Has anyone used a private detective?
Discussion
FWIW I understand what ABD wanted to do with the name thing,a datum point or reference if you like, a point from which he knew all the answers and would tell the second she deviated from the truth. She failed from the start and unfortunately cannot rewind from this
Once again, best of luck ABD and keep strong for both you and the kids
Once again, best of luck ABD and keep strong for both you and the kids
Ali_D said:
..... If you believe that in ten years time you'll be able to look back and think you did the right thing then its probably the right thing to do.
Thanks for that, very pertinent to me at the moDu1point8 said:
Why would living together and having an open relationship be in any way good?
The kids then would see OP/Wife with other people instead of them being together and to think that kind of existence is ok... So not only are you going to live a lie for the kids until they leave home and you separate anyways to find someone you want to be with, but counselling for the kids will be expensive too.
Might as well just have houses nearby and 50:50 custardy of the kids, it would be a much more sane idea than OP crying into his pillow whilst listening to A pleasuring his wife at night, that OP still kind of has feelings for... All for the open relationship and stay together theory.
I find it odd that's how you think open relationships work.The kids then would see OP/Wife with other people instead of them being together and to think that kind of existence is ok... So not only are you going to live a lie for the kids until they leave home and you separate anyways to find someone you want to be with, but counselling for the kids will be expensive too.
Might as well just have houses nearby and 50:50 custardy of the kids, it would be a much more sane idea than OP crying into his pillow whilst listening to A pleasuring his wife at night, that OP still kind of has feelings for... All for the open relationship and stay together theory.
Friends are in one. Mummy and Daddy both have the kind of jobs whereby each travel a lot 'on business', and often their other partners accompany too.
Neither would dream of nailing their other partners in the family home with the children around.
Their children (both under ten) are the nicest, most well-adjusted children I know. Probably because their parents aren't constantly at each other's throats and put their childrens needs first.
Such an 'arrangement' takes a great deal of emotional maturity on all sides, not to mention the affluence to fund it all, but I'd be prepared to bet it's more common than many may think.
I wouldn't think it's possible to patch things up.
I guess when ABD is giving his wife some decent knobing, then he wouldn't be able to stop thinking some other bloke has had his knob in there also.
Kinda' put a damper on the whole thing.
Now the trust has been broken, I would say it's time to move on.
vette
I guess when ABD is giving his wife some decent knobing, then he wouldn't be able to stop thinking some other bloke has had his knob in there also.
Kinda' put a damper on the whole thing.
Now the trust has been broken, I would say it's time to move on.
vette
I experienced almost the same as OP, except it happened twice now. We lived together for 15 years, married 8 years ago. I thought I was lucky, and my only marital demand was 'no cheating'.
1,5 years ago she wouldn't come home for a couple of nights, acting suspiciously, becoming aggressive at any asked question, but declined cheating. At first this was ok as I completely trusted her, but there are limits. A quick investigation revealed her to be a new-born lesbian, which I would never suspect. It literally broke my heart (on pills since then). Somehow the cheat effect was amplified by this perversity. Now I'm not homophobic (in fact couldn't care less at the time) but to put it in my shoes... It just felt so wrong. Besides, she wanted to take our kid to her partner. That was too much for me.
After a couple of days I decided to protect my family and get her back, despite of reluctance and 'love' for her partner, thinking through any given choice. The plan was to show her my care and attempt to explain what I felt was wrong and how we can live together after that. In fact I treated her as ill, which turned out to be partially true - she was diagnosed with serious thyroid disorder. All I can say it was hard for both of us, but I was thinking then we could go through this with trust (and medical treatment). It took me a year to recover and to truly start enjoying our life.
And then it happened again, just a week ago I found out that she has a partner, a married man she works with. She again started to come home late. Well, you know, same kind of story, only this time her conspiration was much stronger. I asked her to be honest for at least this time, and she declined cheating again. A day of putting together small facts and some internet homework and voila. Only this time I took it much easier and don’t want to resume our relation at all. I think it's good that I forgave her the first time, but enough is enough. Those who betrayed once will betray again.
So we separated, I put together all her dirt, which gives me a room to move if our case will go through the court and met her yesterday with a programme I came up with:
• Our only common interest is our son
• He must be happy and protected of emotional traumas at all possible costs
• We do not present him with another mom/dad, there's only one dad and one mom
• We spend roughly equal time with him
• We schedule and agree our time with him a few days before
• We both spend equal parts of our income on his basic needs (living, studying etc.)
