Summer Holidays 2021
Discussion
Maximus_Meridius101 said:
No, but the consequences for everyone in this country, because some entitled type(s) brings a variant, about which we know little, into this country, could be dire. There’s a reason for current travel restrictions. If some selfish people decide to do as they like, whilst the situation is still on the knife edge that it is, they risk jeopardising everything that the majority of people have achieved, by sacrificing a few things, for ( what is ultimately) a short period of time, in the grand scheme of things. This virus is an absolute b
d, that’s all there is to it, like it or like it not.
What absolute scaremongering rubbish. The virus has only ever killed 0.2% of the population with an average age of over 80 years. Flu kills between 0.1%-0.15% of the population each year with a similar age profile. Whereas the impact of lockdowns, which includes it being illegal to travel, are massive. Check out the excess death rates for people dying at home presently and the impact of 100,000’s of late or missed cancer diagnosis etc. Never mind the economic and mental costs! This virus ‘has been made out to be’ an absolute bd, that’s all there is to it, like it or like it not.d, that’s all there is to it, like it or like it not.Phil. said:
Maximus_Meridius101 said:
No, but the consequences for everyone in this country, because some entitled type(s) brings a variant, about which we know little, into this country, could be dire. There’s a reason for current travel restrictions. If some selfish people decide to do as they like, whilst the situation is still on the knife edge that it is, they risk jeopardising everything that the majority of people have achieved, by sacrificing a few things, for ( what is ultimately) a short period of time, in the grand scheme of things. This virus is an absolute bd, that’s all there is to it, like it or like it not.
What absolute scaremongering rubbish. The virus has only ever killed 0.2% of the population with an average age of over 80 years. Flu kills between 0.1%-0.15% of the population each year with a similar age profile. Whereas the impact of lockdowns, which includes it being illegal to travel, are massive. Check out the excess death rates for people dying at home presently and the impact of 100,000’s of late or missed cancer diagnosis etc. Never mind the economic and mental costs! This virus ‘has been made out to be’ an absolute bd, that’s all there is to it, like it or like it not.d, that’s all there is to it, like it or like it not.And its the numbers that get bandied about with these "scary new" variants.
Scary headline - "Potentially 30% more fatal" =
Reality - fatality rate for unvaccinated people at risk potentially goes up from 1% to 1.3%.
Best lock everyone up again just in case.
Phil. said:
What absolute scaremongering rubbish. The virus has only ever killed 0.2% of the population with an average age of over 80 years. Flu kills between 0.1%-0.15% of the population each year with a similar age profile. Whereas the impact of lockdowns, which includes it being illegal to travel, are massive. Check out the excess death rates for people dying at home presently and the impact of 100,000’s of late or missed cancer diagnosis etc. Never mind the economic and mental costs! This virus ‘has been made out to be’ an absolute bd, that’s all there is to it, like it or like it not.
Whilst the scaremongering is a stupid things by the press. The death rate is lower because of the lockdowns/extra bed spaces given over to the illness. If the NHS were overwhelmed then many more thousands would probably die. And with regards to the flu comment, remember these deaths and in addition, not instead. Its bit like saying you have more chance of being run over. Maybe, but that is im addition to catching flu, covid, ot whatever, why add more risk. Finally sating it's only old people is frankly shocking. Even if it were, which it isn't, they are someone's parents or grandparents. I am not a fan of lockdowns by any means, but I do believe they are the right thing, even if only for a limited time.d, that’s all there is to it, like it or like it not.Road2Ruin said:
Phil. said:
What absolute scaremongering rubbish. The virus has only ever killed 0.2% of the population with an average age of over 80 years. Flu kills between 0.1%-0.15% of the population each year with a similar age profile. Whereas the impact of lockdowns, which includes it being illegal to travel, are massive. Check out the excess death rates for people dying at home presently and the impact of 100,000’s of late or missed cancer diagnosis etc. Never mind the economic and mental costs! This virus ‘has been made out to be’ an absolute bd, that’s all there is to it, like it or like it not.
Whilst the scaremongering is a stupid things by the press. The death rate is lower because of the lockdowns/extra bed spaces given over to the illness. If the NHS were overwhelmed then many more thousands would probably die. And with regards to the flu comment, remember these deaths and in addition, not instead. Its bit like saying you have more chance of being run over. Maybe, but that is im addition to catching flu, covid, ot whatever, why add more risk. Finally sating it's only old people is frankly shocking. Even if it were, which it isn't, they are someone's parents or grandparents. I am not a fan of lockdowns by any means, but I do believe they are the right thing, even if only for a limited time.d, that’s all there is to it, like it or like it not.Phil. said:
Road2Ruin said:
Phil. said:
What absolute scaremongering rubbish. The virus has only ever killed 0.2% of the population with an average age of over 80 years. Flu kills between 0.1%-0.15% of the population each year with a similar age profile. Whereas the impact of lockdowns, which includes it being illegal to travel, are massive. Check out the excess death rates for people dying at home presently and the impact of 100,000’s of late or missed cancer diagnosis etc. Never mind the economic and mental costs! This virus ‘has been made out to be’ an absolute bd, that’s all there is to it, like it or like it not.
