buying farmland to extend our garden and build a garage
Discussion
Evening all,
I am going to speak to the local farmer about buying a chunk of his field so I can extend my garden and build a garage on the land.
The farmer told me he agrees in principle and has recently sold some land for garden use for £20sq/m. I am going to try and get him round to the house to talk it through this weekend but I want to see if his prices are right and if there is anything I should look out for as part of this process? £20 sq/m seems a little expensive as this chunk (1,780 sq/m) would cost £35,000. Am I right in thinking an acre was about 10k? Happy to be told otherwise, this is new to me.
The land is in North East Scotland and is currently used as arable land. The land will only be used for a garage and garden, we will not extend our house onto it or build another house on it so do not mind if there are restrictive covenants imposed to that effect.
A snip of the land from google earth is shown below:
I am going to speak to the local farmer about buying a chunk of his field so I can extend my garden and build a garage on the land.
The farmer told me he agrees in principle and has recently sold some land for garden use for £20sq/m. I am going to try and get him round to the house to talk it through this weekend but I want to see if his prices are right and if there is anything I should look out for as part of this process? £20 sq/m seems a little expensive as this chunk (1,780 sq/m) would cost £35,000. Am I right in thinking an acre was about 10k? Happy to be told otherwise, this is new to me.
The land is in North East Scotland and is currently used as arable land. The land will only be used for a garage and garden, we will not extend our house onto it or build another house on it so do not mind if there are restrictive covenants imposed to that effect.
A snip of the land from google earth is shown below:
Edited by danrc on Thursday 27th February 13:57
Often not allowed to turn farmland or fields into gardens due to planning restrictions. They don’t like suburbs ‘creeping’ into the countryside and the like.
I almost bought a house with the plan to do the same once upon a time but previous owner had looked into it and was categorically told no numerous times. Without it the actual garden was tiny so we didn’t proceed.
And the field was already theirs on this particular house so in theory it was easy.
Look into it first with planners. I bet they’ll say no at least initially. You can buy it but probably won’t be able to extend garden into it and take down dividing fences and the like.
I almost bought a house with the plan to do the same once upon a time but previous owner had looked into it and was categorically told no numerous times. Without it the actual garden was tiny so we didn’t proceed.
And the field was already theirs on this particular house so in theory it was easy.
Look into it first with planners. I bet they’ll say no at least initially. You can buy it but probably won’t be able to extend garden into it and take down dividing fences and the like.
p1stonhead said:
Often not allowed to turn farmland or fields into gardens due to planning restrictions. They don’t like suburbs ‘creeping’ into the countryside and the like.
I almost bought a house with the plan to do the same once upon a time but previous owner had looked into it and was categorically told no numerous times. Without it the actual garden was tiny so we didn’t proceed.
And the field was already theirs on this particular house so in theory it was easy.
Look into it first with planners. I bet they’ll say no at least initially. You can buy it but probably won’t be able to extend garden into it and take down dividing fences and the like.
I am taking heart from the fact he recently sold some farmland for garden use recently so hopefully, there is precedent. I know each case is different but I can hope. Our garden is actually a decent size already, we have a big drive and forest walks on the doorstep but I do not want to build a garage on the current plot (even though we have planning permission) as it will close the view from our kitchen and potentially block light to the neighbour's house. I almost bought a house with the plan to do the same once upon a time but previous owner had looked into it and was categorically told no numerous times. Without it the actual garden was tiny so we didn’t proceed.
And the field was already theirs on this particular house so in theory it was easy.
Look into it first with planners. I bet they’ll say no at least initially. You can buy it but probably won’t be able to extend garden into it and take down dividing fences and the like.
barryrs said:
Has the land use on the other parcel actually been changed or are they simply using as an extension of the garden?
To build the garage you will also need a change of use so if you agree terms it might be worth applying a “subject to approval” clause.
I've no idea I'm afraid, hopefully find out more this weekend. Thanks for the advice on the clause. To build the garage you will also need a change of use so if you agree terms it might be worth applying a “subject to approval” clause.
danrc said:
The Moose said:
An acre will be as much or as little as he will sell it for and you will buy it for!
He has to look at the lost income from that corner of land also.
Yep , totally agree and understand thisHe has to look at the lost income from that corner of land also.
tty, boggy, fallow corner of a field because of the way the interested party approached them. It's exactly that, the price is the price. The interested parties needed and coveted that land much more than the farmer needed the money or needed the land. The farmers can be shrewd motherfkers and I feel people from other walks of life underestimate them too readily. But it looks a nice little corner for you so good luck, hope it goes well for you.
The fact you have a farmer neighbour willing to sell is your first win. If you dont buy it now he may loose interest and it will never happen.
