Skiing first week of December?

[UTH]

//j17 said:

A lot of the tour operators won't bother starting that early - customer numbers don't start going up till the week before Christmas so it just doesn't make financial sense for them. For a similar reason not all the hotels, etc are open that early - there's a minimum number of front of house/bar/kitchen/waiting/cleaning staff you need to be paying just to open the doors and if you only manage to fill 1 room you're spending money to be open, rather than earining it by being open.

You might want to join SnowHeads.com and check out the PSB (Pre Season Bash) in the snowEvents forum. No details yet for 2021 but 2019 dates were 7/12-14/12 and 2020 was meant to have been 5/12-12/12, so expect something similar for 2021. There's no 'organised fun' so you can just use SH for the organisation/ransfers/accomodation booking, then do your own thing if you wish.

Ok good to know, thank you!

Going by this, would that mean the whole resort is a ghost town that early? And restaurants/bars up the mountain the same? Wondering if it would be a bit crap going that early then.....

[Richard-390a0]

We did the first week of December 2019 in Val d'isere & it was fantastic, loads of snow & we were pretty much the only Brits there. Most of the other piste users were instructors dialling their last minute training exercises before disappearing off to other resorts from looking at the places named on their jackets.

[UTH]

Richard-390a0 said:

We did the first week of December 2019 in Val d'isere & it was fantastic, loads of snow & we were pretty much the only Brits there. Most of the other piste users were instructors dialling their last minute training exercises before disappearing off to other resorts from looking at the places named on their jackets.

Part of that sounds great, but we don't want empty apres bars

[4Q]

UTH said:

//j17 said:

A lot of the tour operators won't bother starting that early - customer numbers don't start going up till the week before Christmas so it just doesn't make financial sense for them. For a similar reason not all the hotels, etc are open that early - there's a minimum number of front of house/bar/kitchen/waiting/cleaning staff you need to be paying just to open the doors and if you only manage to fill 1 room you're spending money to be open, rather than earining it by being open.

You might want to join SnowHeads.com and check out the PSB (Pre Season Bash) in the snowEvents forum. No details yet for 2021 but 2019 dates were 7/12-14/12 and 2020 was meant to have been 5/12-12/12, so expect something similar for 2021. There's no 'organised fun' so you can just use SH for the organisation/ransfers/accomodation booking, then do your own thing if you wish.

Ok good to know, thank you!

Going by this, would that mean the whole resort is a ghost town that early? And restaurants/bars up the mountain the same? Wondering if it would be a bit crap going that early then.....

I’ve done the PSB a few times and everything is usually open when we go. If things close it’s generally due to too much snow. Amazing value too at around £600 half board in a nice hotel and ski passes included. I shall be booking again this year once the buttons are up.

[a311]

It can be hit and miss at that time of year, some areas can get a big dump and maintain others it can be quite mild and arses nipping until later in December.

To offer some alternative to the Frenchies as you mentioned St. Anton, Obergurgl opens in November, there's no glacier but it's high near by Solden does have a glacier and is easily reached. Cervina in Italy is also worth a look with access over to Zermatt.

[UTH]

a311 said:

It can be hit and miss at that time of year, some areas can get a big dump and maintain others it can be quite mild and arses nipping until later in December.

To offer some alternative to the Frenchies as you mentioned St. Anton, Obergurgl opens in November, there's no glacier but it's high near by Solden does have a glacier and is easily reached. Cervina in Italy is also worth a look with access over to Zermatt.

We originally wanted to look at St Anton but someone said the snow early Dec is crap (a friend who did a season there).....so we started looking at Val T, being the highest in Europe......

[//j17]

4Q said:

UTH said:

//j17 said:

A lot of the tour operators won't bother starting that early - customer numbers don't start going up till the week before Christmas so it just doesn't make financial sense for them. For a similar reason not all the hotels, etc are open that early - there's a minimum number of front of house/bar/kitchen/waiting/cleaning staff you need to be paying just to open the doors and if you only manage to fill 1 room you're spending money to be open, rather than earining it by being open.

You might want to join SnowHeads.com and check out the PSB (Pre Season Bash) in the snowEvents forum. No details yet for 2021 but 2019 dates were 7/12-14/12 and 2020 was meant to have been 5/12-12/12, so expect something similar for 2021. There's no 'organised fun' so you can just use SH for the organisation/ransfers/accomodation booking, then do your own thing if you wish.

Ok good to know, thank you!

Going by this, would that mean the whole resort is a ghost town that early? And restaurants/bars up the mountain the same? Wondering if it would be a bit crap going that early then.....

I’ve done the PSB a few times and everything is usually open when we go. If things close it’s generally due to too much snow. Amazing value too at around £600 half board in a nice hotel and ski passes included. I shall be booking again this year once the buttons are up.

Based on 2019 the PSB seemed to be in one of the seasonaire warm-up/training weeks, where hotels and chalet companies are sorting out the wheat from the chaff of that year's recruits. This means a lot of hotels/chalets aren't open for paying guests, but all the bars/ most of the shops and restaurants are - often with good deals to get themselves on the "Excuse me Mr/Miss host, we've just arrived and want to go out for some beers/food. Where do you recommend?" list.

[Wiltshire Lad]

UTH said:

Ok good to know, thank you!

Going by this, would that mean the whole resort is a ghost town that early? And restaurants/bars up the mountain the same? Wondering if it would be a bit crap going that early then.....

