buying an apartment in spain

[Chris Stott]

Don't rent ours either... although I have let a few trusted friends use it on occassion (no young children!!), and my retired inlaws use it a lot.

If you're planning to rent, you clearly need to think about how you furnish - and ours is done how we want it, with no concession to how practical that makes it. Light coloured furnishings do not mix well with groups of lads on golf breaks and hen parties spilling red wine everywhere and sitting on our cream couch covered in sun cream.



This morning I pretty much confirmed I'll be moving to ours for at least 3 months, but more likely until Christmas - I'm planning to drive down after I've done the Fastnet 1st week in August. Also planning to do a language course while I'm there.

Can't wait.

For Superlightr

[Phil.]

Shnozz,

I'll try and answer your points in some sort of order

Unfortunately my builders won't be interested in a trip up the coast. They are inundated with work locally. You definitely need more than one opinion on the work you need doing, especially when it comes to the weather proof membrane. If that leaks then its difficult to patch and the gota fria begins you will be in trouble! I've landed and driven through a gota fira - not a nice experience. My advice is pop in to your local bar and ask the residents/owners for recommendations. Ideally you're after someone you can build a long term relationship with and can trust.

If you change all the tiles and put a new membrane down its a big job. I don't know the footage of my terraces but it took a team of 3 workers 7-10 days to complete and its a real mess of a job. Up until I decided to have the work done I was advised to leave the terraces as they were and not to chance creating a problem with the original membrane. I'm sure your pointing is worth doing though.

Yes, I gave a key to my agents. We also changed the locks when we first bought it (they did it for us) and they are the only other party with a key (and they know this). As I said previously, once you have internet (and there are some broadband systems in Spain that work off a small dish) you can install a couple of IP cameras which provides piece of mind even when you are having work done and you are in the UK.

I think your wood burner will have a significant impact on heating your place. If you need it then add a couple of oil filled radiators for your guests to use at xmas.

To clarify my dehumidifier units are portable, relatively low cost devices, but still work fine. I store them when we visit. This sort of thing:

http://www.leroymerlin.es/fp/81898351/deshumidific...

I just stick the pipe in a toilet and leave all the doors open downstairs when we leave. You can also buy small bags of crystals and refillable plastic containers from Carrefour for a few quid each but leave them in an open sink as they can overflow. This would provide you with a test of how much moisture there is and you can then decide if you need a portable unit or not. Again, this sort of thing but they are normally round and blue at Carrefour:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kontrol-Streamline-Moistu...

Ha ha - as soon as you have Internet you'll have IPTV

Hear what you say about a car purchase and the flexibility. No doubt I'll end up in a similar position over the next few years. In the meantime, purchase an annual waver insurance for about £40 per year and forget about hire car companies trying it on (I use iCarHire Insurance). Then just claim back any losses. They hire car companies have only tried it on with me once in the past 10 years or so and I had a photo to prove the scratch wasn't mine. Sorted! Ironically, given the recent bad press, I use Goldcar at Murcia and they have been fine. I just book a front seat on the plan and leg it off to be first in the queue. Seems to work.

We often stock up with consumables (beer obviously) before we leave. If we let other people use it then we wouldn't have a clue what was there and what wasn't Like you we leave it as we want to find it. My kids are starting to grow up now and even they aren't using it with a load of mates

Just remember to slow down and enjoy being there once the initial DIY phase is over. We like walking and mild MTB'ing, with a bit of swimming in the summer. I'm off back in a couple of weeks - can't wait. Happy times.

[Phil.]

Very nice Chris - 3-6 months living there sounds good too.

[murray]

We actually went down the route of buying a brand new car 2.5 years ago. We fly into Alicante and got fed up with stress and hassle of car hire every 6-8 weeks. Much less hassle, but more expensive than hiring. We keep ours indoors with a company near the airport and get picked up by their minibus. Got option of parking ourselves and keeping keys with us. Wouldn’t fancy the drop off and pickup of car at airport as I’ve seen quite a few of these being driven by idiots back to where they store them.

[dmahon]

@Chris Stott

Thanks for the recommendation. I am now in touch with the agent you mentioned and will spend some time when I’m over in June.

Los Arqueros Is coming up a lot in my research. How has your experience been so far with the development?

@tigerkoi

Thanks again as ever and great points on location. Budget is up to around 750k EUR but ideally less in case the whole project doesn’t work out. Are there any areas I should be investigating with that budget in mind?

@Schnozz

If I may, what drew you to Alicante over Marbs? The weather and accessibility of Marbs really appeals, but we really like Alicante too and you seem to get a lot more for your money there. I am considering a run out in the May half term to compare the two.


