buying an apartment in spain

[arfur]

eyebeebe said:

Phil. said:

swanseaboydan said:

Is there an equivalent to the golden visa for renters ?

No unfortunately. This new development looks like your best bet if you generate your income from third-party countries.

I thought that property purchase was only one of the criteria for a golden visa? You can also deposit €1m in a bank or buy Spanish shares for the same amount. Beyond the means of most for sure, but might be useful for the OP to know.

Property purchase needs to be >500K euro as well excl taxes

[Phil.]

swanseaboydan said:

So rent for 90 days at a time I suppose …

Remember it’s for time spent in the whole of the Schengen area so if you visit other countries it counts towards your 90 days.

[r3g]

Can anyone tell me what the most popular spanish property websites are please. Rightmove Overseas is predictably just as bad as the UK version when it comes to filtering. You get 300000 pages of unwanted identikit apartments/condos which are occasionaly interspersed by something interesting with some land and your own pool.

And same question for Portugal too .

[CharlesdeGaulle]

For Portugal, try greenacres.

https://www.green-acres.pt/en

[arfur]

r3g said:

Can anyone tell me what the most popular spanish property websites are please. Rightmove Overseas is predictably just as bad as the UK version when it comes to filtering. You get 300000 pages of unwanted identikit apartments/condos which are occasionaly interspersed by something interesting with some land and your own pool.

And same question for Portugal too .

https://www.idealista.com/

You can draw a search area as well ..

[Phil.]

r3g said:

Can anyone tell me what the most popular spanish property websites are please. Rightmove Overseas is predictably just as bad as the UK version when it comes to filtering. You get 300000 pages of unwanted identikit apartments/condos which are occasionaly interspersed by something interesting with some land and your own pool.

And same question for Portugal too .

Probably best to seek out local estate agents in the areas you are interested in.

[r3g]

THank you chaps.

2 questions :

1. ref the Portugal site from cdg - what does property type T1, T2, T3 ,T4 etc signify? It doesn't correlate to the number of bedrooms or levels.
2. what is the general consensus on property price comparison for Spain vs Portugal, like for like? Are they the same or is one noticeably cheaper than the other per m2?
2a. Ignore all the visa stuff and assume you have residency and will be living in it, not renting it, should one still expect to budget around 10% on top of the purchase price for fees and IBI/taxes?
2b. what would yearly property tax be appoximately on 200m2 of living on a 5000m2 plot? Property valued 390k euro.
Thanks!

[arfur]

r3g said:

THank you chaps.

2 questions :

1. ref the Portugal site from cdg - what does property type T1, T2, T3 ,T4 etc signify? It doesn't correlate to the number of bedrooms or levels.
2. what is the general consensus on property price comparison for Spain vs Portugal, like for like? Are they the same or is one noticeably cheaper than the other per m2?
2a. Ignore all the visa stuff and assume you have residency and will be living in it, not renting it, should one still expect to budget around 10% on top of the purchase price for fees and IBI/taxes?
2b. what would yearly property tax be appoximately on 200m2 of living on a 5000m2 plot? Property valued 390k euro.
Thanks!

2. That all depends where you are looking. You can get some amazing Finca with 30000m2 land for 200k euro in some areas. In other areas that will get you a small 2 bed apartment without a sea view. I'd suggest picking a couple of areas in Portugal and Spain and simply do a bit of homework on your PC. Worth noting that certainly in Spain (I know nothing about Portugal) the advertised price is very speculative unless it's a new-build.
2a. Assume 20% total in Spain to have the keys in your hand.

[CharlesdeGaulle]

Ref Q1. The T normally refers to the number of rooms, usually bedrooms. A T0 would be a studio for example. T3 a 3 bedroom place. You'll find exceptions but that seems to be the general rule. You'll rarely see a floorplan, which is frustrating.

[Chris Stott]

r3g said:

THank you chaps.