Whilst the scaremongering is a stupid things by the press. The death rate is lower because of the lockdowns/extra bed spaces given over to the illness. If the NHS were overwhelmed then many more thousands would probably die. And with regards to the flu comment, remember these deaths and in addition, not instead. Its bit like saying you have more chance of being run over. Maybe, but that is im addition to catching flu, covid, ot whatever, why add more risk. Finally sating it's only old people is frankly shocking. Even if it were, which it isn't, they are someone's parents or grandparents. I am not a fan of lockdowns by any means, but I do believe they are the right thing, even if only for a limited time.d, that’s all there is to it, like it or like it not.
Phil. said:
Everything I stated is factually correct. If you don’t like it then that’s because you don’t want to face reality. I want to travel and it’s illegal to do so because of the scaremongering hype that has been sold to us by this manipulating lying government. Again, all facts.
Have a look at what is happening in Brazil if you want to see what an unchecked virus looks like.vaud said:
Have a look at what is happening in Brazil if you want to see what an unchecked virus looks like.
It’s an interesting case. Being in the Southern Hemisphere it’s flu seasonality is different to what the UK is experiencing now meaning it’s increasing but its neighbours are showing similar (but slightly lower) death trends. Brazil’s obesity rates appear significant but no higher than the UK. However, poverty and the density of the population in their cities will be a consideration. I don’t understand the reported deaths in infants but at 1300 to date is this statistically significant and are they being reported accurately? It’s certainly not a country I would want to visit on holiday just now. I’d be really interested to know why/how you think a lockdown in Brazil would impact the virus and whether practically it could be implemented without killing even more people through increased poverty.
Phil. said:
It’s an interesting case. Being in the Southern Hemisphere it’s flu seasonality is different to what the UK is experiencing now meaning it’s increasing but its neighbours are showing similar (but slightly lower) death trends. Brazil’s obesity rates appear significant but no higher than the UK. However, poverty and the density of the population in their cities will be a consideration. I don’t understand the reported deaths in infants but at 1300 to date is this statistically significant and are they being reported accurately? It’s certainly not a country I would want to visit on holiday just now.
I’d be really interested to know why/how you think a lockdown in Brazil would impact the virus and whether practically it could be implemented without killing even more people through increased poverty.
I don't think a full lockdown would be practical in Brazil and I understand Bolsonaro's motivation that keeping the economy open was important; I would take the view that they could have brought in more controls to reduce the effect, while also not being one of the last to order vaccines. I’d be really interested to know why/how you think a lockdown in Brazil would impact the virus and whether practically it could be implemented without killing even more people through increased poverty.
Bolsonaro seems to be bit of a sociopath, he could have taken a different line than "its a bit of flu, stop moaning"
But we are off topic from holidays in 2021, unless we are planning on a trip to Brazil (which in safer times I would recommend)
GT03ROB said:
it's still looking far from clear, so I'll play summer by ear, but currently looking at booking a place for a few months over the winter, sort of mid -Nov to Mid Feb
As things still seem far from clear .... decided to do just this...Nov/Dec/Jan/mid-Feb place booked.... so hopefully things will be clearer by then. Destination currently lets Brits in, so that end should be fine at least! Phil. said:
vaud said:
Have a look at what is happening in Brazil if you want to see what an unchecked virus looks like.
It’s an interesting case. Being in the Southern Hemisphere it’s flu seasonality is different to what the UK is experiencing now meaning it’s increasing but its neighbours are showing similar (but slightly lower) death trends. Brazil’s obesity rates appear significant but no higher than the UK. However, poverty and the density of the population in their cities will be a consideration. I don’t understand the reported deaths in infants but at 1300 to date is this statistically significant and are they being reported accurately? It’s certainly not a country I would want to visit on holiday just now. I’d be really interested to know why/how you think a lockdown in Brazil would impact the virus and whether practically it could be implemented without killing even more people through increased poverty.
"I want to travel" you say. Tough s
t. I want to live. Millions of people vulnerable to this disease likewise. Guess which one is going to take precedence?ElectricSoup said:
It's not the flu, it doesn't have a "season". One of those "facts" you're so keen on.
