How bad is flying economy these days?
Discussion
If flying long haul from LHR then Virgin Upper no questions (unless you are going first of course). The drive through check in is worth it alone. Last time I did it they had my cases out of the car and my boarding passes waiting before I had even put my jacket on. Very good. And the clubhouse lounge is pretty good (post covid not "as" good but still good).
I dont mind economy, but 5-6 hours is my limit. If its any longer then I will fly business assuming its a proper modern business lie flat seat. As said short haul business is almost never worth it.
I look forward to flights when its long haul business, its stress free for the most part and just little things like getting essentially unlimited baggage etc. You get to eat when you want, drink when you want. The design of (most of) the seats makes it so you dont really see other passengers.
There are 2 other things that I like. One is the overhead bins, you almost always get a bin assigned for your seat so eg you are in 4A you get a bin with 4A on it. No scrum, no smashing your case in between 4 others. Second, when it comes time to get off the plane, no one is jumping up and grabbing their stuff over you and trying to rush off. Because you get off first no matter how long you take. Its just more civil. Economy could be like that, if people were not d*cks.
Oh and the last thing, the chances of a screaming baby are significantly less. My next long haul bc flight is at the end of the month, 13 hrs to HK on CP A350. Looking forward to it and also getting to try the Cathay lounge in HK which I have heard is really nice.
IME the only real downside is if you decide to really enjoy yourself is the post flight hangover.
I dont mind economy, but 5-6 hours is my limit. If its any longer then I will fly business assuming its a proper modern business lie flat seat. As said short haul business is almost never worth it.
I look forward to flights when its long haul business, its stress free for the most part and just little things like getting essentially unlimited baggage etc. You get to eat when you want, drink when you want. The design of (most of) the seats makes it so you dont really see other passengers.
There are 2 other things that I like. One is the overhead bins, you almost always get a bin assigned for your seat so eg you are in 4A you get a bin with 4A on it. No scrum, no smashing your case in between 4 others. Second, when it comes time to get off the plane, no one is jumping up and grabbing their stuff over you and trying to rush off. Because you get off first no matter how long you take. Its just more civil. Economy could be like that, if people were not d*cks.
Oh and the last thing, the chances of a screaming baby are significantly less. My next long haul bc flight is at the end of the month, 13 hrs to HK on CP A350. Looking forward to it and also getting to try the Cathay lounge in HK which I have heard is really nice.
IME the only real downside is if you decide to really enjoy yourself is the post flight hangover.
30+ years of flying for business and pleasure here, both employed and as a contractor. Adding my tuppence
- If the business I'm working for wants me to be functional the day after an overnight flight, they pay for flat beds. Otherwise I choose to take the daytime flights - it's a cost to the business either way.
- The business class con of simply an empty middle seat of 3 is used for surprisingly far destinations. And isn't the way to have a restful sleep on night flights (looking at you, BA to Athens or Tel Aviv with stupid departure/arrival times). I've had up to 7 hour flights from London that way. Definitely check the seat config for your date/route (Seatguru is helpful)
- If I'm flying for pleasure, and I regularly fly 9+ hours to Vancouver. Then paying the entire cost of the holiday for two square metres for 12 hours? No thanks. I can think of lots better things to do with the cash. Things that make the economy experience tolerable, even for 12+ hour flights, are
a) moving regularly even if just in the seat - I practice yoga so even little stretches can be beneficial
b) noise blocking headphones (Shure passive + Jabra active are both great)
c) white noise on the headphones while sleeping
d) ipad loaded with films in case the IFE is rubbish or non-existent
e) choosing a seat at the back of a cabin so no-one is jabbing at your headrest while you're trying to sleep or worse, pulling on it to lever themselves up
f) ETA there will be better food in the airport than on the plane, so if you're coming up to a natural meal time then eat before boarding, especially if it's a redeye flight. Also an eye mask also essential for a full sleep. I have an Emirates Business eyemask which fully blocks without being uncomfortable.