Generally, community fees have come as a shock. I’m seeing some properties with 600-900 Euro/month fees, which is another mortgage on top. One to watch out for.

[Phil.]

Community charges is an interesting topic. Obviously depends what you receive in return.

I pay £5k-£6k pa. That pays for buildings insurance, water, pool maintenance, fabulous gardens, all of the community infrastructure maintenance (drains, roads, bin collections etc.), and my villa is externally re-painted every couple of years and the external woodwork is maintained.

We also have great facilities, shops, restaurants, bars, sports (golf, tennis, football, cricket) etc. on our door step (all within walking distance). And they throw in a decent firework display in Nov.

Security is probably the biggest benefit, with a dedicated Securitas team on site available immediately by phone, 24hr manned entrances, CCTV throughout the complex, regular tours around the site etc. This keeps things calm in the summer when the renters appear.

There are also various committees of volunteers looking after everything and dealing with the local Spanish politicians when required.

I’m guessing, if you bought a separate plot/house and enjoyed the equivalent facilities and piece of mind then it would cost the best part of £500 per month?

[Chris Stott]

dmahon said:

@Chris Stott

Thanks for the recommendation. I am now in touch with the agent you mentioned and will spend some time when I’m over in June.

Los Arqueros Is coming up a lot in my research. How has your experience been so far with the development?

We love it. It never gets really busy, even in high season, and the entire resort is always perfectly immaculate. Only downside is you have to drive everywhere - unless you’re close to the golf clubhouse there’s nowhere to eat within walking distance - but this isn’t a problem for us as my wife doesn’t drink. Clubhouse is a pretty decent place to eat.

Our fees are expensive - €400/month. But that’s because we have the biggest terrace of any apartment on the entire resort at 130sqm. The benefit is the resort is always immaculately maintained... we arrived last Feb and our section had been repainted over the winter (it probably would have lasted another year or 2 at least).

There’s s good 24h supermarket just a couple of mins down the road, and there’s a decent restaurant there and a bar. There’s a bigger supermarket in San Pedro that has a fabulous fish counter.... and the hyper market at la Canada (15 mins away) has pretty much anything you could think of, as well as a Leroy merlin and a Wortens (electronics retailer).

[Chris Stott]

Another thought on fees... in the UK I pay >£300/month council tax. In Spain, I pay €198/year... Doesn’t feel so bad when you look at it that way.

Edit...just saw Phil’s post... security is a massive benefit when you might not be there for months at a time. We have the same company managing our resort.

[stevemcs]

Question, would you get something reasonable for 75-100k ? ideally within an hour of the sea and 1 hour from an airport. Ideally with a balcony/terrace 2 bedrooms. Preferably with some shops and bars and not shoved down a back street. It would need to be southern Spain but i'm not fussed where. I would like Mallorca but there are less flights in the winter and prices seem to be a little higher.

[tigerkoi]

stevemcs said:

Question, would you get something reasonable for 75-100k ? ideally within an hour of the sea and 1 hour from an airport. Ideally with a balcony/terrace 2 bedrooms. Preferably with some shops and bars and not shoved down a back street. It would need to be southern Spain but i'm not fussed where. I would like Mallorca but there are less flights in the winter and prices seem to be a little higher.

Not built yet, but bonus being you wouldn’t be far from the sea at all...
If you got something with a punchy engine from rentals then you could ‘Cannonball’ it and an hour might be within reach (or fly to Gib)...

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-property/prop...

[tigerkoi]

dmahon said:

@tigerkoi

Thanks again as ever and great points on location. Budget is up to around 750k EUR but ideally less in case the whole project doesn’t work out. Are there any areas I should be investigating with that budget in mind?

No worries! 750k is a very tasty budget so would suggest you’ve got loads of leeway.

That sort of figure gets you a villa in most parts of the region, from Mijas to Estepona. Quite easily you can find a 3/4 bed with its own pool and c. .5 of an acre. But commensurate with that are the running costs, plus the security aspects the other guys point out. Where Chris is in Los Arqueros, Benahavis, is a lovely district and as a good a place to start looking as any I’d suggest?

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-property/prop... - I’d ask them if the piano can be a makeweight

I prefer this though, and pretty sure the agent would go down on that figure...

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-property/prop... - Sierra Blanca/Istan Country Club is a nice secluded gated compound, too.

Chris, Phil - love the pictures. You’ve both got lovely places.

