Premium Economy v Business?

[djc206]

Jag_NE said:

Two days on either end, really? Business doesn’t fix jet lag or stop people farting either. If you are very wealthy fair enough but it’s called business class because work pays or you are rich enough to not give a monkeys about 2k per seat on a family holiday.

No, two days, one on either end.

The smell and noise is much reduced because there are far fewer people in the same space.

Yes it does help with jet lag, you can sleep rather than not sleep, you have to tailor that sleep to fit with where you’re going but it helps ease you into that time zone if you can get some sleep vs none. A moderate time zone difference like coming back from the States you can eliminate jet lag easily by getting a decent kip.

I don’t have kids so there are no family holidays, there are two of us. I’m also not wealthy.

[PulsatingStar]

Last time I went on a plane (economy scum) I fell asleep with the seat upright before it even took off. Id quite happily go in a coffin in the hold if it was cheap enough. I did once fly first to Japan in first thanks to a friend, and it was nice but I dont think ill ever have enough money to think thats a worthwhile use of it.

[GT03ROB]

schmalex said:

garyhun said:

number2 said:

bhstewie said:

tvrolet said:

I'm presuming the OP hasn't flown business lately?

The OP is scum who has never flown business ever.

you'll wish you hadn't as there's no turning back!

Never fly first, that will really screw you up

See. I think First is a complete waste of money

Business is a vast step up in comfort from economy but the difference between Business and First really doesn’t justify the price once you’ve got over the novelty of having a shower on board.

Every time I fly First on Emirates, I end up spending most of the flight down at the bar at the back which has a much better atmosphere than that at the front, so I may as well have saved the money / points.

Have to agree. The premium over business is generally not worth it. I wouldn't complain if somebody else was paying or as an upgrade though. Having said that you can often find good deals where 1st is about or less than the price of business. Went to Oz a few years back in First as First was less than Club! Went to Muscat back in Feb in First as again there was a cracking deal in one of the sales.

[GT03ROB]

Jag_NE said:

I don’t fully subscribe to the notion of business class being good value because you can enjoy your holiday more at the front end or arrive more refreshed for work. Business class is great but unless your holiday costs thousands a day, tick on a day or two more to recuperate or spend the 4K+ you save on a holiday that is far far better. Likewise with work, unless your time is worth 2k a day, have a recuperation day. Most of us fly business for work because the company allows it or for holidays because we are stinking rich or stupid.

With work it may be less about what your time is worth & more about your decision making ability. I may only "cost" a small amount per day but the wrong decision having crawled off a 13hr flight in economy 3 hrs before may cost infinitely more.

As for holidays many people have limited leave a year, just tacking on an extra couple of days may not be possible.

I generally fly business on holiday. Can I rationalize it financially? Nope, not at all. What I can rationalize though is not having to join the scrums at the check in desks, not arguing the toss over baggage limits (when you have a wife who can take 30kg for a short weekend away...priceless), not joining the security queues with bucket & spade mob who cannot follow simple instructions, not trying & find somewhere quiet & comfortable to sit in a heaving terminal, not worrying about if there is any room for my hand baggage. Then once I'm on the plane being in my own little world, not sat bolt upright packed in like I'm on a slave ship and being able to sleep on an overnight flight.

I also like BA (). By & large BA crews are human, where the ME3 crews are robots. ME3 service may be "better" but it lacks personality. I cannot stand transferring, I want to get on a flight & get off at my destination. With BA by & large out of London I can do that. Most importantly to me is that when the st has really hit the fan on a journeys, I've been taken care of.

[Contract Killer]

bhstewie said:

djc206 said:

Jeans and a t shirt for me too. I’m not dressing up to sit on a plane.

That was my assumption, just didn't want to turn up and find there actually is some "expectation", however absurd that might sound.

Just make sure your shoes are well polished..

When i flew with Virgin Upper Class a few years ago ( equiv of business?) while drinking their whisky in the lounge their "shoe polisher" came over and insisted he took away my shoes to polish them.

[tribalsurfer]

Contract Killer said:

bhstewie said:

djc206 said:

Jeans and a t shirt for me too. I’m not dressing up to sit on a plane.