If I were going even longer, for instance via the Gulf to Australia, then I'd break the flights in two and stay somewhere interesting overnight in the layover city. 24 hours straight travelling is not fun. Returning from Japan recently, I had six hours to kill in Haneda airport and instead of enduring them sat by the gate, I mentally broke the trip in two by staying a few hours in a cabin hotel. It made the 13.5 hours HND-LHR more relaxing having had a sleep and a quick onsen beforehand.
- If the business I'm working for wants me to be functional the day after an overnight flight, they pay for flat beds. Otherwise I choose to take the daytime flights - it's a cost to the business either way.
- The business class con of simply an empty middle seat of 3 is used for surprisingly far destinations. And isn't the way to have a restful sleep on night flights (looking at you, BA to Athens or Tel Aviv with stupid departure/arrival times). I've had up to 7 hour flights from London that way. Definitely check the seat config for your date/route (Seatguru is helpful)
- If I'm flying for pleasure, and I regularly fly 9+ hours to Vancouver. Then paying the entire cost of the holiday for two square metres for 12 hours? No thanks. I can think of lots better things to do with the cash. Things that make the economy experience tolerable, even for 12+ hour flights, are
a) moving regularly even if just in the seat - I practice yoga so even little stretches can be beneficial
b) noise blocking headphones (Shure passive + Jabra active are both great)
c) white noise on the headphones while sleeping
d) ipad loaded with films in case the IFE is rubbish or non-existent
e) choosing a seat at the back of a cabin so no-one is jabbing at your headrest while you're trying to sleep or worse, pulling on it to lever themselves up
f) ETA there will be better food in the airport than on the plane, so if you're coming up to a natural meal time then eat before boarding, especially if it's a redeye flight. Also an eye mask also essential for a full sleep. I have an Emirates Business eyemask which fully blocks without being uncomfortable.
If I were going even longer, for instance via the Gulf to Australia, then I'd break the flights in two and stay somewhere interesting overnight in the layover city. 24 hours straight travelling is not fun. Returning from Japan recently, I had six hours to kill in Haneda airport and instead of enduring them sat by the gate, I mentally broke the trip in two by staying a few hours in a cabin hotel. It made the 13.5 hours HND-LHR more relaxing having had a sleep and a quick onsen beforehand.
Edited by Whoozit on Tuesday 4th April 08:10
I have also found, IME, that you can get pretty good prices if you are willing to fly on the cheap days. Google flights helps.
Also, building brand loyalty helps because you can earn miles / points and again makes it cheaper. Add on credit card that builds points and its better again.
My last upper class flight was JFK>MAN and was £800. I could have done it cheaper still but wanted that date.
On that date regular one way economy was about £600 IIRC.
So it cost me £200 extra.
Add on meal and 2 drinks in the lounge, 64 kg hold luggage, 2 reasonable meals on the plane and a few drinks and honestly its probably break even.
Its not always expensive.
I am doing return trip, MAN>HKG>NRT all business for £2500. Economy is around £1300.
Given its 4 flights my man maths makes it £300 a leg for lounge, food, drinks, seat which is a bed, more luggage etc.
No brainer if you ask me.
Also, building brand loyalty helps because you can earn miles / points and again makes it cheaper. Add on credit card that builds points and its better again.
My last upper class flight was JFK>MAN and was £800. I could have done it cheaper still but wanted that date.
On that date regular one way economy was about £600 IIRC.
So it cost me £200 extra.
Add on meal and 2 drinks in the lounge, 64 kg hold luggage, 2 reasonable meals on the plane and a few drinks and honestly its probably break even.
Its not always expensive.
I am doing return trip, MAN>HKG>NRT all business for £2500. Economy is around £1300.
Given its 4 flights my man maths makes it £300 a leg for lounge, food, drinks, seat which is a bed, more luggage etc.
No brainer if you ask me.
