How bad is flying economy these days?
Discussion
Griffith4ever said:
Dog Star said:
I’ve never flown anything but economy in my life - the thought of spunking thousands of my hard earned cash for a bigger seat and a fake smile from the aircraft staff fills me with horror. I could spend that money on something that wouldn’t vanish in a pooof of memories the second I walked off the plane.
If I ran a big company that sent staff on long haul foreign flights in business class I would introduce a money saving measure: offer the staff member half the cost difference between economy and business as a cash bonus. (Ie economy is £500, business is £2500, so the traveller gets £1000 and you, the employer, saves £1000.)
... that's why you don't run a big company. Your staff would underperform after repeatedly getting off long flights knackered - great way to arrive and meet clients. Employers don't send their staff BC as a perk, they do it either a) get their staff to where they need to be in good shape and b) to be competative in the employment market - the best people won't work for companies that get cheap on them and treat them poorly. It's all very well holding your chin up and "getting on" with your crammed holiday flight once a year, it's altogether another thing trying to do that to employees who are flying on a weekly basis.If I ran a big company that sent staff on long haul foreign flights in business class I would introduce a money saving measure: offer the staff member half the cost difference between economy and business as a cash bonus. (Ie economy is £500, business is £2500, so the traveller gets £1000 and you, the employer, saves £1000.)
You haven't done it, so you are not aware that flying in a better class isn't just "bigger seat and a fake smile" - it is an entirely different ball game in terms of comfort, peace, ability to work, and being fresh when you land. Long haul.
Edited by Griffith4ever on Sunday 19th March 22:36
Emerging from a daytime LH flight in economy is no great imposition. Overnight LHs it really depends on the lenght of flight. It really needs to be 10hrs plus to see any meanginful benefit. Overnighters into the Gulf for example leave you feeling as s
t in business as they do in economy. The fresh when you land bit, is frankly not an argument to me. As for the ability to work..... I don't see much work going on in business, maybe some do, the majority don't. Comfort & peace I'll grant you can be much better. However if you fly regulalrly you will benefit from being able to pick the best seats & seat blocking even in economy whihc will greatly improve the experience. You'll also get the better facilities at the airport to speed that side of things. I'm not altogether convinced by the business class argument for the majority of flights. The unavoidable truth is "if you have to ask, you can't afford it".
It's not a question of trading off against anything. If you are then don't. There's no "I'd rather have a better hotel", people have both.
It's similar to the "hot water tap" threads, and "kitchen" threads. Some people can afford to buy things that make their lives easier without having to develop a business case or sacrifice a meal.
It's okay, no one cares, do what you want, don't make life difficult.
Wear sunscreen.
It's not a question of trading off against anything. If you are then don't. There's no "I'd rather have a better hotel", people have both.
It's similar to the "hot water tap" threads, and "kitchen" threads. Some people can afford to buy things that make their lives easier without having to develop a business case or sacrifice a meal.
It's okay, no one cares, do what you want, don't make life difficult.
Wear sunscreen.
GT03ROB said:
DogStar's example would actually be an interesting study or something similar where the employee got a day off to recover from a LH flight if in economy. I'd wager most employees would take the cash or the day off. There are large numbers of companies that operate an economy only flight policy, it is probably more common than those that don't.
Emerging from a daytime LH flight in economy is no great imposition. Overnight LHs it really depends on the lenght of flight. It really needs to be 10hrs plus to see any meanginful benefit. Overnighters into the Gulf for example leave you feeling as st in business as they do in economy. The fresh when you land bit, is frankly not an argument to me. As for the ability to work..... I don't see much work going on in business, maybe some do, the majority don't. Comfort & peace I'll grant you can be much better. However if you fly regulalrly you will benefit from being able to pick the best seats & seat blocking even in economy whihc will greatly improve the experience. You'll also get the better facilities at the airport to speed that side of things. I'm not altogether convinced by the business class argument for the majority of flights.
Interesting. I don't fly business for business (self employed) and I didn't when I worked for companies. All my "knowledge" comes from friends who work for companies - so not a solid experience base. In fairness, they are pretty high up the ladder, and one of them flies to LA very frequently.Emerging from a daytime LH flight in economy is no great imposition. Overnight LHs it really depends on the lenght of flight. It really needs to be 10hrs plus to see any meanginful benefit. Overnighters into the Gulf for example leave you feeling as s
t in business as they do in economy. The fresh when you land bit, is frankly not an argument to me. As for the ability to work..... I don't see much work going on in business, maybe some do, the majority don't. Comfort & peace I'll grant you can be much better. However if you fly regulalrly you will benefit from being able to pick the best seats & seat blocking even in economy whihc will greatly improve the experience. You'll also get the better facilities at the airport to speed that side of things. I'm not altogether convinced by the business class argument for the majority of flights. Any BC and PE flights I take are for leisure, paid by me.