"I want to travel" you say. Tough st. I want to live. Millions of people vulnerable to this disease likewise. Guess which one is going to take precedence?
If you're so fundamentally against travelling, why are you in this thread? "I want to travel" you say. Tough s
t. I want to live. Millions of people vulnerable to this disease likewise. Guess which one is going to take precedence?The millions of people vulnerable to this disease have been vaccinated at great cost to the entire nation including financially, emotionally, and socially - is this not enough for you?
What you see as living isn't what other people see as living. Huge changes have been made over the last 12 months or so to protect the vulnerable but I have to ask, what is an acceptable end-point for you? No travel ever?
Please also keep in mind that travel does not always equal holidays. Many people have family and loved ones abroad, likewise there are international workers, specialist medical treatments etc.
If COVID has been good for one thing, it's removing all traces of empathy from people.
Edit to add:
Most sources agree that there is an element of seasonality with COVID, but different agreements as to what extent transmission is effected, data is too limited at this point.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
https://ccdd.hsph.harvard.edu/will-covid-19-go-awa...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC78923...
Edited by Pete102 on Monday 19th April 11:29
Pete102 said:
ElectricSoup said:
It's not the flu, it doesn't have a "season". One of those "facts" you're so keen on.
"I want to travel" you say. Tough st. I want to live. Millions of people vulnerable to this disease likewise. Guess which one is going to take precedence?
If you're so fundamentally against travelling, why are you in this thread? "I want to travel" you say. Tough s
t. I want to live. Millions of people vulnerable to this disease likewise. Guess which one is going to take precedence?The millions of people vulnerable to this disease have been vaccinated at great cost to the entire nation including financially, emotionally, and socially - is this not enough for you?
What you see as living isn't what other people see as living. Huge changes have been made over the last 12 months or so to protect the vulnerable but I have to ask, what is an acceptable end-point for you? No travel ever?
Please also keep in mind that travel does not always equal holidays. Many people have family and loved ones abroad, likewise there are international workers, specialist medical treatments etc.
If COVID has been good for one thing, it's removing all traces of empathy from people.
Also, this is a "Holiday" thread specifically. Not an "international workers, specialist medical treatments etc" thread. Holidays are things we like to do, not things we need to do.
Edited by ElectricSoup on Monday 19th April 11:34
Edited by ElectricSoup on Monday 19th April 11:34
Pete102 said:
ElectricSoup said:
It's not the flu, it doesn't have a "season". One of those "facts" you're so keen on.
"I want to travel" you say. Tough st. I want to live. Millions of people vulnerable to this disease likewise. Guess which one is going to take precedence?
If you're so fundamentally against travelling, why are you in this thread? "I want to travel" you say. Tough s
t. I want to live. Millions of people vulnerable to this disease likewise. Guess which one is going to take precedence?The millions of people vulnerable to this disease have been vaccinated at great cost to the entire nation including financially, emotionally, and socially - is this not enough for you?
What you see as living isn't what other people see as living. Huge changes have been made over the last 12 months or so to protect the vulnerable but I have to ask, what is an acceptable end-point for you? No travel ever?
Please also keep in mind that travel does not always equal holidays. Many people have family and loved ones abroad, likewise there are international workers, specialist medical treatments etc.
If COVID has been good for one thing, it's removing all traces of empathy from people.
Edit to add:
Most sources agree that there is an element of seasonality with COVID, but different agreements as to what extent transmission is effected, data is too limited at this point.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
https://ccdd.hsph.harvard.edu/will-covid-19-go-awa...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC78923...
Edited by Pete102 on Monday 19th April 11:29
ElectricSoup said:
It's not the flu, it doesn't have a "season". One of those "facts" you're so keen on.
"I want to travel" you say. Tough st. I want to live. Millions of people vulnerable to this disease likewise. Guess which one is going to take precedence?
Covid is as seasonal as flu, which is commonly called seasonal."I want to travel" you say. Tough s
t. I want to live. Millions of people vulnerable to this disease likewise. Guess which one is going to take precedence?I assume your referring to the 0.2% of the population who die from Covid with an average age of over 80 years. That’s a good enough reason is it to lock people up, prevent them from travelling, create millions of new non-Covid deaths, and spend a fortune on PPE, track and trace apps etc. which could be much better spent improving the health of the nation, amongst other things? Get a grip.
Phil. said:
Covid is as seasonal as flu, which is commonly called seasonal.
I assume your referring to the 0.2% of the population who die from Covid with an average age of over 80 years. That’s a good enough reason is it to lock people up, prevent them from travelling, create millions of new non-Covid deaths, and spend a fortune on PPE, track and trace apps etc. which could be much better spent improving the health of the nation, amongst other things? Get a grip.
