Do you turn off phone on a flight because you are told to?
Discussion
captain_cynic said:
snuffy said:
captain_cynic said:
More over, they want you to pay attention to what you're doing when handling gallons of flammable liquids.
That's a classic example of working backwards from the solution in order to attempt to justify the non-existent problem.More of an example of things we've learned as we've gone along. As I've mentioned, the biggest danger we've found with mobile phones is distraction. This wasn't even considered 30 years ago before they were commonplace.
They changed their reason to suit their initial position.
This happens all the time; See covid for further details.
snuffy said:
Louis Balfour said:
snuffy said:
captain_cynic said:
More over, they want you to pay attention to what you're doing when handling gallons of flammable liquids.
That's a classic example of working backwards from the solution in order to attempt to justify the non-existent problem.
ks, so instead of admitting they were wrong in the face of the evidence, they instead dreamed up another reason (i.e. being districted) to justify their initial position (and by justify, I mean save face).snuffy said:
What I mean is that the petrol companies banned the use of mobiles on their forecourts, claiming it was because of explosion risk. Then that was then shown to be a load of bks, so instead of admitting they were wrong in the face of the evidence, they instead dreamed up another reason (i.e. being districted) to justify their initial position (and by justify, I mean save face).
No,ks, so instead of admitting they were wrong in the face of the evidence, they instead dreamed up another reason (i.e. being districted) to justify their initial position (and by justify, I mean save face).That is something people make up to justify being a t
t.Back in the 90s it was a real risk. As technology matureed that risk has diminished but we've discovered new things.
Such as people on the phone pouring petrol all over the forecourt because they were too busy on the phone to bother paying attention.
snuffy said:
captain_cynic said:
snuffy said:
captain_cynic said:
More over, they want you to pay attention to what you're doing when handling gallons of flammable liquids.
That's a classic example of working backwards from the solution in order to attempt to justify the non-existent problem.More of an example of things we've learned as we've gone along. As I've mentioned, the biggest danger we've found with mobile phones is distraction. This wasn't even considered 30 years ago before they were commonplace.
They changed their reason to suit their initial position.
This happens all the time; See covid for further details.
Using COVID as an excuse shows you have no idea what you're on about.
COVID is the perfect example of reacting to new information in an unknown (novel) situation. A really massive own goal there.
Just to elaborate. Initial positions weren't changed. Present and future positions were altered in response to new information.
captain_cynic said:
Such as people on the phone pouring petrol all over the forecourt because they were too busy on the phone to bother paying attention.
There are many things on a petrol forecourt to drag one's attention away from filling up. A mobile phone is probably well down the list of them.The most likely reason for spilt fuel remains, I would suggest, dodgy cut-offs on the pump.
Lots of people use their mobiles whilst filling up. As far as I am aware there has never been a case, anywhere in the world, where a petrol station was ignited with a mobile phone. Happy for you to prove me wrong.
captain_cynic said:
LoL...
Using COVID as an excuse shows you have no idea what you're on about.
COVID is the perfect example of reacting to new information in an unknown (novel) situation. A really massive own goal there.
Just to elaborate. Initial positions weren't changed. Present and future positions were altered in response to new information.
It's you that has no idea what you are on about.Using COVID as an excuse shows you have no idea what you're on about.
COVID is the perfect example of reacting to new information in an unknown (novel) situation. A really massive own goal there.
Just to elaborate. Initial positions weren't changed. Present and future positions were altered in response to new information.
When Covid first started, all sorts of wild claims where made. Then, when it was found to be nowhere near as bad as first claimed, the Government, instead of going "Thank God for that", they instead kept up their beyond stupid rules in order to justify their initial massive overreaction, because they last thing they wanted was to get the blame for said massive overreaction.
boyse7en said:
Griffith4ever said:
I'm quite surprised at the couple of hyper agressive rants on this thread when, pretty much every other response has been calm, measured, and honest. The general response seems to be, "sure, I've left it on, don't think about it much" rather than "f-you, I'll leave it on if I want to, Its my right!"
There are some very easily triggered folk on here.
The problem is that if you perceive a problem, then the casual "don't think about it much" is just as baffling or annoying as the more vitriolic response. There are some very easily triggered folk on here.
I don't see a problem with turning my phone off if asked to do so by the cabin crew. It's their plane, they probably know more about it than i do, and the impact to me is minimal so why wouldn't i comply with their request? Seems petty to try and think you are getting one over on the man, or somehow superior to the "sheep", by not turning it off.
Louis Balfour said:
captain_cynic said:
Such as people on the phone pouring petrol all over the forecourt because they were too busy on the phone to bother paying attention.
There are many things on a petrol forecourt to drag one's attention away from filling up. A mobile phone is probably well down the list of them.The most likely reason for spilt fuel remains, I would suggest, dodgy cut-offs on the pump.