[Phil.]

stevemcs said:

Question, would you get something reasonable for 75-100k ? ideally within an hour of the sea and 1 hour from an airport. Ideally with a balcony/terrace 2 bedrooms. Preferably with some shops and bars and not shoved down a back street. It would need to be southern Spain but i'm not fussed where. I would like Mallorca but there are less flights in the winter and prices seem to be a little higher.

You'll get better value buying south of Alicante than around the Marbs/Malaga area. For what you want I would take a look at some of the golf resorts. Here's an example which is accessible via Murcia and Alicante airports, close to the coast and lots of shops/restaurants nearby:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-property/prop...

Edited to add that this one is new and a bank repossession, looks even better:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-property/prop...


https://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-property-for-...

Edited by Phil. on Friday 10th May 09:53

[Chris Stott]

Our experience of repossessions wasn't very positive. When we went on our 'look and see trip' with the agent, she took us to a couple of developments that were almost finished, but had gone bust (and now owned by the bank).

They'd been empty for a few years, and during that time no work had been done on landscaping or the outside of the properties... so they were overgrown and paint was peeling off the outside walls. To make matter worse, the water hadn't been switched on, so the 'show apartment' stank something horrible as the drains had backed up.

Would have been OK if the prices had been super low, but they were asking €167k for a 90sqm 2 bed in an average area. We bought a 130sqm (with 130sqm terrace), 3 bedrooms, fully furnished, in near perfect condition for €220k, and could have got a similar 2 bed (but smaller terrace) for c.€170k.

Might be different now as the banks will have been sat on some of these for 10 years and might need to shift them.

[Shnozz]

I agree in that when I was looking at repossessions they didn't seem to be the bargain one might expect. Frankly I saw little saving and when factoring in the extra hassle, the fact that usually kitchen had been ripped out and other expected damage from an aggrieved defaulter, I didn't really pursue that avenue much further.

Re the golf developments, I would just throw out the caveat of making sure they are established. Perhaps not so much down in the posh Costa Del Sol, but certainly nearer my neck of the woods in the Costa Calida, there was a string of unfinished complexes and they are very surreal in being half finished, few occupied, no shops/bars (or closed) and like a ghost town in occupancy. The best of these is those whereby the money ran out before the course was even built so you have a golf complex with no golf..

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/may/25/span...

A simple location drive would of course be able to determine whether this is the case wherever you look.

[Shnozz]

dmahon said:

@Schnozz

If I may, what drew you to Alicante over Marbs? The weather and accessibility of Marbs really appeals, but we really like Alicante too and you seem to get a lot more for your money there. I am considering a run out in the May half term to compare the two.

A number of factors to be honest.

From the start, I was familiar with the region as my parents had a holiday home there (near Denia) and then a more half year home there built in the Jalon valley after that. I therefore spent big swathes of my school holidays out there in that region so many happy memories.

It's a little greener too in those parts, although that of course means a few more days of rain! That said, its remarkable how much difference there is between the North and South of the same Costa (Blanca) in terms of how desert like the scenery is toward the South and more green toward the North, yet only 90 mins or so drive between. Where I am is not too unlike the South of Spain in terms of its dry scenery and also has an average of 320 days a year of sun.

Price wise it probably offers a little more for the money, although there are cheaper parts of the CDS, and expensive parts of the CB, so unless you have a fixation on a particular place and can be flexible you could find something in budget in either coast.

My main drawer, however, was the ease of "commute". For this plan to work for me required the journey back and forward to be simple - quick, cheap and without hassle. If that wasn't fulfilled, the house would have been an expensive, unused, white elephant IMO. Given this was my Lamborghini fund that I had promised I would buy myself this last year when I hit the big 40, I didn't want to put it into an unused house My partner is a lecturer at university and so, whilst flexible, still has to be in work on a regular basis. I have less requirement to do so, but with life still UK based primarily, even social life dictates we have to be coming and going regularly.

With that in mind, my primary factor was working out the easiest commute I could find. AGP airport is still very good in that regard, and flights often cheaper than Alicante. However, the parts of the CDS that I could afford, and would want to live in, were an hour from AGP (or more). The flight was another 30 mins South. It's small amounts, but they add up.

In my case, my local airport in the UK is 20 mins away. Its a regional airport so tiny and a breeze to get through security in minutes. You can therefore leave less than an hour until the flight to arrive. Laptop out in the lounge, have a bite to eat and climb aboard. Less than 2.5 hours later I am landing in ALC and then I am about 20 mins drive the other end. In reverse its simple too - one benefit of Spain's airports is that only Barcelona and Madrid fly long haul, so even the larger regional airports are too bad to get through, certainly not outside of peak seasons.