You are right 10k per acre is a guide on land but as has been said that's when your buying a 10 acre field for mowing/grazing not extending a garden. If someone asked me or 1/3rd of an acre to extend a garden, *if I wanted to sell* and they offered 3k we would be finished very quickly. I know locally of a 4m long by 1m wide strip being sold for more than 5k as it extended a garden to give a path down the side of the house. Personally think the guy was soft and could have asked for more. Land is hard to replace for farmers as so much gets land banked by developers or held onto in the hope of getting planning one day.
You are right 10k per acre is a guide on land but as has been said that's when your buying a 10 acre field for mowing/grazing not extending a garden. If someone asked me or 1/3rd of an acre to extend a garden, *if I wanted to sell* and they offered 3k we would be finished very quickly. I know locally of a 4m long by 1m wide strip being sold for more than 5k as it extended a garden to give a path down the side of the house. Personally think the guy was soft and could have asked for more. Land is hard to replace for farmers as so much gets land banked by developers or held onto in the hope of getting planning one day.
Our neighbors agreed to buy a small chunk from a local farmer, just enough to park 4 cars on, cut into his field along-side a road.
General thought was that the farmer would get 50% of the uplift in property value, due to it having private off-road parking. Settled on 15k.
On closing day, farmer upped the price to 20k, because he knew the neighbors were already a few k into the planning etc and there was no contract already in place that set the price in stone.
General thought was that the farmer would get 50% of the uplift in property value, due to it having private off-road parking. Settled on 15k.
On closing day, farmer upped the price to 20k, because he knew the neighbors were already a few k into the planning etc and there was no contract already in place that set the price in stone.
oilydan said:
Our neighbors agreed to buy a small chunk from a local farmer, just enough to park 4 cars on, cut into his field along-side a road.
General thought was that the farmer would get 50% of the uplift in property value, due to it having private off-road parking. Settled on 15k.
On closing day, farmer upped the price to 20k, because he knew the neighbors were already a few k into the planning etc and there was no contract already in place that set the price in stone.
Cheeky!General thought was that the farmer would get 50% of the uplift in property value, due to it having private off-road parking. Settled on 15k.
On closing day, farmer upped the price to 20k, because he knew the neighbors were already a few k into the planning etc and there was no contract already in place that set the price in stone.
To do so legally would require Planning which you would be extremely unlikely to get
Around here (Midlands) it's common for the Council to force people to remove plants, flowers etc and reinstate hedges when they have extended their gardens into fields
A neighbour bought an adjoining field and simply mowed it weekly - the Council objected but IIRC couldn't find a way to actually stop him.
Around here (Midlands) it's common for the Council to force people to remove plants, flowers etc and reinstate hedges when they have extended their gardens into fields
A neighbour bought an adjoining field and simply mowed it weekly - the Council objected but IIRC couldn't find a way to actually stop him.
Depending on your property, remember that while £35k is a lot for that bit of land, will it add a similar amount of value to your property?
As others have said, with this kind of land sale, there is no guideline value, it's literally whatever it's worth to you and him. If you don't think it's worth £35k, tell him what you think it's worth to you and see if he'll sell for that, but be prepared that you may not be offered another shot at it.
With regards to planning, depending on your LA, I'd say it's unlikely they'd let you use it to officially convert to curtilage with a garage, also even prompting the conversation with them will put you on the radar.
Two alternative options:
1) Just do it, assuming the farmer won't dob you in and you haven't got neighbours who'd take offence to it, if it's a remote plot, the council may never know, and after 4 years you're virtually immune from any enforcement action. Still a risk though.
2) You could get the farmer to agree for you to build a barn-shaped garage on it now, if it's part of a much larger parcel of land where permitted development rights for an agricultural building would apply. Obviously you'd need some legal option to exercise otherwise you'd be at risk of him deciding to not sell it to you after. Once sold and split off from the main land, just use it to store "agricultural/gardening tools" alongside your car. Technically the use still wouldn't be lawful, and the "garden" would need to be more of a regularly mowed field/orchard rather than anything particularly domestic.
As others have said, with this kind of land sale, there is no guideline value, it's literally whatever it's worth to you and him. If you don't think it's worth £35k, tell him what you think it's worth to you and see if he'll sell for that, but be prepared that you may not be offered another shot at it.
With regards to planning, depending on your LA, I'd say it's unlikely they'd let you use it to officially convert to curtilage with a garage, also even prompting the conversation with them will put you on the radar.
Two alternative options:
1) Just do it, assuming the farmer won't dob you in and you haven't got neighbours who'd take offence to it, if it's a remote plot, the council may never know, and after 4 years you're virtually immune from any enforcement action. Still a risk though.