2 questions :

1. ref the Portugal site from cdg - what does property type T1, T2, T3 ,T4 etc signify? It doesn't correlate to the number of bedrooms or levels.
2. what is the general consensus on property price comparison for Spain vs Portugal, like for like? Are they the same or is one noticeably cheaper than the other per m2?
2a. Ignore all the visa stuff and assume you have residency and will be living in it, not renting it, should one still expect to budget around 10% on top of the purchase price for fees and IBI/taxes?
2b. what would yearly property tax be appoximately on 200m2 of living on a 5000m2 plot? Property valued 390k euro.
Thanks!

Spain is a federal system of government… a bit like the US…. So annual costs depend on where your property is located.

My property falls under Benahavis. It is 130sqm internal, 130sqm external, value is c.€400-450k… my annual property tax is €184. But Benahavis is one of the richest municipalities in Andalucia, so taxes here are low. If my place fell under Marbella I’d be paying maybe double that. Same with car tax… €90/year for my 3.0d X5.

In Spain, you need to budget 10% for ‘stamp duty’ plus another 1.25% if the property is brand new. And another 1-2% for legal fees.

I’d always advise to buy the property you really want and never see yourself selling… property prices are quite stable and the cost to move is very high… selling agent fees are 5%. So you can be looking at 17% cost to move.

[r3g]

Obrigado's and gracias's.
Chris, those numbers seem quite insignificant all things considered, so that's good. Of course, in the UK a £400k place would typically be looking at £2-3k per year in CT which was why I wanted to check on the situation out there - and your comments about it varying depending on region are noted.

Will have a mosey at the Spanish site tomorrow and see how the prices compare.

Q. 2c. Is there some sort of planning law in Spain and Portugal to stop people buying the land right in front of your place that overlooks the sea and building themselves a house on it? I ask I see lots of new-build ads just randonmly built anywhere on our equivalent of green-belt. Or is it a case of you need to buy the land yourself if you don't want a house to get built there? It would be seriously annoying if you bought the place of your dreams up in the hills without a neighbout for miles then someone bought the land adjacent to you and built a place. Any experiences chaps?

[arfur]

r3g said:

Obrigado's and gracias's.
Chris, those numbers seem quite insignificant all things considered, so that's good. Of course, in the UK a £400k place would typically be looking at £2-3k per year in CT which was why I wanted to check on the situation out there - and your comments about it varying depending on region are noted.

Will have a mosey at the Spanish site tomorrow and see how the prices compare.

Q. 2c. Is there some sort of planning law in Spain and Portugal to stop people buying the land right in front of your place that overlooks the sea and building themselves a house on it? I ask I see lots of new-build ads just randonmly built anywhere on our equivalent of green-belt. Or is it a case of you need to buy the land yourself if you don't want a house to get built there? It would be seriously annoying if you bought the place of your dreams up in the hills without a neighbout for miles then someone bought the land adjacent to you and built a place. Any experiences chaps?

2c ... generally if your brown bag of cash is big enough you can do what you like.

As an example though - this place has a guarantee that you will always be able to see the marina as part of the contract - https://www.idealista.com/inmueble/96967288/ - That does not stop someone trying though

[Chris Stott]

The general rule in Spain is if there’s land in front of your property someone will build something on it.

The days of brown paper bags full of cash are over though. Spain has pretty strong money laundering laws.

[r3g]

Chris Stott said:

The general rule in Spain is if there’s land in front of your property someone will build something on it.

The days of brown paper bags full of cash are over though. Spain has pretty strong money laundering laws.

Just looking through the ads on idealista (mainly detached, rural country houses, villas, fincas, bungalows) and 3 things have struck me :

1. Much of Spain in very mountainous. The ratio of villas bolted to the side of mountains to vlllas on reasonably flat plot is very high. You see the mountain ones claim it's on a 10k m2 plot, but when you look closer 9k of that is mountain that a goat would struggle on .

2. Another thing I've picked up on which they avoid mentioning, is the reason for the vast price differences between comparable size properties in the same locale. The reason is the orientation of the property or, more often, which side of a mountain it's been built on. Ones not on the south side will hardly see the sun because the mountain is in the way.

