Spain & Portugal Road Trip - Where would you go?
Discussion
omniflow said:
Snipped out some of the OP - apologies, but those are bits I'm not going to cover in this post.
I have just booked the ferry trips for my 2024 trip doing pretty much the same thing, although we have 37 nights to fit everything in. I've not booked everything yet, but I do have an outline plan and here are my pointers.
Consider the Plymouth ferry too - it's much quicker and is a different experience to the Portsmouth boats. We're doing Plymouth out and Portsmouth back.
On the Portsmouth routes, you can book priority disembarkation if you have a premium cabin. This has only recently been introduced but should make a massive difference, particularly on the homeward leg. It's not available on the Pont Aven, which does the Plymouth route.
We always start in San Sebastian - it's a fabulous place. To stay, both the Sansebay and the Lasala Plaza are fabulous. To eat, just stroll around the old town eating Pintxos - we have our favourite bars, but part of the fun is discovering your own favourites
Logrono is an absolute must visit - try and make over a weekend for maximum fun. To stay, go for the Auriela Place - to eat, see above.
We are then following the coast - Gijon, A. Coruna, Porto, Lisbon. In Lisbon we're staying at the Corpo Santo - which was recommended by someone on here, and is a fabulous hotel. Between Porto and Lisbon there is Nazere - which (at the right time of year) has 100 foot high waves - the highest ever surfed.
I made a conscious choice to skip Santiago De Compostela - we may do this in a year or two as part of a "pilgrimage" on foot.
We're then doing Seville, Cadiz, Granada and somewhere on the coast for a few days - We've never been to any of these places, so that's all discovery.
Then it's Valencia - We've been a few times, but only during Fallas. This time we're going to see the place outside of Festival time. One restaurant I would definitely recommend is called Senia - near the Mercet Central - It's tiny, but the food is awesome. Hotel wise, the Caro is nice.
After that we're heading back to San Sebastian for a 2nd visit, via Zaragoza.
Barcelona is definitely worth a visit. Last time we went we stayed in the Wittmore. Lovely, but a bit pricey. Foodwise, Bar Canate is a 100% unmissable destination. There was another fantastic wine / tapas bar that the hotel recommended, but I can't for the life of me remember the name - I'll see if I can dig it out. We are definitely going to re-visit, but will do it as a separate City break - it was €45 / night to park the car - the same price as Venice.
In the Pyrenees, take a look at https://www.hotelvinasdelarrede.es/ - a lovely hotel run by a lovely couple. It's in the foothills, which may or may not suit your agenda.
As for where to retire to - I'd pick Valencia.
Thanks. More good advice. Ferry from Plymouth is one that I'd dismissed but will take another look at. It's a four hour trip vs. 30 mins for me, so bound to think twice about it.I have just booked the ferry trips for my 2024 trip doing pretty much the same thing, although we have 37 nights to fit everything in. I've not booked everything yet, but I do have an outline plan and here are my pointers.
Consider the Plymouth ferry too - it's much quicker and is a different experience to the Portsmouth boats. We're doing Plymouth out and Portsmouth back.
On the Portsmouth routes, you can book priority disembarkation if you have a premium cabin. This has only recently been introduced but should make a massive difference, particularly on the homeward leg. It's not available on the Pont Aven, which does the Plymouth route.
We always start in San Sebastian - it's a fabulous place. To stay, both the Sansebay and the Lasala Plaza are fabulous. To eat, just stroll around the old town eating Pintxos - we have our favourite bars, but part of the fun is discovering your own favourites
Logrono is an absolute must visit - try and make over a weekend for maximum fun. To stay, go for the Auriela Place - to eat, see above.
We are then following the coast - Gijon, A. Coruna, Porto, Lisbon. In Lisbon we're staying at the Corpo Santo - which was recommended by someone on here, and is a fabulous hotel. Between Porto and Lisbon there is Nazere - which (at the right time of year) has 100 foot high waves - the highest ever surfed.
I made a conscious choice to skip Santiago De Compostela - we may do this in a year or two as part of a "pilgrimage" on foot.
We're then doing Seville, Cadiz, Granada and somewhere on the coast for a few days - We've never been to any of these places, so that's all discovery.
