Driving to/through France from UK right now

[stinkyspanner]

We were booked on the 06.15 Dover to Calais on Friday, and got to within 0.4 miles of the port by 04.20. We got through the passport control (and into a virtually empty dock) 4 hrs later and got on the 09.10 ferry.
We returned on Saturday on the 18.00 and there was no queue in Calais, and no queues in Dover (apart from freight) for those waiting to board.

[Shnozz]

gangzoom said:

We crossed numerous European borders in the last few weeks by car with no idea we even entered a new country till the cars speed limit display changes.

Regardless of anyones political idealogies, traveling into/out of the UK is now a hassel versus traveling anywhere else in Europe.

As a tourist it actually makes little difference for a few hours of delay versus none, but for the lorries and businesses the addtional time and effort needed now vs before must be paid back somewhere by someone?

Edited by gangzoom on Monday 25th July 05:49

Indeed, I can't see that can be disputed. It's added a layer of administration that we were free from before, and can often add a chunk of time, particularly with the well versed staffing issues at present.

An earlier poster mentioned 45 seconds to process per passenger. Even if you said 30 seconds, and say 3 flights to the UK in relative close proximity (which is often the case the route I fly), that is, say 450 passengers at 30 seconds to process each. Assume 2 border guards which is the normal at ALC, that can mean a queue of nearly 2 hours if you find yourself at the back. The general guidance is to allow an hour for the secondary passport queue. As per my example of my partner the other week, the issue then is if you are delayed, as that secondary area has few facilities and you can't then roam the airport.

As I say, for an annual or bi-annual holiday, not really an issue. For regular travellers its a big faff.

No political leaning in this, just it is what it is. We are a third country now and we must comply, as is of course the case in the other direction.

[Magooagain]

Shnozz said:

Indeed, I can't see that can be disputed. It's added a layer of administration that we were free from before, and can often add a chunk of time, particularly with the well versed staffing issues at present.

An earlier poster mentioned 45 seconds to process per passenger. Even if you said 30 seconds, and say 3 flights to the UK in relative close proximity (which is often the case the route I fly), that is, say 450 passengers at 30 seconds to process each. Assume 2 border guards which is the normal at ALC, that can mean a queue of nearly 2 hours if you find yourself at the back. The general guidance is to allow an hour for the secondary passport queue. As per my example of my partner the other week, the issue then is if you are delayed, as that secondary area has few facilities and you can't then roam the airport.

As I say, for an annual or bi-annual holiday, not really an issue. For regular travellers its a big faff.

No political leaning in this, just it is what it is. We are a third country now and we must comply, as is of course the case in the other direction.

Thanks for both of your posts Shnozz. Balanced and clear.

My English holiday home owning neighbours here in France voted for Brexit!
They are now just entering into retirement.
They are too stiff to admit thier mistake and are now expieriencing travel cost difficulties (they drive here)amongst many other things.
They want to get on and get many jobs done over here but it's going to take them twice as long now!

They say they will apply for a year long visa for next year.

Of course none of the problems would exist for them if the vote had gone the other way.
Hey ho.

[Tyre Smoke]

Could you define what you mean by travel cost difficulties?
I've not noticed any massive travel cost price hikes because of Brexit.
As a NZ passport holder, I've never noticed any great delays going in or out of Schengen any more than in and out of the USA for example.

Lastly, i know I'm guilty with this post, but could we keep this thread away from Brexit pros and cons and leave that to the myriad of other threads on the subject?

[Magooagain]

Tyre Smoke said:

Could you define what you mean by travel cost difficulties?
I've not noticed any massive travel cost price hikes because of Brexit.
As a NZ passport holder, I've never noticed any great delays going in or out of Schengen any more than in and out of the USA for example.

Lastly, i know I'm guilty with this post, but could we keep this thread away from Brexit pros and cons and leave that to the myriad of other threads on the subject?