It might seem odd that my primary focus was on an easy commute, but as I say, buying it when we both work (and are far from retirement ages) meant that I felt if it was an arse to get to, a few trips later and it would be out of favour and certainly with the Mrs if she was having to go back and forward every week or so due to her more on the ground work commitments.

[Shnozz]

Phil. said:

Shnozz,

I'll try and answer your points in some sort of order

Unfortunately my builders won't be interested in a trip up the coast. They are inundated with work locally. You definitely need more than one opinion on the work you need doing, especially when it comes to the weather proof membrane. If that leaks then its difficult to patch and the gota fria begins you will be in trouble! I've landed and driven through a gota fira - not a nice experience. My advice is pop in to your local bar and ask the residents/owners for recommendations. Ideally you're after someone you can build a long term relationship with and can trust.

If you change all the tiles and put a new membrane down its a big job. I don't know the footage of my terraces but it took a team of 3 workers 7-10 days to complete and its a real mess of a job. Up until I decided to have the work done I was advised to leave the terraces as they were and not to chance creating a problem with the original membrane. I'm sure your pointing is worth doing though.

Yes, I gave a key to my agents. We also changed the locks when we first bought it (they did it for us) and they are the only other party with a key (and they know this). As I said previously, once you have internet (and there are some broadband systems in Spain that work off a small dish) you can install a couple of IP cameras which provides piece of mind even when you are having work done and you are in the UK.

I think your wood burner will have a significant impact on heating your place. If you need it then add a couple of oil filled radiators for your guests to use at xmas.

To clarify my dehumidifier units are portable, relatively low cost devices, but still work fine. I store them when we visit. This sort of thing:

http://www.leroymerlin.es/fp/81898351/deshumidific...

I just stick the pipe in a toilet and leave all the doors open downstairs when we leave. You can also buy small bags of crystals and refillable plastic containers from Carrefour for a few quid each but leave them in an open sink as they can overflow. This would provide you with a test of how much moisture there is and you can then decide if you need a portable unit or not. Again, this sort of thing but they are normally round and blue at Carrefour:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kontrol-Streamline-Moistu...

Ha ha - as soon as you have Internet you'll have IPTV

Hear what you say about a car purchase and the flexibility. No doubt I'll end up in a similar position over the next few years. In the meantime, purchase an annual waver insurance for about £40 per year and forget about hire car companies trying it on (I use iCarHire Insurance). Then just claim back any losses. They hire car companies have only tried it on with me once in the past 10 years or so and I had a photo to prove the scratch wasn't mine. Sorted! Ironically, given the recent bad press, I use Goldcar at Murcia and they have been fine. I just book a front seat on the plan and leg it off to be first in the queue. Seems to work.

We often stock up with consumables (beer obviously) before we leave. If we let other people use it then we wouldn't have a clue what was there and what wasn't Like you we leave it as we want to find it. My kids are starting to grow up now and even they aren't using it with a load of mates

Just remember to slow down and enjoy being there once the initial DIY phase is over. We like walking and mild MTB'ing, with a bit of swimming in the summer. I'm off back in a couple of weeks - can't wait. Happy times.

Phil, thanks again for all the info.

I already have the annual excess cover but nonetheless, still don't enjoy the experience of having the hire company put over a grand on my card and then feel the lottery as to whether I will see it all back, or when it will be back into my account etc etc. With the cover in addition I should be protected but its just so rife with scams in that industry I am always on edge, particularly when it strikes me that many firms must almost be obliged to pull some fast one to make any money when they are charging such a pitiful sum for hire!

IP camera ordered for inside. Also based on what you have said I have ordered one of these too. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B071HVDDFB/ref...

Looks quite clever in that you can even programme it to "talk" to other smart devices so in theory even without interaction from me, if the humidity were to say drop to below 40%, it could switch on a smart-plugged dehumidifier. Alternatively, I can have alarms sent to my phone to tell me if the humidity drops to that level and just switch on the devices remotely. Be interesting to see what sort of temps and humidity the house is subject to. No doubt thoroughly depressing when sat in a cold UK seeing that your house is lovely and toasty in mid winter

Noted what you say re the woodburner - I will accelerate getting quotes and aim to have this in before winter.

Once again, many thanks. Going Friday and cannot come quick enough! And your point to enjoy it is salient advice!

[Tresco]

An enjoyable and timely thread.

Just returned from Portugal where we've holidayed for the last 30 years and having always said 'what's the point of buying when you can rent' we're now thinking of buying something. I can work from anywhere but the Wife is committed to the UK for the next couple of years which means I'd be out there more, you chaps who have bought abroad did you join golf/tennis/car clubs etc to meet people?