Then it's Valencia - We've been a few times, but only during Fallas. This time we're going to see the place outside of Festival time. One restaurant I would definitely recommend is called Senia - near the Mercet Central - It's tiny, but the food is awesome. Hotel wise, the Caro is nice.
After that we're heading back to San Sebastian for a 2nd visit, via Zaragoza.
Barcelona is definitely worth a visit. Last time we went we stayed in the Wittmore. Lovely, but a bit pricey. Foodwise, Bar Canate is a 100% unmissable destination. There was another fantastic wine / tapas bar that the hotel recommended, but I can't for the life of me remember the name - I'll see if I can dig it out. We are definitely going to re-visit, but will do it as a separate City break - it was €45 / night to park the car - the same price as Venice.
In the Pyrenees, take a look at https://www.hotelvinasdelarrede.es/ - a lovely hotel run by a lovely couple. It's in the foothills, which may or may not suit your agenda.
As for where to retire to - I'd pick Valencia.
OK, ferries booked. The Plymouth out, Portsmouth in formula was a good tip as its just one night in both directions.
I thought I better get on with it as options for late Sept. seemed quite limited. I am quite fond of Brittany Ferries, but viewing options on their websites is hard work. With no other choice than those seats I had to book a 2-berth inside cabin and 4-berth on return. I only used a 2-berth inside cabin once before and said "never again". I'm not normally claustrophobic but it was close in there. I guess we will survive.
Their website claimed there is a 1 night sailing from Portsmouth and I could swear I have done it in the past. Have the boats got slower? When they say 'sailing'? If I wanted to spend two nights on a boat I'm not sure it would be in the Bay of Biscay. . .
Now to hotels. I love luxury hotels but on a budget this year so more suggestions welcome. I've always meant to do the parador thing - although I would guess they are normally towards the higher end?
Having got such good advice I'll do my best to document my trip for posterity and Pistonheads.
I thought I better get on with it as options for late Sept. seemed quite limited. I am quite fond of Brittany Ferries, but viewing options on their websites is hard work. With no other choice than those seats I had to book a 2-berth inside cabin and 4-berth on return. I only used a 2-berth inside cabin once before and said "never again". I'm not normally claustrophobic but it was close in there. I guess we will survive.
Their website claimed there is a 1 night sailing from Portsmouth and I could swear I have done it in the past. Have the boats got slower? When they say 'sailing'? If I wanted to spend two nights on a boat I'm not sure it would be in the Bay of Biscay. . .
Now to hotels. I love luxury hotels but on a budget this year so more suggestions welcome. I've always meant to do the parador thing - although I would guess they are normally towards the higher end?
Having got such good advice I'll do my best to document my trip for posterity and Pistonheads.
Edited by DickDasterdly on Monday 7th August 21:41
Edited by DickDasterdly on Monday 7th August 21:41
I stand by my hotel recommendations in my previous post on this thread.
Yes - the boats have got slower - there are 3 or 4 new boats on the Portsmouth routes and they're all what I consider "sub-optimal" - 2 nights on the outbound and only 3 premium cabins per boat. The Commodore Lounge is good value, but apart from that I prefer the older boats.
I've only ever stayed in one Parador - at Fuente De. It's very nice, but someone somewhere commented that they were all run like they were Council owned in the UK - which is definitely the impression I got when checking in. I would stay in one again, but not in preference to a decent hotel.
I've found prices to be very date and location specific. San Sebastian is definitely the most expensive place in Spain (Barcelona is a close second) - and then things like Film Festivals and Rugby tournaments can make a massive difference. Earlier this year we had to switch dates between San Sebastian and Logrono because hotels in San Sebastian were something like €700 / night because of a Rugby match. If you're going in September then the Film Festival may be a challenge.
Yes - the boats have got slower - there are 3 or 4 new boats on the Portsmouth routes and they're all what I consider "sub-optimal" - 2 nights on the outbound and only 3 premium cabins per boat. The Commodore Lounge is good value, but apart from that I prefer the older boats.
I've only ever stayed in one Parador - at Fuente De. It's very nice, but someone somewhere commented that they were all run like they were Council owned in the UK - which is definitely the impression I got when checking in. I would stay in one again, but not in preference to a decent hotel.