That was my assumption, just didn't want to turn up and find there actually is some "expectation", however absurd that might sound.

Just make sure your shoes are well polished..

When i flew with Virgin Upper Class a few years ago ( equiv of business?) while drinking their whisky in the lounge their "shoe polisher" came over and insisted he took away my shoes to polish them.

How the fk do you polish a flip-flop ?

[bitchstewie]

As I seem to have got a lot of worldly travellers on this thread, if you were going somewhere for 10 days (arrive Friday, leave first thing the following Sunday) do you think trying to get stuff into a single carry on is pushing it?

I'm not sure I want to be pulling checked baggage around with me if I can help it but I'm cautious that carry on really isn't that much (though the airline does allow two bags plus a small item i.e. backpack).

I don't need to worry about suits or anything beyond trousers and shirts for the business side.

[GT03ROB]

bhstewie said:

As I seem to have got a lot of worldly travellers on this thread, if you were going somewhere for 10 days (arrive Friday, leave first thing the following Sunday) do you think trying to get stuff into a single carry on is pushing it?

I'm not sure I want to be pulling checked baggage around with me if I can help it but I'm cautious that carry on really isn't that much (though the airline does allow two bags plus a small item i.e. backpack).

I don't need to worry about suits or anything beyond trousers and shirts for the business side.

Perfectly doable with a bit of planning. You really don't need much as you can use the hotel laundry service daily if need be.

[StevieBee]

REALIST123 said:

I don't think jet lag is avoided by lying down and, from what I hear, people fart in business too.

Much better class of fart though!

Jet Lag is often used as an all-encompassing term to describe the degree of knackerdness after a long flight. I'd suggest that the weirdness you feel as a result of your body clock being out of kilter is less than 30% of what might be recognised as Jet Lag. The rest is the physical exhaustion that comes through travel; traipsing round airports, getting up at stupid o'clock to catch a flight, hauling bags, etc. Even sat on a plane, your body is constantly working to keep you upright and the ability to achieve proper restful sleep on anything other than lie-flat bed is impossible.

So whilst business or first will not necessarily counter jet lag, it will certainly lessen the impact.

[DanL]

bhstewie said:

First is an interesting one, on a factual level I'm struggling to understand at some point what paying any extra actually gets you?

Depends on the airline - they all offer better food and drink, and more space in first. With Emirates you get privacy and a nicer car to/from the airport, and dine on demand. With BA you get the first class wing at Heathrow and the Concorde room (both good), and a seat that’s equivalent of Emirate’s business class offering, except in first. Sort of dine on demand too, but the attendants are pretty keen that you eat broadly the same time as everyone else.

Neither are really “worth it” if the premium is huge, but last flight with BA it was £200 more in first than business - no brainer really. Emirates first was a touch more than BA business for a trip to Tokyo, so I took the indirect route for the experience.

Just flew back from Manila via Hong Kong with Cathay in PE for work - miserable experience in comparison to being at or near the front for 12 hours!

[schmalex]

GT03ROB said:

bhstewie said:

As I seem to have got a lot of worldly travellers on this thread, if you were going somewhere for 10 days (arrive Friday, leave first thing the following Sunday) do you think trying to get stuff into a single carry on is pushing it?

I'm not sure I want to be pulling checked baggage around with me if I can help it but I'm cautious that carry on really isn't that much (though the airline does allow two bags plus a small item i.e. backpack).

I don't need to worry about suits or anything beyond trousers and shirts for the business side.

Perfectly doable with a bit of planning. You really don't need much as you can use the hotel laundry service daily if need be.

Exactly. If you book a Club room at the hotel, you often get a number of “free” laundry items daily.

My wife travels to the US fortnightly and she gets everything into a carry-on bag as she doesn’t trust US baggage handlers! I, on the other hand, generally check luggage as I normally take a couple of suits and assorted smart casual stuff as well as regular jeans and stuff.