When I was an IT director they tried to fly me to NY economy, when all the creatives (ad agency) went BC. The best they would do was PE. It never happened in the end, and ultimately, I was made redundant within a year! :---) Best thing that ever happened to me, it transpired.
number2 said:
The unavoidable truth is "if you have to ask, you can't afford it".
It's not a question of trading off against anything. If you are then don't. There's no "I'd rather have a better hotel", people have both.
It's similar to the "hot water tap" threads, and "kitchen" threads. Some people can afford to buy things that make their lives easier without having to develop a business case or sacrifice a meal.
It's okay, no one cares, do what you want, don't make life difficult.
Wear sunscreen.
Well said.It's not a question of trading off against anything. If you are then don't. There's no "I'd rather have a better hotel", people have both.
It's similar to the "hot water tap" threads, and "kitchen" threads. Some people can afford to buy things that make their lives easier without having to develop a business case or sacrifice a meal.
It's okay, no one cares, do what you want, don't make life difficult.
Wear sunscreen.
Griffith4ever said:
Dog Star said:
I’ve never flown anything but economy in my life - the thought of spunking thousands of my hard earned cash for a bigger seat and a fake smile from the aircraft staff fills me with horror. I could spend that money on something that wouldn’t vanish in a pooof of memories the second I walked off the plane.
If I ran a big company that sent staff on long haul foreign flights in business class I would introduce a money saving measure: offer the staff member half the cost difference between economy and business as a cash bonus. (Ie economy is £500, business is £2500, so the traveller gets £1000 and you, the employer, saves £1000.)
... that's why you don't run a big company. Your staff would underperform after repeatedly getting off long flights knackered - great way to arrive and meet clients. Employers don't send their staff BC as a perk, they do it either a) get their staff to where they need to be in good shape and b) to be competative in the employment market - the best people won't work for companies that get cheap on them and treat them poorly. It's all very well holding your chin up and "getting on" with your crammed holiday flight once a year, it's altogether another thing trying to do that to employees who are flying on a weekly basis.If I ran a big company that sent staff on long haul foreign flights in business class I would introduce a money saving measure: offer the staff member half the cost difference between economy and business as a cash bonus. (Ie economy is £500, business is £2500, so the traveller gets £1000 and you, the employer, saves £1000.)
You haven't done it, so you are not aware that flying in a better class isn't just "bigger seat and a fake smile" - it is an entirely different ball game in terms of comfort, peace, ability to work, and being fresh when you land. Long haul.
Edited by Griffith4ever on Sunday 19th March 22:36
Company policy is economy for everyone no matter how far the flight
Only exception is if they are expected to go straight into a meeting/work on arrival or within a specified time period and that’s only for longhaul .. Europe no chance
There’s been a massive move away from people actually travelling unless necessary .. there’s no jollies
Earthdweller said:
My wife works in a senior position for a global business and travels every week, mainly around Europe but also further at times
Company policy is economy for everyone no matter how far the flight
Only exception is if they are expected to go straight into a meeting/work on arrival or within a specified time period and that’s only for longhaul .. Europe no chance
There’s been a massive move away from people actually travelling unless necessary .. there’s no jollies
Double whammy really. You’d think the costs saving by moving many meetings to zoom would give a little more room to allow, well, a little more room when you are forced to travel with work. Company policy is economy for everyone no matter how far the flight
Only exception is if they are expected to go straight into a meeting/work on arrival or within a specified time period and that’s only for longhaul .. Europe no chance
There’s been a massive move away from people actually travelling unless necessary .. there’s no jollies
Clue to me is in the name. If I’m going on business, doesn’t seem too much to ask to fly in business class.
Shnozz said:
Clue to me is in the name. If I’m going on business, doesn’t seem too much to ask to fly in business class.
If you have clients that can support business fill yer boots. Otherwise I still struggle with most justifications.I do around 50 flights per year so nowhere near as many as some. Would business be nice on those, of course, !st would be better, but I’d have little time for any employee refusing to travel because they couldn’t have business.