Whoozit said:
30+ years of flying for business and pleasure here, both employed and as a contractor. Adding my tuppence
- If the business I'm working for wants me to be functional the day after an overnight flight, they pay for flat beds. Otherwise I choose to take the daytime flights - it's a cost to the business either way.
- The business class con of simply an empty middle seat of 3 is used for surprisingly far destinations. And isn't the way to have a restful sleep on night flights (looking at you, BA to Athens or Tel Aviv with stupid departure/arrival times). I've had up to 7 hour flights from London that way. Definitely check the seat config for your date/route (Seatguru is helpful)
- If I'm flying for pleasure, and I regularly fly 9+ hours to Vancouver. Then paying the entire cost of the holiday for two square metres for 12 hours? No thanks. I can think of lots better things to do with the cash. Things that make the economy experience tolerable, even for 12+ hour flights, are
a) moving regularly even if just in the seat - I practice yoga so even little stretches can be beneficial
b) noise blocking headphones (Shure passive + Jabra active are both great)
c) white noise on the headphones while sleeping
d) ipad loaded with films in case the IFE is rubbish or non-existent
e) choosing a seat at the back of a cabin so no-one is jabbing at your headrest while you're trying to sleep or worse, pulling on it to lever themselves up
If I were going even longer, for instance via the Gulf to Australia, then I'd break the flights in two and stay somewhere interesting overnight in the layover city. 24 hours straight travelling is not fun. Returning from Japan recently, I had six hours to kill in Haneda airport and instead of enduring them sat by the gate, I mentally broke the trip in two by staying a few hours in a cabin hotel. It made the 13.5 hours HND-LHR more relaxing having had a sleep and a quick onsen beforehand.
A sensible post. I will just add that seatguru hasn’t been supported or updated in a very long time now and is woefully out of date (they still have BA 747’s listed for example) so you’re better off using aerolopa.- If the business I'm working for wants me to be functional the day after an overnight flight, they pay for flat beds. Otherwise I choose to take the daytime flights - it's a cost to the business either way.
- The business class con of simply an empty middle seat of 3 is used for surprisingly far destinations. And isn't the way to have a restful sleep on night flights (looking at you, BA to Athens or Tel Aviv with stupid departure/arrival times). I've had up to 7 hour flights from London that way. Definitely check the seat config for your date/route (Seatguru is helpful)
- If I'm flying for pleasure, and I regularly fly 9+ hours to Vancouver. Then paying the entire cost of the holiday for two square metres for 12 hours? No thanks. I can think of lots better things to do with the cash. Things that make the economy experience tolerable, even for 12+ hour flights, are
a) moving regularly even if just in the seat - I practice yoga so even little stretches can be beneficial
b) noise blocking headphones (Shure passive + Jabra active are both great)
c) white noise on the headphones while sleeping
d) ipad loaded with films in case the IFE is rubbish or non-existent
e) choosing a seat at the back of a cabin so no-one is jabbing at your headrest while you're trying to sleep or worse, pulling on it to lever themselves up
If I were going even longer, for instance via the Gulf to Australia, then I'd break the flights in two and stay somewhere interesting overnight in the layover city. 24 hours straight travelling is not fun. Returning from Japan recently, I had six hours to kill in Haneda airport and instead of enduring them sat by the gate, I mentally broke the trip in two by staying a few hours in a cabin hotel. It made the 13.5 hours HND-LHR more relaxing having had a sleep and a quick onsen beforehand.
Edited by Whoozit on Monday 3rd April 10:52
WY86 said:
For me personally i find premium economy the best compromise for longer haul flights. I struggle with sleeping on a plane even in a business/first class lay flat seat, if i knew i was going to get 5-7 hours decent sleep i would see the value more however.
I've only slept on a plane once. It was truly like magic. Suddenly there I was. Wish I had the knack the rest of the time.
loafer123 said:
Drugs. You need more drugs.
I don’t take them, but have friends who do when they fly, and swear by them.