Lots of people use their mobiles whilst filling up. As far as I am aware there has never been a case, anywhere in the world, where a petrol station was ignited with a mobile phone. Happy for you to prove me wrong.
There you go.
As for other distractions, they are nowhere near as bad as a mobile phone. As we've seen repeatedly people will drive right into the back of a car they're looking right at because they're too busy on their phone. A phone takes all of our attention, not just some of it.
Our brains are wired to prioritise communication and we get rewarded (dopamine) for it so we want to be distracted by phones.
A paper on the subject.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg...
captain_cynic said:
Louis Balfour said:
captain_cynic said:
Such as people on the phone pouring petrol all over the forecourt because they were too busy on the phone to bother paying attention.
There are many things on a petrol forecourt to drag one's attention away from filling up. A mobile phone is probably well down the list of them.The most likely reason for spilt fuel remains, I would suggest, dodgy cut-offs on the pump.
Lots of people use their mobiles whilst filling up. As far as I am aware there has never been a case, anywhere in the world, where a petrol station was ignited with a mobile phone. Happy for you to prove me wrong.
There you go.
As for other distractions, they are nowhere near as bad as a mobile phone. As we've seen repeatedly people will drive right into the back of a car they're looking right at because they're too busy on their phone. A phone takes all of our attention, not just some of it.
Our brains are wired to prioritise communication and we get rewarded (dopamine) for it so we want to be distracted by phones.
A paper on the subject.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg...
https://www.ukpia.com/consumer-information/mobile-...
"On occasion unsubstantiated reports emerge of mobile phones causing fires on petrol filling stations and other locations where flammable vapours are present. In fact, when research has been done into whether this has occurred (see the work of the Energy Institute), no evidence linking fires to mobile phone ignition has been found."
Louis Balfour said:
Nah.
https://www.ukpia.com/consumer-information/mobile-...
"On occasion unsubstantiated reports emerge of mobile phones causing fires on petrol filling stations and other locations where flammable vapours are present. In fact, when research has been done into whether this has occurred (see the work of the Energy Institute), no evidence linking fires to mobile phone ignition has been found."
I believe that the rules came from early petrol pumps (and possibly to this day) using a wireless link to the cashier. This link was easily swamped by CB radios and the like so radio stuff was banned from forecourts.https://www.ukpia.com/consumer-information/mobile-...
"On occasion unsubstantiated reports emerge of mobile phones causing fires on petrol filling stations and other locations where flammable vapours are present. In fact, when research has been done into whether this has occurred (see the work of the Energy Institute), no evidence linking fires to mobile phone ignition has been found."
BigBen said:
I believe that the rules came from early petrol pumps (and possibly to this day) using a wireless link to the cashier. This link was easily swamped by CB radios and the like so radio stuff was banned from forecourts.
Makes sense. I always assumed the rule was simply because people without a phone fill up quicker than those with a phone in their hand. Simple business throughput and therefore profitability being the main reason.
If telling some folk that there’s a risk of explosion means they spend less time faffing around at the fuel pump then we’d probably all agree it’s actually better for the world so let’s keep the little lie going…….
Bluemondy said:
Absolutely. Flight mode as soon as the engines start, or I'm told.
Can't really see why you wouldn't.
This - It's not like you're going to have signal anyway - why not just comply like a normal person? Can't really see why you wouldn't.
I have no idea if phones still mess with things, but remember how much e.g. old school Nokias used to mess with the radio when they rang. Even if modern phones don't, airlines can't be micromanaging punters into "well it's OK if it's on 4g" or whatever - they need a simple binary rule. Remember they can't even get w
kers in the security queue to understand that a 500ml bottle of shampoo is a liquid over 100ml....Griffith4ever said:
It's not really a thing any more, the interference. There isn't one documened case of it ever happening either. It started out of an abundance of caution. Old planes that might have been succeptible are no longer in service (with exceptions in far flung countries ). There are other concerns, the primary one being 100s of people swamping individual cell towers as they fly over them on take off and landing. That and the fact people need to concentrate in case of an emergency landing/take off incident.
I've left mine in a coat pocket overhead many times, to find it on when I've landed. Go on certain flights and everyone is texting and calling the moment the plane is low enough to to receive a signal. Crew used to enforce it tightly but I've not seen it mentioned in years. My only real concern is I want the people in my exit route to be aware of where they are going , which they miss if they are on their phones during the safety briefing.
I'm sure I read a recent article that they will be lifting the ban shortly.
Interference certainly was a problem in the early days of mobile phones. If you ever had a PC with speakers you knew when someone nearby was going to get a callI've left mine in a coat pocket overhead many times, to find it on when I've landed. Go on certain flights and everyone is texting and calling the moment the plane is low enough to to receive a signal. Crew used to enforce it tightly but I've not seen it mentioned in years. My only real concern is I want the people in my exit route to be aware of where they are going , which they miss if they are on their phones during the safety briefing.