It's basically the ferry and fuel costs for them. Before they would get a return crossing from thier chosen port for around £250/£300. They didn't come this month as they couldn't get anything cheaper than £600.
As I said,they are about to go into retirement so those added costs really count now.

[21st Century Man]

Are you suggesting those higher ferry/fuel costs wouldn't be there if the vote had gone the other way? It seems so? It was requested to keep Brexit out of it, well good, because Brexit has got nothing to do with it.

[Shnozz]

Tyre Smoke said:

Lastly, i know I'm guilty with this post, but could we keep this thread away from Brexit pros and cons and leave that to the myriad of other threads on the subject?

I did attempt to avoid any political leanings I harbour when responding. However, its very hard to avoid mention of the B word when it comes to some of the travel difficulties experienced, simply because it has added another layer of requirements both in terms of Covid (post-transition period) and also with the passport stage.

Nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of Brexit, just highlighting some of the extra complications we face being a third country now and no longer in the EU. Many people haven't travelled due to Covid and so are venturing into the EU for the first time post-Covid that also coincided with the new third country requirements. I think its also still the case that some teething issues exist in border guards and officials alike not being 100% certain although that seems to be calming down now.

It can be the elephant in the room no one talks about or we can accept it for what it is - but it is adding some extra considerations to travel that will remain in place moving forwards, even if security/staffing levels get resolved and the few remaining Covid checks etc.

The other issue is that because the UK was in the EU for most of the modern era of cheap and regular flying, its less set up to deal with the UK being a non-member state. A lot of regional airports fly generally only within the EU, so are now having to make special provisions for non-EU (being 99% UK flights only). For example, I fly from Alicante regularly and 99% of flights listed are within the EU or the UK. The runway cannot handle long distance flights anyway. Now they have had to set up and man a border control for pretty much the UK flights only. All very well somewhere like Madrid or Barcelona, with regular third country nation flights that have been in place for years; the Brits just get ushered into those already existing channels. However, for smaller airports that predominantly serve European flights only, they have had to adjust accordingly particularly when Spain forms the most popular holiday destination for the Brits, and a decent proportion to the airports on the Costas that are similar to ALC.

As I say, this isn't about politics, more the practical realities of what followed those politics.

[ooid]

Shnozz said:

Not wishing to stir that but just the above is the practical reality of how things have changed. You can decide yourself if it was worth it but that is very much on an individual subjective basis. If you don’t travel much within the EU then an extra hour here and there doesn’t really make much odds.

Absolutely… The only solution I guess is to run another referendum to join Schengen Area at least, to keep travels trouble free. Just like Switzerland did it in 2009, not EU but part of Schengen.

[21st Century Man]

That makes sense when you're on the mainland as borders are hard to control when you can walk across fields. I guess the UK and Ireland aren't because they're islands and control should you want it is easier. Ireland is a very pro EU member but still not in Schengen.

[Tyre Smoke]

My ferry costs to and from Caen have, if anything gone down slightly versus pre Brexit. I can get a crossing via Dover even cheaper. Obviously it makes no sense for me to go to Dover from Devon unless I'm heading towards Belgium/Germany, etc.

I can honestly say, hand on heart my ferry costs are no worse. The immigration either side is no slower either. There were always queues coming off the ferry into Pompey, and the same in Caen (Ouistreham).

I appreciate flying might be different, but for me nothing has changed. A bit of forward planning for delays because of staffing is all now, which won't be forever.

[Shnozz]

On costs, I haven't noticed any B related changes.

Some fluctuations which I think take into account usual seasonal variation and also the post-Covid pent up demand meaning some airlines trying to claw back a little lost revenue. Also expecting price rises due to fuel costs. Surprised in fact that looking forward we are not seeing greater hikes.

I rarely take the ferry or Chunnel to be fair to comment on pricing for those means and appreciate this thread is about driving to France.

[Tyre Smoke]

Don't disagree there Schnozz.