First week in December - most resorts will be very quiet - only just started opening. Personally I would delay if you can - Early to mid Jan is a great time. As other posters have said - anytime before that - aim high - which rules out Austria unfortunately -some will argue and point to glacier skiing like Kaprun - don't bother - done them all (lived in Germany for 6 years) - not enough variety and often too crowded. Tignes is a good shout - best place I've skiied in France - and high. Personally prefer the 'vibe' in Austria - bars, restaurants (especially on the mountain) and service so much better imo. Good hunting.

[UTH]

Wiltshire Lad said:

First week in December - most resorts will be very quiet - only just started opening. Personally I would delay if you can - Early to mid Jan is a great time. As other posters have said - anytime before that - aim high - which rules out Austria unfortunately -some will argue and point to glacier skiing like Kaprun - don't bother - done them all (lived in Germany for 6 years) - not enough variety and often too crowded. Tignes is a good shout - best place I've skiied in France - and high. Personally prefer the 'vibe' in Austria - bars, restaurants (especially on the mountain) and service so much better imo. Good hunting.

Thanks for the advice, sounds like Val T is the right decision being the highest.
We're planning on going again next April as we love the fair weather skiing, but we want to go this year as well, hence December being the only option really.

[brickwall]

UTH said:

I'm currently looking at options for the first week in Dec in Val Thorens and the only place that seems to be available to book is Club Med?! (Not that I'm ruling that out, I do love Club Med)

Crystal Ski, Inghams etc simply not giving the first week Dec as an option. Am I being dumb, or is everything either fully booked or just not offering anything that early in the season? Bit confused.

If it’s Varsity Trip week then it’s eminently possible the major operators (Pierre et Vacances etc.) will be holding whole blocks for that trip.

[UTH]

brickwall said:

UTH said:

I'm currently looking at options for the first week in Dec in Val Thorens and the only place that seems to be available to book is Club Med?! (Not that I'm ruling that out, I do love Club Med)

Crystal Ski, Inghams etc simply not giving the first week Dec as an option. Am I being dumb, or is everything either fully booked or just not offering anything that early in the season? Bit confused.

If it’s Varsity Trip week then it’s eminently possible the major operators (Pierre et Vacances etc.) will be holding whole blocks for that trip.

I think they're going to Tignes this year.....

[//j17]

Wiltshire Lad said:

As other posters have said - anytime before that - aim high - which rules out Austria unfortunately

Yep, Austria is too low for early season skiing, which is why resorts like Ischgl (planned 25/11/21), St Anton (no published date but prob. 27/11/21 based on history), Saalbach (planned 27/11/21), etc usually don't open until...November.

The alpine weather patterns generally mean the snow line falls the further east you go, so while yes you do need to go high to find the snow in the western alps (France) you don't need to go as high in the central/eastern alps at the same time of year.

France doesn't have higher resorts because they are super cleaver and have realised something others have missed. No, France has higher resorts because they are in the western alps so NEED higher resorts!

[Wiltshire Lad]

//j17 said:

Wiltshire Lad said:

As other posters have said - anytime before that - aim high - which rules out Austria unfortunately

Yep, Austria is too low for early season skiing, which is why resorts like Ischgl (planned 25/11/21), St Anton (no published date but prob. 27/11/21 based on history), Saalbach (planned 27/11/21), etc usually don't open until...November.

The alpine weather patterns generally mean the snow line falls the further east you go, so while yes you do need to go high to find the snow in the western alps (France) you don't need to go as high in the central/eastern alps at the same time of year.

France doesn't have higher resorts because they are super cleaver and have realised something others have missed. No, France has higher resorts because they are in the western alps so NEED higher resorts!

I’m just speaking from years of experience- when the resorts open is irrelevant- check out he historical snow record. There are always exceptions but December snow coverage in somewhere like Tignes is around 1m v around 35cm in a resort like St Anton. When I worked in Germany we usually ended up on the glaciers in December in Austria because snow on the usual slopes was just poor or non existent. There are always exceptions and if you can afford to book last minute then that’s fine - I prefer Austria over France if the snow is there.

[a311]

Wiltshire Lad said:

//j17 said:

Wiltshire Lad said:

As other posters have said - anytime before that - aim high - which rules out Austria unfortunately

Yep, Austria is too low for early season skiing, which is why resorts like Ischgl (planned 25/11/21), St Anton (no published date but prob. 27/11/21 based on history), Saalbach (planned 27/11/21), etc usually don't open until...November.

The alpine weather patterns generally mean the snow line falls the further east you go, so while yes you do need to go high to find the snow in the western alps (France) you don't need to go as high in the central/eastern alps at the same time of year.

France doesn't have higher resorts because they are super cleaver and have realised something others have missed. No, France has higher resorts because they are in the western alps so NEED higher resorts!

I’m just speaking from years of experience- when the resorts open is irrelevant- check out he historical snow record. There are always exceptions but December snow coverage in somewhere like Tignes is around 1m v around 35cm in a resort like St Anton. When I worked in Germany we usually ended up on the glaciers in December in Austria because snow on the usual slopes was just poor or non existent. There are always exceptions and if you can afford to book last minute then that’s fine - I prefer Austria over France if the snow is there.

It's an old and tired argument, coverage tends to be less of an issue in many on the Austrian resorts due to the nature it the ground i.e. less rocky and being further east the snowline drops. Austria easily has the most choice for early season skiing, plus a lot of the areas were towns and villages long before skiing came a long so they're down in the valley vs up a mountain a lot of the time so there's more non skiing stuff to do if required.

[timlongs]

UTH - I've sent you a PM.