I like the Algarve but can see it's an older community and I'm not quite ready for the bridge and bowls set yet.

[tigerkoi]

Tresco said:

An enjoyable and timely thread.

Just returned from Portugal where we've holidayed for the last 30 years and having always said 'what's the point of buying when you can rent' we're now thinking of buying something. I can work from anywhere but the Wife is committed to the UK for the next couple of years which means I'd be out there more, you chaps who have bought abroad did you join golf/tennis/car clubs etc to meet people?

I like the Algarve but can see it's an older community and I'm not quite ready for the bridge and bowls set yet.

Hi there - just do it!
In answer to your question, we didn’t join any clubs to meet people specifically, more just because we do the things we do, like play tennis etc.

My wife enjoys and joined Cala Golf because of the facilities but through that inevitably she’s made some useful contacts and the ball rolls from there. To be honest, there were a stack of Brits there the other day obviously having their old boys golfing weekend get together and they did find it hard not to keep themselves to themselves and had to project loudly how well they were all doing with their double-glazing business or whatever. And more and more slowly into my chair I did therefore sink

I think in the living places where you’re naturally going to have a formal community setup - often based on communal charges and amenities - then not only do you get better chance to grow relationships and build a network, but it’s almost incumbent on healthy relations to get on with those you live around anyway.

Interested little sidestory on the recent death of Freddie Starr. I read somewhere that in his block I think he had fallen down on paying his community charges or something and all the neighbours were pretty ticked off about it. One guy even says they just avoided each other in the street. That’s not healthy.

Really great relationships in my experience are more likely to occur due to proximity to good neighbours in Spain (and I suspect similarly Portugal) over and above clubs, as such.

France though, that’s another case. I digress, but have to mention it for a laugh. A close member of my family bought a grand old chateau down in the SoF. Completely run down but they put heaps of money into it. You’d think the locals would be welcoming. Never....the last time I went there I half expected the locals to turn up with pitchforks in the middle of the night. Relationships were rotten and quite simply they weren’t too enamoured with non-French buying up their properties. In Spain though, the welcome has been first rate.

[Tresco]

tigerkoi said:

Hi there - just do it!
In answer to your question, we didn’t join any clubs to meet people specifically, more just because we do the things we do, like play tennis etc.

My wife enjoys and joined Cala Golf because of the facilities but through that inevitably she’s made some useful contacts and the ball rolls from there. To be honest, there were a stack of Brits there the other day obviously having their old boys golfing weekend get together and they did find it hard not to keep themselves to themselves and had to project loudly how well they were all doing with their double-glazing business or whatever. And more and more slowly into my chair I did therefore sink

I think in the living places where you’re naturally going to have a formal community setup - often based on communal charges and amenities - then not only do you get better chance to grow relationships and build a network, but it’s almost incumbent on healthy relations to get on with those you live around anyway.

Interested little sidestory on the recent death of Freddie Starr. I read somewhere that in his block I think he had fallen down on paying his community charges or something and all the neighbours were pretty ticked off about it. One guy even says they just avoided each other in the street. That’s not healthy.

Really great relationships in my experience are more likely to occur due to proximity to good neighbours in Spain (and I suspect similarly Portugal) over and above clubs, as such.

France though, that’s another case. I digress, but have to mention it for a laugh. A close member of my family bought a grand old chateau down in the SoF. Completely run down but they put heaps of money into it. You’d think the locals would be welcoming. Never....the last time I went there I half expected the locals to turn up with pitchforks in the middle of the night. Relationships were rotten and quite simply they weren’t too enamoured with non-French buying up their properties. In Spain though, the welcome has been first rate.

Yep that all makes sense although the onus will probably be on me to broaden our social circle as I'll be out there more, interesting regarding France, I recall a Grand Designs episode where an older, (probably my age!), couple took on a major restoration project and were learning as they went - I remember the guy making flights of staircases from a DIY manual, their experiences with the locals seemed to be the opposite although maybe that was for the cameras..

[Yetski]

Gareth1974 said:

Have you visited the brewery in Manilva? https://www.grandeselect.com/the-brewery/
Found it on my last visit to Duquesa, popped in just to buy a couple of bottles, the owner is very proud of his set-up there, ended up being given a tour and samples. Worth a look if you like beer.

Only seen your post this morning, as we've just returned from a pretty hectic but excellent time back in Duquesa, but yes we went to Gran de Select last year with a group of friends as something different, for one of their birthdays, we did the grand tour with the pairing meal, and to be honest it was a good afternoon, boy is the guy passionate, fair play to him