Earthdweller said:
Griffith4ever said:
Dog Star said:
I’ve never flown anything but economy in my life - the thought of spunking thousands of my hard earned cash for a bigger seat and a fake smile from the aircraft staff fills me with horror. I could spend that money on something that wouldn’t vanish in a pooof of memories the second I walked off the plane.
If I ran a big company that sent staff on long haul foreign flights in business class I would introduce a money saving measure: offer the staff member half the cost difference between economy and business as a cash bonus. (Ie economy is £500, business is £2500, so the traveller gets £1000 and you, the employer, saves £1000.)
... that's why you don't run a big company. Your staff would underperform after repeatedly getting off long flights knackered - great way to arrive and meet clients. Employers don't send their staff BC as a perk, they do it either a) get their staff to where they need to be in good shape and b) to be competative in the employment market - the best people won't work for companies that get cheap on them and treat them poorly. It's all very well holding your chin up and "getting on" with your crammed holiday flight once a year, it's altogether another thing trying to do that to employees who are flying on a weekly basis.If I ran a big company that sent staff on long haul foreign flights in business class I would introduce a money saving measure: offer the staff member half the cost difference between economy and business as a cash bonus. (Ie economy is £500, business is £2500, so the traveller gets £1000 and you, the employer, saves £1000.)
You haven't done it, so you are not aware that flying in a better class isn't just "bigger seat and a fake smile" - it is an entirely different ball game in terms of comfort, peace, ability to work, and being fresh when you land. Long haul.
Edited by Griffith4ever on Sunday 19th March 22:36
Company policy is economy for everyone no matter how far the flight
Only exception is if they are expected to go straight into a meeting/work on arrival or within a specified time period and that’s only for longhaul .. Europe no chance
There’s been a massive move away from people actually travelling unless necessary .. there’s no jollies
Just got back from a long weekend in Valencia. We flew with BA from Heathrow (T3 for some reason) and booked economy. Total cost was approx £360 for 2 people.
BA offered the chance to upgrade to business for £90 / person / leg - I decided to do this for the outbound, but left the inbound as economy.
We checked in on-line and only had hand baggage, so no advantages there.
The BA lounge at T3 was decent enough. I wouldn't call it opulent, but the food was pretty decent and you could help yourself to as much booze as you wanted. This was a definite plus and was far better than I was expecting
The flight was totally rammed, and they were putting all of the wheelie bags in the hold. Another plus, as they left the business passengers alone.
On the plane, as has been said, it's the same seat with no-one in the middle. I think there might be slightly more legroom, but I'm not certain.
There was another breakfast served on the plane, and again free-flowing booze. I'll mark this one as neutral, as this meant we didn't fancy any lunch once we got to Valencia.
On the way back, the last thing we wanted was any more food or booze, which is one reason why I left it as economy. The flight was again rammed, but we were far enough up the queue for boarding that the woman tagging wheelie bags didn't get to us. We only just managed to find homes for our bags. Flight was fine, but seat was a bit cramped.
On balance - Outbound - definitely worth paying the extra for business. Inbound - Economy was good enough.
BA offered the chance to upgrade to business for £90 / person / leg - I decided to do this for the outbound, but left the inbound as economy.
We checked in on-line and only had hand baggage, so no advantages there.
The BA lounge at T3 was decent enough. I wouldn't call it opulent, but the food was pretty decent and you could help yourself to as much booze as you wanted. This was a definite plus and was far better than I was expecting
The flight was totally rammed, and they were putting all of the wheelie bags in the hold. Another plus, as they left the business passengers alone.
On the plane, as has been said, it's the same seat with no-one in the middle. I think there might be slightly more legroom, but I'm not certain.
There was another breakfast served on the plane, and again free-flowing booze. I'll mark this one as neutral, as this meant we didn't fancy any lunch once we got to Valencia.
On the way back, the last thing we wanted was any more food or booze, which is one reason why I left it as economy. The flight was again rammed, but we were far enough up the queue for boarding that the woman tagging wheelie bags didn't get to us. We only just managed to find homes for our bags. Flight was fine, but seat was a bit cramped.
On balance - Outbound - definitely worth paying the extra for business. Inbound - Economy was good enough.
omniflow said:
On balance - Outbound - definitely worth paying the extra for business. Inbound - Economy was good enough.