I've found prices to be very date and location specific. San Sebastian is definitely the most expensive place in Spain (Barcelona is a close second) - and then things like Film Festivals and Rugby tournaments can make a massive difference. Earlier this year we had to switch dates between San Sebastian and Logrono because hotels in San Sebastian were something like €700 / night because of a Rugby match. If you're going in September then the Film Festival may be a challenge.
Well I picked the brains of fellow Pistonheaders about a road trip to Spain and Portugal, and ended up having the best road trip I’ve ever had in a long motoring and biking career. Not something I expected long after what will come to be seen as the golden age of motoring. Believe me – it lives on on the Iberian peninsula – long after it died in England (I’ll give Scotland and Wales a bit of a pass for now – but the outlook is bad).
I was planning to repay the debt with a day-by-day write up of my trip – on the trip. I got a lot of info from this forum before I left, but couldn’t find out certain things, so having discovered them myself, I thought I really ought to share them.
But as it turned out – the holiday intervened. I wanted to create a video travelogue that I posted daily. I soon discovered that you can do this – or you can have a holiday – but you can’t have both. ‘Er outdoors reminded me of that quite a few times. . .
But I did take a bit of GoPro and drone footage – and as I discovered – too many portrait-format videos for the dreaded Instagram. I’ll post a couple of videos that cover different legs of this journey, but start with a day-by-day set of posts to cover the revelation that was driving around most of Spain and Portugal at the end of September.
I’ll cover subjects like ferries, tolls and toll tags, speed limits, speed cameras, and local policing and driving habits. Which type of Brits take their cars to Spain, what they take and where they take them. In most of Britain we now live largely in a society controlled by anti-car idealogues. And our roads are now way too crowded to enjoy driving on. So If you enjoy driving – go somewhere else and do it while you can. Based on my experience, there is nowhere better on the planet than the Iberian peninsula.
On those lines – something to ponder. In 2,500 miles in Spain and Portugal, I didn’t see a single Spanish or Portuguese-registered sportscar – let alone a supercar. The possible exception was a Triumph Spitfire on the Autovia between Salamanca and Valladolid. That car was one of 4 cars we encountered on the road between those towns when we left Salamanca at 8:00am on a Sunday morning. Four cars in 120km. That’s like encountering 4 cars between Birmingham and Manchester. We have the cars but not the roads. They have the roads but not the cars.
On the other hand, drive for an hour in Surrey and you will see a dozen or two Porsche 911s, there must be thousands registered in the county. I don’t know what people do with them, but whatever it is – it isn’t what they are designed for. It’s just not possible.
The car I took was my Porsche Cayman GTS 4.0. This probably isn’t the place to get into this particular debate, but the trip confirmed what a year of ownership had already demonstrated. The GTS is a practical Grand Tourer that comes alive on country roads. I nearly bought a GT4, but I’m certain the GTS was the right choice for me – and this kind of trip.
The trip had three purposes: 1. to find some good roads and drive them. 2. To try to familiarise ourselves a bit more with Iberia as a possible retirement destination and 3. Take a holiday (not always compatible with no. 1. For ‘er outdoors. . .) .
I was planning to repay the debt with a day-by-day write up of my trip – on the trip. I got a lot of info from this forum before I left, but couldn’t find out certain things, so having discovered them myself, I thought I really ought to share them.
But as it turned out – the holiday intervened. I wanted to create a video travelogue that I posted daily. I soon discovered that you can do this – or you can have a holiday – but you can’t have both. ‘Er outdoors reminded me of that quite a few times. . .
But I did take a bit of GoPro and drone footage – and as I discovered – too many portrait-format videos for the dreaded Instagram. I’ll post a couple of videos that cover different legs of this journey, but start with a day-by-day set of posts to cover the revelation that was driving around most of Spain and Portugal at the end of September.
I’ll cover subjects like ferries, tolls and toll tags, speed limits, speed cameras, and local policing and driving habits. Which type of Brits take their cars to Spain, what they take and where they take them. In most of Britain we now live largely in a society controlled by anti-car idealogues. And our roads are now way too crowded to enjoy driving on. So If you enjoy driving – go somewhere else and do it while you can. Based on my experience, there is nowhere better on the planet than the Iberian peninsula.
On those lines – something to ponder. In 2,500 miles in Spain and Portugal, I didn’t see a single Spanish or Portuguese-registered sportscar – let alone a supercar. The possible exception was a Triumph Spitfire on the Autovia between Salamanca and Valladolid. That car was one of 4 cars we encountered on the road between those towns when we left Salamanca at 8:00am on a Sunday morning. Four cars in 120km. That’s like encountering 4 cars between Birmingham and Manchester. We have the cars but not the roads. They have the roads but not the cars.
On the other hand, drive for an hour in Surrey and you will see a dozen or two Porsche 911s, there must be thousands registered in the county. I don’t know what people do with them, but whatever it is – it isn’t what they are designed for. It’s just not possible.
The car I took was my Porsche Cayman GTS 4.0. This probably isn’t the place to get into this particular debate, but the trip confirmed what a year of ownership had already demonstrated. The GTS is a practical Grand Tourer that comes alive on country roads. I nearly bought a GT4, but I’m certain the GTS was the right choice for me – and this kind of trip.
The trip had three purposes: 1. to find some good roads and drive them. 2. To try to familiarise ourselves a bit more with Iberia as a possible retirement destination and 3. Take a holiday (not always compatible with no. 1. For ‘er outdoors. . .) .
Edited by DickDasterdly on Wednesday 25th October 21:33
DickDasterdly said:
On those lines – something to ponder. In 2,500 miles in Spain and Portugal, I didn’t see a single Spanish or Portuguese-registered sportscar – let alone a supercar. The possible exception was a Triumph Spitfire on the Autovia between Salamanca and Valladolid. That car was one of 4 cars we encountered on the road between those towns when we left Salamanca at 8:00am on a Sunday morning. Four cars in 120km. That’s like encountering 4 cars between Birmingham and Manchester. We have the cars but not the roads. They have the roads but not the cars.
Both Spain and France limit HGV movement on Sunday's, I believe that a special permit is needed, but in general Spanish motorways (autopista) are both reasonably quiet and well behaved thoughout the week. They tend to be busier where they bypass larger towns and cities with local traffic using the motorway to bypass the town/city.Edited by DickDasterdly on Wednesday 25th October 21:33
Next weekend I will be driving from the Algarve to Dieppe, apart from about ten miles at the start, it will be toll free motorway all the way to the French border, about a day and a half!
So here we go with a bit of that travelogue.
Day 1. Getting to Spain and Ferries
Getting to Spain with your car has got harder. This fits in with a pattern of travelling becoming more and more of a horrible process rather than an adventure. The processing – especially at airports of course – has got more and more time-consuming and painful, and the planes haven’t got any faster. In fact, if you think about it – since the demise of Concorde – they have got slower. I flew from Heathrow to Frankfurt last week. Flight time 1hr 10 mins. Airport processing time: 4 hrs. No. of passport checks in a day: 8. Etc. etc.
As a veteran of several great motorcycling trips with mates to the Pyrenees a few years ago, I found Brittany Ferries website very confusing. Why does it take a 2-night trip from Portsmouth to get to Spain now – when it used to take one? And yet you can come back with a one-night trip.
Brittany Ferries are not forthcoming on this subject. There is much dissatisfaction about this, judging by ‘queue gossip’ at the ports and on board. Rumour has it is a ‘climate emergency’ - related move. Well I’m sure that the rest of the world, building coal-fuelled power stations like they weren’t remotely going out of fashion, will be very relieved to hear about Brittany Ferries initiative.
I have to say, if I wanted a cruise, I don’t think the Bay of Biscay in late September would be what I would look for. Especially as our crossing was so rough that walking about the boat felt actually dangerous at some points.
We did get to Spain with just one night at sea, but it meant getting up very early and driving to Plymouth. As we live 20 minutes from Portsmouth that is a pain. “You can get to Spain in a day – but only if you drive half way there first.”
Santander looked as dreek and grey as Plymouth when we arrived. Mid-morning though is a good time to begin a road trip and the weather soon looked a bit more Spanish. Pistonheaders had recommended Picos de Europa, (To the West of Santander and then turn inland). So that's what we did. This was an ideal first stopover, just 140km from the port. We turned off the motorway as soon as we could and headed back to the coast rocking up at the former fishing village of Commilas.
In my head we were going to drive directly to the seafront, park outside a small seafood restaurant and have lunch. And I wasn’t disappointed – that’s exactly what we did (try doing the same in say Padstow) .
We then proceeded to have one of the best meals I have had in my life, creating Tapas from a mixture of starter courses. The scallops were the best I’ve ever eaten. Fresh and still attached to their shells.
We failed to get the local parking machine to accept our foreign registration and buy a ticket. I have to say the casual vibe of the place obviously misled me a bit as when we returned the few metres from the restaurant we found a parking ticket on the windscreen. The penalty – a hefty €11.31 which I think even the meter guy must have realised they were unlikely to collect.
On then through the Cantabrian mountains to (literally) the end of the mountain road at Fuente Dé. There is a big typically austere-looking Parador here, under the cable car, but we chose to stay at the smaller Alpine Lodge-style Hotel Rebeco over the way. This gave me the perfect opportunity to film 3 TR6s leaving the Parador first thing the next morning. As we were to discover, these are the archetypal Brit drivers exploring Spain’s wonderful and varied northern mountains.
The drive up to Fuente Dé is pretty epic. The road runs initially up a gorge and the bends are very tight. A local utility van driven by the next Carlos Sainz overtaking us on a blind curve had us laughing out loud. Best let him go. The most rewarding part of the road which we did in splendid isolation, is the stretch after the last traffic has melted away after Potes. The last 15km or so up to Fuente Dé are what you came for – or what I did. Sublime mountain roads – always best to climb as every car handles better uphill – and I could let the flat-6 sing which I can’t at home.
Fuente Dé is at about 2,000m, and the cable car take you up nearly another 1,000m. But it does provide a great launch pad for hiking in the peaks. The same weather we enjoyed on the way to Plymouth and that followed us across the Bay of Biscay trailed a front down almost from Scotland to Africa, and the weather was light drizzle, and the following morning about 10 deg. C. It’s worth remembering the mountain climate.
Day 1. Getting to Spain and Ferries
Getting to Spain with your car has got harder. This fits in with a pattern of travelling becoming more and more of a horrible process rather than an adventure. The processing – especially at airports of course – has got more and more time-consuming and painful, and the planes haven’t got any faster. In fact, if you think about it – since the demise of Concorde – they have got slower. I flew from Heathrow to Frankfurt last week. Flight time 1hr 10 mins. Airport processing time: 4 hrs. No. of passport checks in a day: 8. Etc. etc.
As a veteran of several great motorcycling trips with mates to the Pyrenees a few years ago, I found Brittany Ferries website very confusing. Why does it take a 2-night trip from Portsmouth to get to Spain now – when it used to take one? And yet you can come back with a one-night trip.
Brittany Ferries are not forthcoming on this subject. There is much dissatisfaction about this, judging by ‘queue gossip’ at the ports and on board. Rumour has it is a ‘climate emergency’ - related move. Well I’m sure that the rest of the world, building coal-fuelled power stations like they weren’t remotely going out of fashion, will be very relieved to hear about Brittany Ferries initiative.
I have to say, if I wanted a cruise, I don’t think the Bay of Biscay in late September would be what I would look for. Especially as our crossing was so rough that walking about the boat felt actually dangerous at some points.
We did get to Spain with just one night at sea, but it meant getting up very early and driving to Plymouth. As we live 20 minutes from Portsmouth that is a pain. “You can get to Spain in a day – but only if you drive half way there first.”
Santander looked as dreek and grey as Plymouth when we arrived. Mid-morning though is a good time to begin a road trip and the weather soon looked a bit more Spanish. Pistonheaders had recommended Picos de Europa, (To the West of Santander and then turn inland). So that's what we did. This was an ideal first stopover, just 140km from the port. We turned off the motorway as soon as we could and headed back to the coast rocking up at the former fishing village of Commilas.
In my head we were going to drive directly to the seafront, park outside a small seafood restaurant and have lunch. And I wasn’t disappointed – that’s exactly what we did (try doing the same in say Padstow) .
We then proceeded to have one of the best meals I have had in my life, creating Tapas from a mixture of starter courses. The scallops were the best I’ve ever eaten. Fresh and still attached to their shells.
We failed to get the local parking machine to accept our foreign registration and buy a ticket. I have to say the casual vibe of the place obviously misled me a bit as when we returned the few metres from the restaurant we found a parking ticket on the windscreen. The penalty – a hefty €11.31 which I think even the meter guy must have realised they were unlikely to collect.
On then through the Cantabrian mountains to (literally) the end of the mountain road at Fuente Dé. There is a big typically austere-looking Parador here, under the cable car, but we chose to stay at the smaller Alpine Lodge-style Hotel Rebeco over the way. This gave me the perfect opportunity to film 3 TR6s leaving the Parador first thing the next morning. As we were to discover, these are the archetypal Brit drivers exploring Spain’s wonderful and varied northern mountains.
The drive up to Fuente Dé is pretty epic. The road runs initially up a gorge and the bends are very tight. A local utility van driven by the next Carlos Sainz overtaking us on a blind curve had us laughing out loud. Best let him go. The most rewarding part of the road which we did in splendid isolation, is the stretch after the last traffic has melted away after Potes. The last 15km or so up to Fuente Dé are what you came for – or what I did. Sublime mountain roads – always best to climb as every car handles better uphill – and I could let the flat-6 sing which I can’t at home.
Fuente Dé is at about 2,000m, and the cable car take you up nearly another 1,000m. But it does provide a great launch pad for hiking in the peaks. The same weather we enjoyed on the way to Plymouth and that followed us across the Bay of Biscay trailed a front down almost from Scotland to Africa, and the weather was light drizzle, and the following morning about 10 deg. C. It’s worth remembering the mountain climate.
Edited by DickDasterdly on Friday 3rd November 19:38
Colour of your GTS looks similar to your car from wacky races. Nice choice!
Thanks for sharing details of the trip. Something I would love to do at some point.
If you live in the South East in the U.K. it is pretty frustrating owning a car (and increasingly a bike). So few opportunities of using them.
I spent a few years in NZ and the roads there were great. Similar to your description, once I was far enough away from Auckland I could find roads which were nearly empty, but still wide and with reasonable surfaces (I was on a Tuono).
Have you looked into the practicalities of retiring to Spain post Brexit? Or are you lucky enough to have an EU passport?
We always had it in the back of our minds pre Brexit as an option but I am not so sure now. Presumably whilst you are young and health insurance is achievable then it is okay but what if you develop chronic illnesses.
In terms of places to retire, we like Sevilla a lot but I think it would be too hot. Our favourite city is Barcelona but it is a lot more expensive - plus I’m not sure about Catalan. It has taken me long enough to get to where I can with Castilian.
Thanks for sharing details of the trip. Something I would love to do at some point.
If you live in the South East in the U.K. it is pretty frustrating owning a car (and increasingly a bike). So few opportunities of using them.
I spent a few years in NZ and the roads there were great. Similar to your description, once I was far enough away from Auckland I could find roads which were nearly empty, but still wide and with reasonable surfaces (I was on a Tuono).
Have you looked into the practicalities of retiring to Spain post Brexit? Or are you lucky enough to have an EU passport?
We always had it in the back of our minds pre Brexit as an option but I am not so sure now. Presumably whilst you are young and health insurance is achievable then it is okay but what if you develop chronic illnesses.
In terms of places to retire, we like Sevilla a lot but I think it would be too hot. Our favourite city is Barcelona but it is a lot more expensive - plus I’m not sure about Catalan. It has taken me long enough to get to where I can with Castilian.
Brilliant - love a good European road trip (we’ve done a few over the years). Always quite fancied Northern Spain & Portugal so following this with interest.
The parking fines are a bargain compared to our country (we got one in Zadar, Croatia this September) - I know I put the ticket on the dash in our hire car but nothing there when the meter guy was writing the ticket. €11 fine which we did pay but I’m sure there was no way of getting us if it was our own car!
The parking fines are a bargain compared to our country (we got one in Zadar, Croatia this September) - I know I put the ticket on the dash in our hire car but nothing there when the meter guy was writing the ticket. €11 fine which we did pay but I’m sure there was no way of getting us if it was our own car!
Skeptisk said:
Colour of your GTS looks similar to your car from wacky races. Nice choice!
Thanks for sharing details of the trip. Something I would love to do at some point.
If you live in the South East in the U.K. it is pretty frustrating owning a car (and increasingly a bike). So few opportunities of using them.
I spent a few years in NZ and the roads there were great. Similar to your description, once I was far enough away from Auckland I could find roads which were nearly empty, but still wide and with reasonable surfaces (I was on a Tuono).
Have you looked into the practicalities of retiring to Spain post Brexit? Or are you lucky enough to have an EU passport?
We always had it in the back of our minds pre Brexit as an option but I am not so sure now. Presumably whilst you are young and health insurance is achievable then it is okay but what if you develop chronic illnesses.
In terms of places to retire, we like Sevilla a lot but I think it would be too hot. Our favourite city is Barcelona but it is a lot more expensive - plus I’m not sure about Catalan. It has taken me long enough to get to where I can with Castilian.
The trip was partly a bit of recce for retirement - we went on through Portugal to the Algarve and round to the Costa de Sol. Brexit hasn't really helped with that, but options are easing up it seems as the Med countries realise that they would still like to patriate some of those UK retirees' money. The funny thing is that I came back thinking I'd like to start a new business - guided tours around Spain and Portugal. That I think would be a great way to 'retire'. Thanks for sharing details of the trip. Something I would love to do at some point.
If you live in the South East in the U.K. it is pretty frustrating owning a car (and increasingly a bike). So few opportunities of using them.
I spent a few years in NZ and the roads there were great. Similar to your description, once I was far enough away from Auckland I could find roads which were nearly empty, but still wide and with reasonable surfaces (I was on a Tuono).
Have you looked into the practicalities of retiring to Spain post Brexit? Or are you lucky enough to have an EU passport?
We always had it in the back of our minds pre Brexit as an option but I am not so sure now. Presumably whilst you are young and health insurance is achievable then it is okay but what if you develop chronic illnesses.
In terms of places to retire, we like Sevilla a lot but I think it would be too hot. Our favourite city is Barcelona but it is a lot more expensive - plus I’m not sure about Catalan. It has taken me long enough to get to where I can with Castilian.
DickDasterdly said:
The trip was partly a bit of recce for retirement - we went on through Portugal to the Algarve and round to the Costa de Sol. Brexit hasn't really helped with that, but options are easing up it seems as the Med countries realise that they would still like to patriate some of those UK retirees' money. The funny thing is that I came back thinking I'd like to start a new business - guided tours around Spain and Portugal. That I think would be a great way to 'retire'.
Did you come to any decision? Today is my last full day of this holiday in Portugal, part of a long-running excuse to mooch around the Iberian peninsula looking at regions both in and out of season, to try and find somewhere that appeals with a view to retirement. DickDasterdly said:
As a veteran of several great motorcycling trips with mates to the Pyrenees a few years ago, I found Brittany Ferries website very confusing. Why does it take a 2-night trip from Portsmouth to get to Spain now – when it used to take one? And yet you can come back with a one-night trip.
I have also done the "old" Portsmouth - Santander trip on Pont Aven and did the "new" trip on Santoña in September and had wondered the same. I think I've come up with a plausible answer...For the purpose of examples I'll say that you leave Portsmouth on a Monday and leave Santander on the return on a Wednesday. On all the ferries I noticed that the vast majority of vehicles are UK registered so most travellers are Brits going to Iberia so Brittany Ferries are wanting to optimise the timings for these people.
The old ferry would leave Portsmouth at about 15:30 on a Monday and arrive in Santander at about 20:00 on Tuesday. As most passengers would be going further than just the Santander area and be heading on to more southern areas of Spain or into Portugal they would probably book B&B in the Santander area for the first night, particularly as weather in the Bay of Biscay could mean that arrival in Santander might be delayed (happened to us once: the other trip was on time). This would mean that they were only really getting on the road at after breakfast on Wednesday.
The new ferries are slightly slower than than the old ones so if they were to leave Portsmouth at the same time as the old ones they would be getting into Santander between 23:00 on Tuesday and 01:00 on Wednesday with the same possibilities for weather delays. You'd still want a B&B but it isn't ideal turning up for this in the small hours and then getting less sleep before setting off on the road trip. Instead, the ferry leaves Porstmouth at 21:30 on Monday and arrives in Santander at 08:00 on Wednesday. You can then drive off the ferry and are on the road for the onward journey at the same time as you would have been with the "old" times but without needing B&B in Santander. The ferry could possibly go a bit faster on the way out but there is no point in arriving in Santander before 08:00 so why not go a bit slower and save fuel? With a (short) first evening on board plus a full day and then breakfast on the Wednesday, Brittany Ferries also get the chance to sell more food and drink.
I don't remember tthe exact times of the old return ferries but the new ones leave Santander at 13:00 on Wednesday and get to Portsmouth at 20:00 on Thursday. As most passengers will be getting to the ferry port after a driving holiday in Spain/Portugal they are probably going to be in B&B in Santander on the night before the ferry anyway. Setting the departure time so that arrival in Portsmouth is at 20:00 means that when you get off the ferry most people can be in their own bed by about 02:00 on Friday if they live anywhere south of Manchester. So no B&B required on the return leg.
I had also wondered about the changed times and the "2 nights out/1 night back" logic but I think it makes sense where most of the passengers are Brits doing a driving holiday in Iberia. (I realise that if in a motorhome or towing a caravan other options are available apart from B&B).
Well that looks like a pretty good analysis @douglasb and like you say - sounds plausible.
Having said that, our return ferry (Monday) left at 2:00pm. We had stayed over in Salamanca in central Spain and had plenty of time to catch the ferry. We had a relaxed drive and arrived in plenty of time - something you really can rely on in Spain.
It arrived in Portsmouth at 5:30 and we were home by 6:30. So the sailing time on the return leg was less than 29 hours. So if a ferry left Portsmouth at say 9:00am, it would arrive in Santander at about 3:00pm (given you 'lose' an hour). This would allow a lot of people to make it well into Spain if they were heading away from the north coast (a lot of people aren't judging by conversations we had.)
I know that wouldn't suit all travellers - but it would suit me well. I quite like the Brittany Ferries operation, but 2 days on board to get out is just too much for me. I get cabin fever after one. If we do it again, I will reluctantly schlepp down to Plymouth to avoid it again.
Having said that, our return ferry (Monday) left at 2:00pm. We had stayed over in Salamanca in central Spain and had plenty of time to catch the ferry. We had a relaxed drive and arrived in plenty of time - something you really can rely on in Spain.
It arrived in Portsmouth at 5:30 and we were home by 6:30. So the sailing time on the return leg was less than 29 hours. So if a ferry left Portsmouth at say 9:00am, it would arrive in Santander at about 3:00pm (given you 'lose' an hour). This would allow a lot of people to make it well into Spain if they were heading away from the north coast (a lot of people aren't judging by conversations we had.)
I know that wouldn't suit all travellers - but it would suit me well. I quite like the Brittany Ferries operation, but 2 days on board to get out is just too much for me. I get cabin fever after one
. If we do it again, I will reluctantly schlepp down to Plymouth to avoid it again.For my major road trip in the summer (Germany -> Austria -> Italy -> Corsica -> Spain -> Home) I had the grand plan of taking a photo every day to illustrate a travelogue. I managed the first day with a picture of the funnels on the ferry from Harwich -> Hook of Holland and then it just sort of didn't happen after that. Well done for what you've done so far.
omniflow said:
Are we getting any more instalments of the Travelogue?
I, for one, am definitely interested to hear more.
TIA
You can check out my recent "Spain and Portugal in a Cayman" roadtrip while you're waiting! I, for one, am definitely interested to hear more.
TIA
Starts about half way down the page:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
seefarr said:
You can check out my recent "Spain and Portugal in a Cayman" roadtrip while you're waiting!
Starts about half way down the page:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Starts about half way down the page:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
DD, I love reading about a good road trip, looking forward to your future installments.
I’ve often thought a good topic would be ‘member’s first road trip’; something along the lines of:
When/duration
Where to
Car/bike, manufacturer and model
Accommodation
Any memories/incidents
However, my first road trip was done as a student in a shed and no pictures; therefore I’m not the right person to start such a thread.
I’ve often thought a good topic would be ‘member’s first road trip’; something along the lines of:
When/duration
Where to
Car/bike, manufacturer and model
Accommodation
Any memories/incidents
However, my first road trip was done as a student in a shed and no pictures; therefore I’m not the right person to start such a thread.
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