[Jag_NE]

GT03ROB said:

Jag_NE said:

I don’t fully subscribe to the notion of business class being good value because you can enjoy your holiday more at the front end or arrive more refreshed for work. Business class is great but unless your holiday costs thousands a day, tick on a day or two more to recuperate or spend the 4K+ you save on a holiday that is far far better. Likewise with work, unless your time is worth 2k a day, have a recuperation day. Most of us fly business for work because the company allows it or for holidays because we are stinking rich or stupid.

With work it may be less about what your time is worth & more about your decision making ability. I may only "cost" a small amount per day but the wrong decision having crawled off a 13hr flight in economy 3 hrs before may cost infinitely more.

As for holidays many people have limited leave a year, just tacking on an extra couple of days may not be possible.

I generally fly business on holiday. Can I rationalize it financially? Nope, not at all. What I can rationalize though is not having to join the scrums at the check in desks, not arguing the toss over baggage limits (when you have a wife who can take 30kg for a short weekend away...priceless), not joining the security queues with bucket & spade mob who cannot follow simple instructions, not trying & find somewhere quiet & comfortable to sit in a heaving terminal, not worrying about if there is any room for my hand baggage. Then once I'm on the plane being in my own little world, not sat bolt upright packed in like I'm on a slave ship and being able to sleep on an overnight flight.

I also like BA (). By & large BA crews are human, where the ME3 crews are robots. ME3 service may be "better" but it lacks personality. I cannot stand transferring, I want to get on a flight & get off at my destination. With BA by & large out of London I can do that. Most importantly to me is that when the st has really hit the fan on a journeys, I've been taken care of.

Unless you are on +2k a day, you could fly there a day earlier via PE and have a paid rest day to restore your decision making capabilities. Don’t get me wrong business is great but I think companies only keep paying because there would be uproar if it were stopped. Senior execs aside on very big money I don’t think there is a business case for business class. I know I’m my company the culture would be that if business class were stopped it would stop at all levels so the execs make sure it stays policy.

[InitialDave]

Why 2k a day? It doesn't cost me that much over premium economy, due to how I book my flights and doing so in advance.

Same way I could save a small amount of money by not going direct. But I prefer going direct, so I do if I can.

[Puggit]

GT03ROB said:

I also like BA (). By & large BA crews are human, where the ME3 crews are robots. ME3 service may be "better" but it lacks personality. I cannot stand transferring, I want to get on a flight & get off at my destination. With BA by & large out of London I can do that. Most importantly to me is that when the st has really hit the fan on a journeys, I've been taken care of.

But you are a gold card holder, used to sitting up front. As a silver card holder, earned flying economy short haul, I'm used to being invisible. The only sign the crew on board have to tell them that I'm different is that I board early and sit in an exit seat. Sometimes that gets me a little extra service, most of the time it doesn't. And we know how BA treats economy short haul passengers (mooo!).

[GT03ROB]

Jag_NE said:

Unless you are on +2k a day, you could fly there a day earlier via PE and have a paid rest day to restore your decision making capabilities. Don’t get me wrong business is great but I think companies only keep paying because there would be uproar if it were stopped. Senior execs aside on very big money I don’t think there is a business case for business class. I know I’m my company the culture would be that if business class were stopped it would stop at all levels so the execs make sure it stays policy.

It's a fair point & no doubt depends on the business & frequency of travel. Somebody who does 2 LH trips a year is one thing & giving them a couple of paid days off for travelling economy is one thing. Somebody doing 2 LHs a month is different. I worked at one place & the rules were economy unless you were a "frequent" traveler.

It becomes a trade off also. We had a recent project where the client operated a strict economy only policy. It was a nightmare trying to get people to travel. Wanted somebody to go to Manila for a week? Impossible. They wouldn't travel in their own time as client wouldn't pay overtime for it. So they would only depart Monday, arrive Manila Tuesday morning fooked, Wednesday still recovering, work Thursday, fly back Friday. So 1 effective days work for a weeks travel. I went to Singapore ...arrived in the morning...meetings in the fabricators during day...dinner with them in the evening...late night flight back to London, arriving early morning. All economy. Effectively 2 nights without sleep. I took the rest of the week (3days) off.