2) You could get the farmer to agree for you to build a barn-shaped garage on it now, if it's part of a much larger parcel of land where permitted development rights for an agricultural building would apply. Obviously you'd need some legal option to exercise otherwise you'd be at risk of him deciding to not sell it to you after. Once sold and split off from the main land, just use it to store "agricultural/gardening tools" alongside your car. Technically the use still wouldn't be lawful, and the "garden" would need to be more of a regularly mowed field/orchard rather than anything particularly domestic.
Just to put a real world perspective on some of this. My brother in law did exactly what you are proposing. He purchased a small piece of land, from a farmer, at the end of his garden. I would say about half the size of yours. The farmer asked £16k, would not budge, so they paid. It's often a case of take it or leave it, they have very little time or inclination for negotiation. Anyway, fast forward a year or two and they had turned it into a garden, climbing frame, shed, grass, seats etc and no one could have cared less, especially the council, who I don't think would have known. When they came to sell however this is when it did become a problem. The solicitors picked it up as still being farmland and as such he had to apply for change of use. Guess what? Not a single issue. Could have been the size, location or time, but they didn't bat an eyelid, he paid the fees and it changed. This was all in Somerset.
the farmer did put a covenant on it though about building on it in the future.
the farmer did put a covenant on it though about building on it in the future.
I'm not sure telling the farmer what you think it's worth is the right way of going about it!
That's why the farmers I know rejected the offers outright. They get it all the time and people seem to think that you can treat them like you do the car salesman, where if you don't get what you want there's always another way or a counter price and they want to sell you the car more than you want to buy the car. There's you and there's the farmer. There's no gang of farmers waiting in the wings to sell you another field for less.
Remember pissing off the farmer can fk up the chances of the next occupier when they inevitably try the same and, even if you cant agree something at this time, the knowledge that there may be potential can be banked for future consideration should the field ever become more valuable to you.
I saw a house go at auction way under market value because of some kind of access and right of way problem that was never going to be resolved because the homeowner and the landowner could not come to an agreement.
As others have said, covenants. As we all know so many people buy a three bedder and extend it to within an inch of the boundary, or buy a commercial or agricultural plot and go for converting to resi. Some pop a temporary building up, masquerading as a worker's house and within a few years it's suddenly a mansion. The farmers know this. They may let you have the field but they're often wary that people are not always honest about their intentions so it's worth checking the detail of any covenants that they want so that it doesn't cause you complications in future.
That's why the farmers I know rejected the offers outright. They get it all the time and people seem to think that you can treat them like you do the car salesman, where if you don't get what you want there's always another way or a counter price and they want to sell you the car more than you want to buy the car. There's you and there's the farmer. There's no gang of farmers waiting in the wings to sell you another field for less.
Remember pissing off the farmer can f
k up the chances of the next occupier when they inevitably try the same and, even if you cant agree something at this time, the knowledge that there may be potential can be banked for future consideration should the field ever become more valuable to you.I saw a house go at auction way under market value because of some kind of access and right of way problem that was never going to be resolved because the homeowner and the landowner could not come to an agreement.
As others have said, covenants. As we all know so many people buy a three bedder and extend it to within an inch of the boundary, or buy a commercial or agricultural plot and go for converting to resi. Some pop a temporary building up, masquerading as a worker's house and within a few years it's suddenly a mansion. The farmers know this. They may let you have the field but they're often wary that people are not always honest about their intentions so it's worth checking the detail of any covenants that they want so that it doesn't cause you complications in future.
My tip, pay whatever the landowner asks. Act quickly and stick to your word on everything. These guys don't negotiate, they hold all the power and are as likely to to tell you to forget about it and hold a grudge for ever.
I'm in Scotland and the legal / mapping / title fees for buying a piece of land for me last year were about a grand.
Also, I work for a farming company. They are approached virtuallly every month from different people wanting to buy small bits of land. Nothing is for sale, no matter the offer. They just don't need the hassle or the cash. I know a few other farmers socially, and they see selling land as a sign of failure. Strange breed these guys!
I'm in Scotland and the legal / mapping / title fees for buying a piece of land for me last year were about a grand.
Also, I work for a farming company. They are approached virtuallly every month from different people wanting to buy small bits of land. Nothing is for sale, no matter the offer. They just don't need the hassle or the cash. I know a few other farmers socially, and they see selling land as a sign of failure. Strange breed these guys!
Is it worth a chat with the local Duty Planning Officer at this time and before you pay out?
He / She can tell you what chance you may have.
Turning Agricultural land into a garden area can be difficult as others have said.
They don't like buildings on agricultural land unless it is related in some way to the classification i.e a tool shed. or stables.
As already said, they don't want to see development of pretty much any type other than related use.
He / She can tell you what chance you may have.
Turning Agricultural land into a garden area can be difficult as others have said.
They don't like buildings on agricultural land unless it is related in some way to the classification i.e a tool shed. or stables.
As already said, they don't want to see development of pretty much any type other than related use.
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