You don’t seem up to speed on the double mutated Indian virus which specifically impacts the young the most. I assume your referring to the 0.2% of the population who die from Covid with an average age of over 80 years. That’s a good enough reason is it to lock people up, prevent them from travelling, create millions of new non-Covid deaths, and spend a fortune on PPE, track and trace apps etc. which could be much better spent improving the health of the nation, amongst other things? Get a grip.
Have you been pestering the European countries currently in lockdown with soaring rates? Waste of money isn’t it don’t lock down open up as long as you are ok hey. / wanting your holibobs.
Now back to the Summer Holidays 2021
Welshbeef said:
You don’t seem up to speed on the double mutated Indian virus which specifically impacts the young the most.
Have you been pestering the European countries currently in lockdown with soaring rates? Waste of money isn’t it don’t lock down open up as long as you are ok hey. / wanting your holibobs.
Now back to the Summer Holidays 2021
The experts don't seem overly phased by it Have you been pestering the European countries currently in lockdown with soaring rates? Waste of money isn’t it don’t lock down open up as long as you are ok hey. / wanting your holibobs.
Now back to the Summer Holidays 2021
"Dr Jeffrey Barrett, director of the Covid-19 Genomics Initiative at the Wellcome Sanger Institute, said that the variant of the virus first identified in India should be "watched carefully" but it is "probably not at the top tier of mutations that generate the most concern."
He told BBC Radio 4's Today Programme that the first cases of the variant were identified late last year.
"This variant has a couple of mutations that are among those that we think are important that should be watched carefully, but they're actually probably not at the very kind of top tier of mutations, for example in the B117 - or Kent variant - or the South African variant, that generate the most concern.
"And in terms of spread, clearly this variant has increased in frequency in India around the same time as their very large and tragic recent wave,
"But I just don't think we know yet whether there's a cause and effect relationship - is this variant driving that spread? Or is it happening at the same time perhaps due to a coincidence?"
He added: "And one thing to note is that there were some sequences of this variant B1.617 seen late last year. And so in some sense, if it really is driving this wave, the fuse has been burning for quite a long time, which would make it look, probably less transmissible than B117."
Enjoy your holibobs in a wet tent in Devon!!
Welshbeef said:
You don’t seem up to speed on the double mutated Indian virus which specifically impacts the young the most.
Have you been pestering the European countries currently in lockdown with soaring rates? Waste of money isn’t it don’t lock down open up as long as you are ok hey. / wanting your holibobs.
Now back to the Summer Holidays 2021
The India stuff in the press at the moment is more scaremongering to give the government a continued excuse to stop people from travelling. Take a look at the average 7 day death rates in India by population, they have increased slightly recently but remain several factors below the UK’s! Time to open your eyes, this isn’t about a virus. Have you been pestering the European countries currently in lockdown with soaring rates? Waste of money isn’t it don’t lock down open up as long as you are ok hey. / wanting your holibobs.
Now back to the Summer Holidays 2021
Phil. said:
ElectricSoup said:
It's not the flu, it doesn't have a "season". One of those "facts" you're so keen on.
"I want to travel" you say. Tough st. I want to live. Millions of people vulnerable to this disease likewise. Guess which one is going to take precedence?
Covid is as seasonal as flu, which is commonly called seasonal."I want to travel" you say. Tough s
t. I want to live. Millions of people vulnerable to this disease likewise. Guess which one is going to take precedence?I assume your referring to the 0.2% of the population who die from Covid with an average age of over 80 years. That’s a good enough reason is it to lock people up, prevent them from travelling, create millions of new non-Covid deaths, and spend a fortune on PPE, track and trace apps etc. which could be much better spent improving the health of the nation, amongst other things? Get a grip.
Can you enlighten us as to which season it is in India currently? Is it Covid season? Must be, as a new wave is starting there. So I expect the weather in all of India at the moment is directly comparable to the season in the UK which you believe to be Covid season here, right? Or does the virus work to different seasons in different countries, once it's realised it's crossed an imaginary line on a map? I'll tell you what Covid season is. It's non-lockdown season in a country without general immunity developed through either a total closing of borders or a completed vaccination campaign.
Just becasue you want something to be true, doesn't make it so.
So seeing as you've missed all the other pertinent information about this disease and its effects, which has been blasted at you for over a year now, it's hardly going to get through yor skull now if I try again. So I'll leave you to your angry little existence.
I'm looking forward to my summer holiday. In 2022. If I get one before then I'll consider it a bonus, not a birthright.
Edited by ElectricSoup on Monday 19th April 14:05
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