[GT03ROB]

Puggit said:

GT03ROB said:

I also like BA (). By & large BA crews are human, where the ME3 crews are robots. ME3 service may be "better" but it lacks personality. I cannot stand transferring, I want to get on a flight & get off at my destination. With BA by & large out of London I can do that. Most importantly to me is that when the st has really hit the fan on a journeys, I've been taken care of.

But you are a gold card holder, used to sitting up front. As a silver card holder, earned flying economy short haul, I'm used to being invisible. The only sign the crew on board have to tell them that I'm different is that I board early and sit in an exit seat. Sometimes that gets me a little extra service, most of the time it doesn't. And we know how BA treats economy short haul passengers (mooo!).

In the middle actually!

BA serves most of the destinations I've used non-stop from London so I can get the frequent flyer card. I'm not convinced it makes a huge difference to be honest, but it does no harm.
I was in Saudi so my choices were Saudia into Damman; Gulf Air or BA into Bahrain; I'm not messing around with any of the ME3 changing planes in Doha/Abu Dhabi/Dubai to get to Bahrain.
In Kuwait it was either BA straight in or Kuwait Airways (even the Kuwaitis didn't fly Kuwait). ME3 option was virtually doubling the journey time.
My leisure travel is within Europe or transatlantic predominantly.

My current work travel pattern is not served by any of the ME3 or any European airlines other than my final hop from AMS to London. I'll use BA for this as it gives me lounge access. Funnily enough on the 4 1/2 flight from AMS there is business & economy. There is not a huge difference between the 2 as most of the time I get the middle seat free, get fed & watered so it's actually like BA Club Europe.

[Jag_NE]

GT03ROB said:

Jag_NE said:

Unless you are on +2k a day, you could fly there a day earlier via PE and have a paid rest day to restore your decision making capabilities. Don’t get me wrong business is great but I think companies only keep paying because there would be uproar if it were stopped. Senior execs aside on very big money I don’t think there is a business case for business class. I know I’m my company the culture would be that if business class were stopped it would stop at all levels so the execs make sure it stays policy.

It's a fair point & no doubt depends on the business & frequency of travel. Somebody who does 2 LH trips a year is one thing & giving them a couple of paid days off for travelling economy is one thing. Somebody doing 2 LHs a month is different. I worked at one place & the rules were economy unless you were a "frequent" traveler.

It becomes a trade off also. We had a recent project where the client operated a strict economy only policy. It was a nightmare trying to get people to travel. Wanted somebody to go to Manila for a week? Impossible. They wouldn't travel in their own time as client wouldn't pay overtime for it. So they would only depart Monday, arrive Manila Tuesday morning fooked, Wednesday still recovering, work Thursday, fly back Friday. So 1 effective days work for a weeks travel. I went to Singapore ...arrived in the morning...meetings in the fabricators during day...dinner with them in the evening...late night flight back to London, arriving early morning. All economy. Effectively 2 nights without sleep. I took the rest of the week (3days) off.

That’s a fair point, people are far more willing to travel, especially over weekends if they get looked after with a comfy flight.

[Jag_NE]

InitialDave said:

Why 2k a day? It doesn't cost me that much over premium economy, due to how I book my flights and doing so in advance.

Same way I could save a small amount of money by not going direct. But I prefer going direct, so I do if I can.

My travel is usually relatively short notice and I find business usually carries a premium in the thousands. Granted, YMMV depending on when booked/how you do it etc. Even at 1k a day assumption that’s someone on 250k a year so sending them economy and giving them a free rest day still makes sense. As said above though I agree that business as an incentive in itself means folk will likely be far more flexible with travel.

[Harvey Mushman00]

85Carrera said:

Premium economy is for mugs. If you can’t afford business, just go economy (or, preferably, don’t go).

What an utterly ridiculous statement, so if someone considers the extra room, double baggage allowance, priority boarding is worth it, and business or first is simply not an option because they cannot afford it, you consider them mugs, well I think that makes you a c0ck...……..of the highest order...…...

[Leonard Stanley]

Ok, flew BA PE to JFK and back 10 days ago. Daytime flight out - fine, no issues. Night flight back (the 23:00) - not ideal, entire plane stank of urine + carpet on boarding but the smell faded (a bit). It was bearable - chuffing knackered the next day though.