nd lot of cancellations they may be getting ahead of that now https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/27/r...
RA are taking the piss, they can't treat passengers this way. Could get legally ugly and expensive.
'(b) We have also emailed each of the 315,000 customers whose flights were previously cancelled over a 6 week period in Sept and Oct. (Ryanair carries 15m customers every 6 weeks) We have offered each of these customers a €40 travel voucher (€80 return), again for travel between October and March 2018. This flight voucher is in addition to the flight re-accommodation/refunds they received last week, and applicable to the EU261 compensation which they may claim and receive over the coming weeks. (Note: €40 per seat exceeds Ryanair current ave. fare).'
http://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-to-end-r...
God knows what they were thinking when they started this.
gregs656 said:
God knows what they were thinking when they started this.
I go back to my much earlier observation on page 3 a couple of weeks ago:Speed 3 said:
As someone who previously worked for one of Ryanair's major competitors, I find their approach a bit mystifying. The summer peak is over so there's plenty of wet-lease capacity to cover flights they can't operate because of crewing shortages. There is also no excuse for doing the cancellations at such short notice. We had a similar issue with not being able to cover the flying program we'd sold over 6 months previously. That was resolved by getting in 4 aircraft and crews from someone else and cancelling the minimum number of flights we could (high frequency destinations with alternates still running, low booking levels etc) but at plenty of advance notice. It was costly and galling when we had our own aircraft parked up but we took it in the shorts because we'd ballsed up our capacity planning.
If you're in the st you don't keep digging: be proactive, take it in the gonads, STFU and you'll emerge with your reputation largely intact, just a few shareholders to placate rather than most of 'em. Their bill is going to be far higher in the end than ours was.The Spruce goose said:
we are not talking about past flights we are talking about the present situation.
Most people won't change their plans, despite this complete mess up. Ryanair fly from/to so many different places that many customers will just pause for a month or two, and then have to book with Ryanair again as usual.Robertj21a said:
Most people won't change their plans, despite this complete mess up. Ryanair fly from/to so many different places that many customers will just pause for a month or two, and then have to book with Ryanair again as usual.
About 800,000 people have been forced to change their plans.I can't think of anywhere I might wish to go to where I would 'have to book with Ryanair'. I certainly wouldn't plan travel with them until there was a full resolution to the mess they're in, which seems an awfully long way off, given that we haven't yet been told exactly what that mess is.
The 'cock up with the crew rostering' excuse is dead in the water now.
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