3. The Spanish don't seem to be aware that LCD TVs exist. I find it quite funny when browsing the interior pics of 400K+ Euro properties that so many of them have 14" CRTs in the rooms.

[arfur]

r3g said:

Just looking through the ads on idealista (mainly detached, rural country houses, villas, fincas, bungalows) and 3 things have struck me :

1. Much of Spain in very mountainous. The ratio of villas bolted to the side of mountains to vlllas on reasonably flat plot is very high. You see the mountain ones claim it's on a 10k m2 plot, but when you look closer 9k of that is mountain that a goat would struggle on .

2. Another thing I've picked up on which they avoid mentioning, is the reason for the vast price differences between comparable size properties in the same locale. The reason is the orientation of the property or, more often, which side of a mountain it's been built on. Ones not on the south side will hardly see the sun because the mountain is in the way.

3. The Spanish don't seem to be aware that LCD TVs exist. I find it quite funny when browsing the interior pics of 400K+ Euro properties that so many of them have 14" CRTs in the rooms.

If it's rural fincas you are looking for then take a look here : https://www.countryfincas.com/

[Shnozz]

arfur said:

2. That all depends where you are looking. You can get some amazing Finca with 30000m2 land for 200k euro in some areas. In other areas that will get you a small 2 bed apartment without a sea view. I'd suggest picking a couple of areas in Portugal and Spain and simply do a bit of homework on your PC. Worth noting that certainly in Spain (I know nothing about Portugal) the advertised price is very speculative unless it's a new-build.
2a. Assume 20% total in Spain to have the keys in your hand.

Re speculative pricing - my experience is that very much depends on the nationality of the seller. If Spanish owned I’ve found negotiating any sort of reduction very hard work. Same with cars. Pretty rigid on prices.

[Shnozz]

Chris Stott said:

Spain is a federal system of government… a bit like the US…. So annual costs depend on where your property is located.

My property falls under Benahavis. It is 130sqm internal, 130sqm external, value is c.€400-450k… my annual property tax is €184. But Benahavis is one of the richest municipalities in Andalucia, so taxes here are low. If my place fell under Marbella I’d be paying maybe double that. Same with car tax… €90/year for my 3.0d X5.

In Spain, you need to budget 10% for ‘stamp duty’ plus another 1.25% if the property is brand new. And another 1-2% for legal fees.

I’d always advise to buy the property you really want and never see yourself selling… property prices are quite stable and the cost to move is very high… selling agent fees are 5%. So you can be looking at 17% cost to move.

Definitely agree with that advice and if you read back to the start of this thread that was the path I followed. Original idea was to buy a small apartment as a Spanish bolt hole. However, buying and selling is such an expensive process (I was told to budget 15-17% purchase cost for taxes and fees) that I doubled the budget and bought the house I could see me in for a great number of years.

I remember my shock at finding out at the last minute before purchase they still used bankers drafts to pay for a house and the bank charged me over €1k just to draw that up.

My property tax is double that of Chris, despite property value being lower, so just shows the difference in municipalities and regions within them. Still only about 2 months of my U.K. council tax though. Car tax is same as Chris.

[RC1807]

CharlesdeGaulle said:

For Portugal, try greenacres.

https://www.green-acres.pt/en

I spend waaaaay too much time looking on there. Heading back to Estoi in about 8 weeks. Hunting in/around Tavira.

[swanseaboydan]

It seems to me that some people are happy to leave their property on the market for years without reducing it - even if it is vacant. In wales it would cost you double and soon triple council tax to leave a second home empty - is that not the case in Spain ?

[Shnozz]

swanseaboydan said:

It seems to me that some people are happy to leave their property on the market for years without reducing it - even if it is vacant. In wales it would cost you double and soon triple council tax to leave a second home empty - is that not the case in Spain ?

You’re right - no such thing in Spain.

I’ve found the motivated sellers are often the non-Spanish. Many of them British and a change in circumstances forcing a speedy sale. Often age/health/death of spouse.

The Spanish seem to be content to leave a house on the market for years as you say. My house was for sale for about 3 years and yet the Madrid owners were unwilling to negotiate when I made an offer.