Generally though, I'm not convinced (other than world prices of fuel, etc) that flying is more expensive. In March, my son and I flew from Bristol to Manchester (via Dublin) for £45 for both of us. The train would have been four times the price. Wr also, last September went to Spa through Dover to Calais for £80 return.
He's of to Corfu with three of his mates for a week in a self catering dive with Tui from Bristol mid August for a cost of £275 a head. Not my thing, but he's 18 and just finished his A levels, so I guess drinking is more important that a comfortable bed and peace and quiet!

[Shnozz]

Yeah, its still do-able at bargain rates, don't get me wrong. I am in the unenviable position of taking Ryanair/Jet2 flights monthly back and forward to my other house so perhaps get more exposure than most to what is still marginal flight price fluctuations. But they are just that, marginal.

I have the benefit of being self-employed and with a property/car each end, I don't need to really plan dates based on anything other than price. I can pick the cheapest departure flight for a given period and likewise then decide on a return date usually once I have arrived in Spain. Rarely do I pay more than £50 and quite often £30 or less. School holidays screw that up but then I avoid those times wherever possible.

[Tyre Smoke]

Are you resident in Spain Schnozz? So you don't have this 90 days a year thing going on?

[Magooagain]

Tyre Smoke said:

My ferry costs to and from Caen have, if anything gone down slightly versus pre Brexit. I can get a crossing via Dover even cheaper. Obviously it makes no sense for me to go to Dover from Devon unless I'm heading towards Belgium/Germany, etc.

I can honestly say, hand on heart my ferry costs are no worse. The immigration either side is no slower either. There were always queues coming off the ferry into Pompey, and the same in Caen (Ouistreham).

I appreciate flying might be different, but for me nothing has changed. A bit of forward planning for delays because of staffing is all now, which won't be forever.

Points taken and appreciated. I can only go on what I'm being told. It could have more to do with school holiday prices as someone mentioned.
My wife has that problem with flying into the uk as she only has time off when the schools are on holidays.

It's not affecting me really as I've not been back to the uk since 2017 and no plans to go anytime soon.( famous last words).

[Tyre Smoke]

For example, a last minute trip with two dogs, caravan, wife and myself, Pompey to Caen overnight with a cabin both ways is just shy of £800.

I can book the same trip, without dogs, for Le Mans next June for £545.

I don't think that's bad at all.

If I could find space on a ferry, Portsmouth to Santander was over £1800 return.

[Shnozz]

Tyre Smoke said:

Are you resident in Spain Schnozz? So you don't have this 90 days a year thing going on?

No, UK resident. It's 90 days in a rolling 180 so I have to comply with that.

And let us not go down that route or I WILL end up in a Brexit rant!

Edited by Shnozz on Monday 25th July 17:41

[Amateurish]

I take the Eurotunnel pretty regularly, and I reckon prices have gone nearly doubled vs pre Brexit / Covid.

So my typical journey would have been £100 each way now it's more like £200.

[omniflow]

Tyre Smoke said:

For example, a last minute trip with two dogs, caravan, wife and myself, Pompey to Caen overnight with a cabin both ways is just shy of £800.

I can book the same trip, without dogs, for Le Mans next June for £545.

I don't think that's bad at all.

If I could find space on a ferry, Portsmouth to Santander was over £1800 return.

Where on earth is "Pompey"?

I presume it's not Portsmouth, as that's spelt in full lower down. So where else could it be? Plymouth?

[Magooagain]

Tyre Smoke said:

For example, a last minute trip with two dogs, caravan, wife and myself, Pompey to Caen overnight with a cabin both ways is just shy of £800.

I can book the same trip, without dogs, for Le Mans next June for £545.

I don't think that's bad at all.

If I could find space on a ferry, Portsmouth to Santander was over £1800 return.

To me,they all seem expensive. But that probably says more about me than the prices.

Where have the days gone when I used to turn up at Calais or Dunkirk at midnight with van and trailer,not mention the trailer, and get across to the uk for €50.00?