The sleeping stuff I've tried made me lay in bed all night on the cusp of sleep until it wore off and I got up. I don’t take them, but have friends who do when they fly, and swear by them.
Some day we will be given medically-induced comas at check in and will be placed into bodybags for the flight. That'll work for me.
bloomen said:
The sleeping stuff I've tried made me lay in bed all night on the cusp of sleep until it wore off and I got up.
Some day we will be given medically-induced comas at check in and will be placed into bodybags for the flight. That'll work for me.
Exactly the same for me. I was flying Seoul to Sydney and there was a typhoon over the Phillipines. If I was on qantas, I would have felt safe, but I was Asiana so knew they’d fly through the middle. Had a couple of sleeping tablets and about two bottles of red. Spent about 5 hours in a not quite awake, not quite asleep, horrible mood as we got tossed around like a washing machine Some day we will be given medically-induced comas at check in and will be placed into bodybags for the flight. That'll work for me.
sam.rog said:
Cant you charter a flight?
Haha I don't come on pH that often but this did tickle me.I really wonder if this is a serious thread, if you can afford business I wouldn't be questioning this for a bargain I'd be straight in business. I've flown business a bunch but I've never paid for it myself as I can't really afford it. Economy sucks!
bloomen said:
I've only slept on a plane once. It was truly like magic. Suddenly there I was.
I am getting there - very jealous of those who fall asleep while the plane taxi's - I did fly back from the US the other day and thought I was dozing only to work out I was being woken up by the combined sound of the end of breakfast service and the pilot announcing 40 mins to landing. 5 hours sleep on a 6 1/2 hour flight - result 
Whoozit said:
30+ years of flying for business and pleasure here, both employed and as a contractor. Adding my tuppence
- If the business I'm working for wants me to be functional the day after an overnight flight, they pay for flat beds. Otherwise I choose to take the daytime flights - it's a cost to the business either way.
- The business class con of simply an empty middle seat of 3 is used for surprisingly far destinations. And isn't the way to have a restful sleep on night flights (looking at you, BA to Athens or Tel Aviv with stupid departure/arrival times). I've had up to 7 hour flights from London that way. Definitely check the seat config for your date/route (Seatguru is helpful)
- If I'm flying for pleasure, and I regularly fly 9+ hours to Vancouver. Then paying the entire cost of the holiday for two square metres for 12 hours? No thanks. I can think of lots better things to do with the cash. Things that make the economy experience tolerable, even for 12+ hour flights, are
a) moving regularly even if just in the seat - I practice yoga so even little stretches can be beneficial
b) noise blocking headphones (Shure passive + Jabra active are both great)
c) white noise on the headphones while sleeping
d) ipad loaded with films in case the IFE is rubbish or non-existent
e) choosing a seat at the back of a cabin so no-one is jabbing at your headrest while you're trying to sleep or worse, pulling on it to lever themselves up
If I were going even longer, for instance via the Gulf to Australia, then I'd break the flights in two and stay somewhere interesting overnight in the layover city. 24 hours straight travelling is not fun. Returning from Japan recently, I had six hours to kill in Haneda airport and instead of enduring them sat by the gate, I mentally broke the trip in two by staying a few hours in a cabin hotel. It made the 13.5 hours HND-LHR more relaxing having had a sleep and a quick onsen beforehand.
It’s been a few years but when I was flying back from Central America I’d usually have a 8/9 hours wait in San Jose Costa Rica before a long flight to Madrid and then a leg it to catch the connection back to Heathrow… l did a day room a few times at San Jose but got bored, so I used local tourist companies and did all sorts of city tours and also got taken to interesting environmental conservation places.- If the business I'm working for wants me to be functional the day after an overnight flight, they pay for flat beds. Otherwise I choose to take the daytime flights - it's a cost to the business either way.