"European Business Class" is rarely worth it over economy, usually you're on small planes with standard seating so all you get is a seat at the front of the plane, middle seat left empty, priority boarding and maybe a decent meal and free drinks. Maybe worth it if the cost to upgrade is cheap. I've upgraded myself at check in for a few Bucharest - Aberdeen flights but I've also gone without it, as 2.5 hours to Amsterdam and 1 hour to Aberdeen pass by quickly.But long-haul is a different case, especially if the airline offer a decent BC product.
omniflow said:
Just got back from a long weekend in Valencia. We flew with BA from Heathrow (T3 for some reason) and booked economy. Total cost was approx £360 for 2 people.
BA offered the chance to upgrade to business for £90 / person / leg - I decided to do this for the outbound, but left the inbound as economy.
We checked in on-line and only had hand baggage, so no advantages there.
The BA lounge at T3 was decent enough. I wouldn't call it opulent, but the food was pretty decent and you could help yourself to as much booze as you wanted. This was a definite plus and was far better than I was expecting
The flight was totally rammed, and they were putting all of the wheelie bags in the hold. Another plus, as they left the business passengers alone.
On the plane, as has been said, it's the same seat with no-one in the middle. I think there might be slightly more legroom, but I'm not certain.
There was another breakfast served on the plane, and again free-flowing booze. I'll mark this one as neutral, as this meant we didn't fancy any lunch once we got to Valencia.
On the way back, the last thing we wanted was any more food or booze, which is one reason why I left it as economy. The flight was again rammed, but we were far enough up the queue for boarding that the woman tagging wheelie bags didn't get to us. We only just managed to find homes for our bags. Flight was fine, but seat was a bit cramped.
On balance - Outbound - definitely worth paying the extra for business. Inbound - Economy was good enough.
For future reference you can use any of the oneworld lounges with BA’s being the worst at T3. The Qantas lounge if it’s open at that time is really nice, as is the Cathay lounge.BA offered the chance to upgrade to business for £90 / person / leg - I decided to do this for the outbound, but left the inbound as economy.
We checked in on-line and only had hand baggage, so no advantages there.
The BA lounge at T3 was decent enough. I wouldn't call it opulent, but the food was pretty decent and you could help yourself to as much booze as you wanted. This was a definite plus and was far better than I was expecting
The flight was totally rammed, and they were putting all of the wheelie bags in the hold. Another plus, as they left the business passengers alone.
On the plane, as has been said, it's the same seat with no-one in the middle. I think there might be slightly more legroom, but I'm not certain.
There was another breakfast served on the plane, and again free-flowing booze. I'll mark this one as neutral, as this meant we didn't fancy any lunch once we got to Valencia.
On the way back, the last thing we wanted was any more food or booze, which is one reason why I left it as economy. The flight was again rammed, but we were far enough up the queue for boarding that the woman tagging wheelie bags didn't get to us. We only just managed to find homes for our bags. Flight was fine, but seat was a bit cramped.
On balance - Outbound - definitely worth paying the extra for business. Inbound - Economy was good enough.
£90 seems just about worth considering for me, although I'm tight and probably wouldn't do it. I'd just think I would spend less than half of that on food and beer in the terminal, and the seats in short haul aren't different enough.
Is a bit of a nicer, quieter lounge worth circa £50 for an hour or so...? Not sure.
Is a bit of a nicer, quieter lounge worth circa £50 for an hour or so...? Not sure.
I've just had to rearrange travel plans while I am in the US which has led to me now having 3 more internal flights instead of 1 (and delaying my return) - booking agent automatically (I thought) went for business on the internal legs which I asked her to change back to economy but the overall difference in price for all 3 trip is £30 - for £10 a go even I think it's worth the extra for the seat (I already have lounge access so no change there) - always worth checking
On a Dreamliner or an A380, economy is fine, IMO. You're in the same plane as everyone else, breathing the same recycled farts and drinking the same flat, lukewarm coffee. There is nothing worse than sitting around the business class bores, all passive-aggressively trying to out-cock each other.
This thread has been great reading though, funny as fk. The OP was hilarious (if it was actually serious then I'm due a parrot)
This thread has been great reading though, funny as f
k. The OP was hilarious (if it was actually serious then I'm due a parrot)SteveStrange said:
There is nothing worse than sitting around the business class bores, all passive-aggressively trying to out-cock each other.
Does everyone start ganging up on you if your watch isn't fancy enough? I assumed people scuttled to their seat and started working or sleeping.
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