I'm sure I read a recent article that they will be lifting the ban shortly.
https://youtu.be/x5ruAZ4Useg
It was sensible in the early days to ask people to turn off mobile phones because there wasn't enough data/evidence to show that it was safe.
Personally I'm glad airline take the cautious approach. It really isn't a major inconvenience.
snuffy said:
captain_cynic said:
LoL...
Using COVID as an excuse shows you have no idea what you're on about.
COVID is the perfect example of reacting to new information in an unknown (novel) situation. A really massive own goal there.
Just to elaborate. Initial positions weren't changed. Present and future positions were altered in response to new information.
It's you that has no idea what you are on about.Using COVID as an excuse shows you have no idea what you're on about.
COVID is the perfect example of reacting to new information in an unknown (novel) situation. A really massive own goal there.
Just to elaborate. Initial positions weren't changed. Present and future positions were altered in response to new information.
When Covid first started, all sorts of wild claims where made. Then, when it was found to be nowhere near as bad as first claimed, the Government, instead of going "Thank God for that", they instead kept up their beyond stupid rules in order to justify their initial massive overreaction, because they last thing they wanted was to get the blame for said massive overreaction.
Let’s not forget insisting on vaccine passports long after it was clear that the vaccinated could catch and spread Covid. A perfect example of continuing to enforce a rule that achieved sweet FA.
Back on topic - will usually put the device I’m using in airplane mode to conserve battery. There will be another device or two in my bag doing whatever it normally does.
snuffy said:
captain_cynic said:
LoL...
Using COVID as an excuse shows you have no idea what you're on about.
COVID is the perfect example of reacting to new information in an unknown (novel) situation. A really massive own goal there.
Just to elaborate. Initial positions weren't changed. Present and future positions were altered in response to new information.
It's you that has no idea what you are on about.Using COVID as an excuse shows you have no idea what you're on about.
COVID is the perfect example of reacting to new information in an unknown (novel) situation. A really massive own goal there.
Just to elaborate. Initial positions weren't changed. Present and future positions were altered in response to new information.
When Covid first started, all sorts of wild claims where made. Then, when it was found to be nowhere near as bad as first claimed, the Government, instead of going "Thank God for that", they instead kept up their beyond stupid rules in order to justify their initial massive overreaction, because they last thing they wanted was to get the blame for said massive overreaction.
Let’s not forget insisting on vaccine passports long after it was clear that the vaccinated could catch and spread Covid. A perfect example of continuing to enforce a rule that achieved sweet FA.
Back on topic - will usually put the device I’m using in airplane mode to conserve battery. There will be another device or two in my bag doing whatever it normally does.
The problem with 'phones left on inside an aircraft is that they go to maximum power squittering away trying to find a cell tower, hence why the battery drains so quickly if left on. Phones can interfere with small signal systems but the bigger problem is not the 'phone but the cell towers. 5G is a problem because the new frequency spectrum is right next to that for the radio altimeters (which are also a critical part part of the autoland system). If a beam steerable cell tower picks up a mobile phone squitter it provides service to it then the power of the cell tower at adjacent to radio altimeter frequencies can affect the radio altimeters and cause inaccurate altitude readings. It is reported as happening already at airports worldwide and has caused an industry wide aircraft modification program for any aircraft operated within or into US airspace. Sensible countries like France use non beam steerable cell towers that also 'point' downwards near airport approach paths, but the opposite is the US where they are using beam steerable towers and at higher power levels than are permitted near airports in Europe..
survivalist said:
snuffy said:
captain_cynic said:
LoL...
Using COVID as an excuse shows you have no idea what you're on about.
COVID is the perfect example of reacting to new information in an unknown (novel) situation. A really massive own goal there.
Just to elaborate. Initial positions weren't changed. Present and future positions were altered in response to new information.
It's you that has no idea what you are on about.Using COVID as an excuse shows you have no idea what you're on about.
COVID is the perfect example of reacting to new information in an unknown (novel) situation. A really massive own goal there.
Just to elaborate. Initial positions weren't changed. Present and future positions were altered in response to new information.
When Covid first started, all sorts of wild claims where made. Then, when it was found to be nowhere near as bad as first claimed, the Government, instead of going "Thank God for that", they instead kept up their beyond stupid rules in order to justify their initial massive overreaction, because they last thing they wanted was to get the blame for said massive overreaction.
Let’s not forget insisting on vaccine passports long after it was clear that the vaccinated could catch and spread Covid. A perfect example of continuing to enforce a rule that achieved sweet FA.
Back on topic - will usually put the device I’m using in airplane mode to conserve battery. There will be another device or two in my bag doing whatever it normally does.
Thanks for proving my point for me.
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