- The business class con of simply an empty middle seat of 3 is used for surprisingly far destinations. And isn't the way to have a restful sleep on night flights (looking at you, BA to Athens or Tel Aviv with stupid departure/arrival times). I've had up to 7 hour flights from London that way. Definitely check the seat config for your date/route (Seatguru is helpful)
- If I'm flying for pleasure, and I regularly fly 9+ hours to Vancouver. Then paying the entire cost of the holiday for two square metres for 12 hours? No thanks. I can think of lots better things to do with the cash. Things that make the economy experience tolerable, even for 12+ hour flights, are
a) moving regularly even if just in the seat - I practice yoga so even little stretches can be beneficial
b) noise blocking headphones (Shure passive + Jabra active are both great)
c) white noise on the headphones while sleeping
d) ipad loaded with films in case the IFE is rubbish or non-existent
e) choosing a seat at the back of a cabin so no-one is jabbing at your headrest while you're trying to sleep or worse, pulling on it to lever themselves up
If I were going even longer, for instance via the Gulf to Australia, then I'd break the flights in two and stay somewhere interesting overnight in the layover city. 24 hours straight travelling is not fun. Returning from Japan recently, I had six hours to kill in Haneda airport and instead of enduring them sat by the gate, I mentally broke the trip in two by staying a few hours in a cabin hotel. It made the 13.5 hours HND-LHR more relaxing having had a sleep and a quick onsen beforehand.
Edited by Whoozit on Monday 3rd April 10:52
As it was Iberia the business class was a velour seat in front of a curtain and I don’t think there was a single flight without a screeching child
I’m glad I don’t have to fly for work more than a few hours a year nowadays now, couldn’t care less about flat beds etc, travelling is dead time unless it’s for leisure as far as I’m concerned. The last post has me chuckling. My wife doesn’t fly much, except holiday time, I’m the mug who does the biz travel, ergo unwelcome vast experience of European short haul via every different airline going.
She has though managed to acquire an absolutely visceral loathing of Iberian due to a flight she once took with them 20yrs ago. This is strong enough to persist to this day, so that she won’t tolerate the idea of Iberian - any class - even when they are the only really viable option to get down to a destination she wishes to go to.
As an aside - it’s generally about £90/flight to upgrade short haul econ to Biz for BA Euro short haul. When I quote clients for travel, it’s always based on econ, but A) I consider £90 to be a bargain and B) it’s a tax write off, so it’s even more of a bargain.
She has though managed to acquire an absolutely visceral loathing of Iberian due to a flight she once took with them 20yrs ago. This is strong enough to persist to this day, so that she won’t tolerate the idea of Iberian - any class - even when they are the only really viable option to get down to a destination she wishes to go to.
As an aside - it’s generally about £90/flight to upgrade short haul econ to Biz for BA Euro short haul. When I quote clients for travel, it’s always based on econ, but A) I consider £90 to be a bargain and B) it’s a tax write off, so it’s even more of a bargain.
Another tip if your PAYE, You can claim that £90 upgrade fee as a work expenses and get it as a tax write off if your traveling for work.
https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/05/23/can-you-c...
40% back on upgrades? Yes please!
https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/05/23/can-you-c...
40% back on upgrades? Yes please!
pacenotes said:
Another tip if your PAYE, You can claim that £90 upgrade fee as a work expenses and get it as a tax write off if your traveling for work.
https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/05/23/can-you-c...
40% back on upgrades? Yes please!
Ah… who knew!https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/05/23/can-you-c...
40% back on upgrades? Yes please!
I can feel my Phoenix trip in July getting more comfortable already.
abzmike said:
pacenotes said:
Another tip if your PAYE, You can claim that £90 upgrade fee as a work expenses and get it as a tax write off if your traveling for work.
https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/05/23/can-you-c...
40% back on upgrades? Yes please!
Ah… who knew!https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/05/23/can-you-c...
40% back on upgrades? Yes please!
I can feel my Phoenix trip in July getting more comfortable already.
Gassing Station | Holidays & Travel | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff