"There is no heaven; it's a fairy story"
Discussion
55allgold said:
As for Believers, there's no point arguing with them about the existence of Heaven. It's like trying to nail jelly to the ceiling. Instead, get them to imagine their afterlife in Heaven. It's all bonkers.
Which 'you' is it that goes to Heaven: 'you' as the optimistic young adult you used to be? Or 'you' as the cantankerous middle-aged grump you were when you died? Or 'you' as a senile-demetia-ridden husk of a person?
Are your dead children there? Unformed and immature? Do you meet them? Do you feel loss when you find your loved ones aren't there because Himself decided they were bad? If you die before the love of your life, and later remarry, what happens when you ascend to Heaven and meet her again. Does libido exist in heaven? What does everyone do all day? Is Worship required? Doesn't that non-stop Worship thing wear a bit thin after a few hundred years? Are there thrills to be had? Can you opt out if it's not what you expected? If the - is afterlife is not worth living?
Or is that all moot - because your free will disappears upon your ascent to Heaven? Because if it does, you ('you' meaning who you are right now) clearly don't go to Heaven at all. What it is that is 'you' has been thrown away at the Pearly Gates, and only a pale shadow of your true self gets let in.
Doesn't sound like Heaven to me.
good post Which 'you' is it that goes to Heaven: 'you' as the optimistic young adult you used to be? Or 'you' as the cantankerous middle-aged grump you were when you died? Or 'you' as a senile-demetia-ridden husk of a person?
Are your dead children there? Unformed and immature? Do you meet them? Do you feel loss when you find your loved ones aren't there because Himself decided they were bad? If you die before the love of your life, and later remarry, what happens when you ascend to Heaven and meet her again. Does libido exist in heaven? What does everyone do all day? Is Worship required? Doesn't that non-stop Worship thing wear a bit thin after a few hundred years? Are there thrills to be had? Can you opt out if it's not what you expected? If the - is afterlife is not worth living?
Or is that all moot - because your free will disappears upon your ascent to Heaven? Because if it does, you ('you' meaning who you are right now) clearly don't go to Heaven at all. What it is that is 'you' has been thrown away at the Pearly Gates, and only a pale shadow of your true self gets let in.
Doesn't sound like Heaven to me.
surley it tells us what its like in the handy little hand book that is the word of god himself and not loads of other people over hundreds of years taking bits out and adding other bits.
k does this need to be reported?BarnatosGhost said:
Dundarach - I come in peace...no aggro.
How long have you been Christian? Why did you choose Christianity over the alternatives? Were your parents also Christians, and if so, do you consider that a coincidence?
I've been a Christian about 7 years.How long have you been Christian? Why did you choose Christianity over the alternatives? Were your parents also Christians, and if so, do you consider that a coincidence?
Tried Buddhism, loved the meditation.
Was atheistic into my 30's
No parents had no interest, nor do any friends, nor did first wife..!
Saw my dad die at 49 from a heart attack in front of me when I was 20, that might have affected me- humph!, however didn't get any spiritual moment or anything.
So my story is:
Was about 31, recently single, happy enough, new girlfriend
Went for a Tarot card reading and was telling woman at work, who I knew was a Christian to bait her I guess
She asked - do they work - I thought I'd be clever and say Yes
She replied, Yes the certainly work, but let me ask you - where does the information come from - couldn't answer
And that got me talking
So read a bit, made a great deal of sense
Happy to discuss my faith, love to be challenged and challenge others. Happy in knowledge that as a follower of Christ, he encouraged people to ask and challenge him.
I wouldn't give the time of day to any Christian who didn't want to be challenged...
Pesty said:
tell me about dinosaurs and why they dont fit with the 7 days of creation story
Quite right if you read the 7 days as 7 days, I guess I read this as a description of creation for example stage 1, 2 etc...I know that is me fitting evidence around belief, which blows me out of the water, however interesting watching that Morgan Freeman - Through the wormhole, Scientist were describing the Big Bang - the current Hawking theory isn't it, in the form of stages...
Stage 1 - compression
Stage 2 - explosion
Stage 3 - cooling
Stage 4 - gathering together as matter...
and so on - something like that don't quote me folks...
And also the approved science theory is everything from nothing.
And the approved Christian theory is everything from nothing - doh!
Sorry just wanted to add - what really twists my mind is that the Christian theory was written in a time were no-one would believe something from nothing and yet that's what they claimed...
Edited by dundarach on Monday 16th May 21:46
Ben3883 said:
dundarach said:
It is however my right to believe and not to be made to defend myself to someone who can offer no other evidence to the contrary.
Well said. Regards
DefinitelynotGodSquad, but a huge supporter of the freedom to believe whatever works for you, without being persecuted by smart-arses or nutters from either extreme.
an ex-Catholic
Sorry you have lost me.
Are you saying something like Day 1 was 100,000 years? etc etc
Thats a new one on me and anyway if that is the case why not just say that and maybe people like me would belive.
because to be honest it makes more sense to me that when the people made up all this stuff years ago they never knew they existed so didn't know that they were not around the same time as man.
Are you saying something like Day 1 was 100,000 years? etc etc
Thats a new one on me and anyway if that is the case why not just say that and maybe people like me would belive.
because to be honest it makes more sense to me that when the people made up all this stuff years ago they never knew they existed so didn't know that they were not around the same time as man.
dundarach said:
Went for a Tarot card reading and was telling woman at work, who I knew was a Christian to bait her I guess
She asked - do they work - I thought I'd be clever and say Yes
She replied, Yes the certainly work, but let me ask you - where does the information come from - couldn't answer
And that got me talking
So read a bit, made a great deal of sense
You turned religious because someone managed to fool you with Tarot cards? She asked - do they work - I thought I'd be clever and say Yes
She replied, Yes the certainly work, but let me ask you - where does the information come from - couldn't answer
And that got me talking
So read a bit, made a great deal of sense
You know that's what these people do, right?
Challenged all right - Mentally challenged (or genius work of trolling. )
Loves ufo stories too I bet
Loves ufo stories too I bet
dundarach said:
I've been a Christian about 7 years.
Tried Buddhism, loved the meditation.
Was atheistic into my 30's
No parents had no interest, nor do any friends, nor did first wife..!
Saw my dad die at 49 from a heart attack in front of me when I was 20, that might have affected me- humph!, however didn't get any spiritual moment or anything.
So my story is:
Was about 31, recently single, happy enough, new girlfriend
Went for a Tarot card reading and was telling woman at work, who I knew was a Christian to bait her I guess
She asked - do they work - I thought I'd be clever and say Yes
She replied, Yes the certainly work, but let me ask you - where does the information come from - couldn't answer
And that got me talking
So read a bit, made a great deal of sense
Happy to discuss my faith, love to be challenged and challenge others. Happy in knowledge that as a follower of Christ, he encouraged people to ask and challenge him.
I wouldn't give the time of day to any Christian who didn't want to be challenged...
Tried Buddhism, loved the meditation.
Was atheistic into my 30's
No parents had no interest, nor do any friends, nor did first wife..!
Saw my dad die at 49 from a heart attack in front of me when I was 20, that might have affected me- humph!, however didn't get any spiritual moment or anything.
So my story is:
Was about 31, recently single, happy enough, new girlfriend
Went for a Tarot card reading and was telling woman at work, who I knew was a Christian to bait her I guess
She asked - do they work - I thought I'd be clever and say Yes
She replied, Yes the certainly work, but let me ask you - where does the information come from - couldn't answer
And that got me talking
So read a bit, made a great deal of sense
Happy to discuss my faith, love to be challenged and challenge others. Happy in knowledge that as a follower of Christ, he encouraged people to ask and challenge him.
I wouldn't give the time of day to any Christian who didn't want to be challenged...
W00DY said:
So you're a believer because you couldn't figure out how Tarot cards work?
What made you want to get a reading (or whatever it's called)?
I think he said they work just to annoy the woman by his post, which I guess meant he didnt think they did, yet she through him a curve ball and said said yes they do and he forgot they don't.What made you want to get a reading (or whatever it's called)?
don't get any of it to be honest. He sounds like somebody needing of something hence the budism etc etc and was just won over because he wanted to belive something.
He is free to belive what he wasn't but by his posts I find his reasons susspect if not unsurprising.
Pesty said:
Sorry you have lost me.
Are you saying something like Day 1 was 100,000 years? etc etc
Thats a new one on me and anyway if that is the case why not just say that and maybe people like me would belive.
because to be honest it makes more sense to me that when the people made up all this stuff years ago they never knew they existed so didn't know that they were not around the same time as man.
No not saying that at all, what I'm saying is that creation, however it happened Science or Creation is a very complex thing to describe....the scientists struggled on the TVAre you saying something like Day 1 was 100,000 years? etc etc
Thats a new one on me and anyway if that is the case why not just say that and maybe people like me would belive.
because to be honest it makes more sense to me that when the people made up all this stuff years ago they never knew they existed so didn't know that they were not around the same time as man.
Now just for one moment - go with me - you're god, standing on a mountain, explaining all this to Moses, a guy by modern standards, not very well travelled or educated in the ways of the universe....
Are you going to try and explain string theory, worm holes, 100 billion galaxies, dark matter, gravity etc etc etc
Or are you going to say, in the beginning was nothing (the word) and the word created everything...I did it in stages, first heavens, then planets, the atmosphere (but he would need that simpler - air) then amino acids (water) then organisms (plants and animals) then evolution (man)
So a staged - evolution approach, describing the big bang, to a simple man on a hill - several thousand years ago - all there in the genesis right at the start....!
And guys - go read my first post about attacking me - stop proving my point over and over again - I'm not a troll, been around this site for a while now - I'm entitled to a believe - yours is just as unprovable as mine remember....
Lets discuss this like adults, or alternatively call me names like children!!!!
Lets discuss this like adults, or alternatively call me names like children!!!!
Someone passed this thought to me recently...A man called Jesus was persecuted and killed, he then somehow rose from the dead a few days later.
The Catholic church has a ritual where they eat of his flesh and drink of his blood.....
BLOODY VAMPIRES I CALL EM!
Silver bullets all round eh!
The Catholic church has a ritual where they eat of his flesh and drink of his blood.....
BLOODY VAMPIRES I CALL EM!
Silver bullets all round eh!
hmmm convienient so men back then were not ready to understand. Therefore he skipped bits so not to blow there minds and thought he would leave out teh dinos and astroids etc etc
great well we are a bit better at these things now, why does he not pop down and fill us in? we would be able to accept the answer now
great well we are a bit better at these things now, why does he not pop down and fill us in? we would be able to accept the answer now
Pesty said:
W00DY said:
So you're a believer because you couldn't figure out how Tarot cards work?
What made you want to get a reading (or whatever it's called)?
I think he said they work just to annoy the woman by his post, which I guess meant he didnt think they did, yet she through him a curve ball and said said yes they do and he forgot they don't.What made you want to get a reading (or whatever it's called)?
don't get any of it to be honest. He sounds like somebody needing of something hence the budism etc etc and was just won over because he wanted to belive something.
He is free to belive what he wasn't but by his posts I find his reasons susspect if not unsurprising.
Can I ask in all seriousness - have you ever done anything other than dismiss religion?
Pesty said:
hmmm convienient so men back then were not ready to understand. Therefore he skipped bits so not to blow there minds and thought he would leave out teh dinos and astroids etc etc
great well we are a bit better at these things now, why does he not pop down and fill us in? we would be able to accept the answer now
Convenient sure enough - not telling you anything, just discussing, however interesting all the same. You asked and I explained what I think. great well we are a bit better at these things now, why does he not pop down and fill us in? we would be able to accept the answer now
And why does he need to pop down? What would he gain by convincing you, seriously why do you feel if there is a God he should come and tell you?
Sorry hope that doesn't sound aggressive...
Pesty said:
dundarach said:
Can I ask in all seriousness - have you ever done anything other than dismiss religion?
Sorry can you be more specific? I think it's just a bit ignorant to dismiss something, simply because you have no interest - I have no interest in BMW's however to say they're crap would be wrong - I've owned a few as company cars, however have no interest, but fully understand why other people would have....
However never driven a porsche can't comment without sounding like a fool on what they're like to drive....
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