• Each and every additional spending on the kid is on initiative party
• We don't help each other except for kid matters
• We don't meet each other except for kid matters
• We don't turn him against each of us
• We never argue or shout at each other
• If one of us decided to leave any point of this agreement (new family etc.), the second takes full responsibility and custody for the kid. The rest is on our common sense.
She agreed, and it seems that I’ll be with our son most of the time, if not all of it, which is a relief and the most important part for me.
I know it still takes a little trust in each of us, which is hard in given circumstances, but it's still better than go through court. She knows I would never let down our son. I, on the other hand, don't have any trust but still feel for her, I just know it's the end of our relation.
OP, if I can be in the right to give an advice, I’d say throw it out of your head as soon as possible and get on living. Think of it as a surprising opportunity to build a new interesting life (for example, to buy yourself a two seater
Don’t try to decompose your current feelings - the only things you’ll find is sorrow, lack of respect for yourself, regrets and growing anger. There is no such thing as your guilt in any given family trouble, both parties are always guilty. My older brother once said that we are different to women only in titles of our oddity. In men’s case, a woman should be well fed, dressed and get laid regularly, and everything will be okay. But in real world it is hard to do all of it constantly, especially when you live together for a long time. I think in this situation we are becoming obsessed (consciously or not) to make the other party suffer as we do, but it’s the wrong way. Think of her as your own reflection (only with no testies); don’t let yourself think she takes it any easier than you. In the end, time and your children are the judges. They never forgive you if you would do it wrong. The same is truth for her.
Don't wind down too much either - it really is one of the more important situations in your life, involves a lot of thinking and the one you can't avoid or let go. I know how hard can this be, and it gets harder the more you think of it and live with it. The next couple of month could turn out to be your worst nightmare, and you should be ready. But there's much left to enjoy.
Just ask yourself would you spend your time with her again from the beginning if you had a chance, to correct mistakes you did? The answer’s on you.
HTH
1,5 years ago she wouldn't come home for a couple of nights, acting suspiciously, becoming aggressive at any asked question, but declined cheating. At first this was ok as I completely trusted her, but there are limits. A quick investigation revealed her to be a new-born lesbian, which I would never suspect. It literally broke my heart (on pills since then). Somehow the cheat effect was amplified by this perversity. Now I'm not homophobic (in fact couldn't care less at the time) but to put it in my shoes... It just felt so wrong. Besides, she wanted to take our kid to her partner. That was too much for me.
After a couple of days I decided to protect my family and get her back, despite of reluctance and 'love' for her partner, thinking through any given choice. The plan was to show her my care and attempt to explain what I felt was wrong and how we can live together after that. In fact I treated her as ill, which turned out to be partially true - she was diagnosed with serious thyroid disorder. All I can say it was hard for both of us, but I was thinking then we could go through this with trust (and medical treatment). It took me a year to recover and to truly start enjoying our life.
And then it happened again, just a week ago I found out that she has a partner, a married man she works with. She again started to come home late. Well, you know, same kind of story, only this time her conspiration was much stronger. I asked her to be honest for at least this time, and she declined cheating again. A day of putting together small facts and some internet homework and voila. Only this time I took it much easier and don’t want to resume our relation at all. I think it's good that I forgave her the first time, but enough is enough. Those who betrayed once will betray again.
So we separated, I put together all her dirt, which gives me a room to move if our case will go through the court and met her yesterday with a programme I came up with:
• Our only common interest is our son
• He must be happy and protected of emotional traumas at all possible costs
• We do not present him with another mom/dad, there's only one dad and one mom
• We spend roughly equal time with him
• We schedule and agree our time with him a few days before
• We both spend equal parts of our income on his basic needs (living, studying etc.)
• Each and every additional spending on the kid is on initiative party
• We don't help each other except for kid matters
• We don't meet each other except for kid matters
• We don't turn him against each of us
• We never argue or shout at each other
• If one of us decided to leave any point of this agreement (new family etc.), the second takes full responsibility and custody for the kid. The rest is on our common sense.
She agreed, and it seems that I’ll be with our son most of the time, if not all of it, which is a relief and the most important part for me.
I know it still takes a little trust in each of us, which is hard in given circumstances, but it's still better than go through court. She knows I would never let down our son. I, on the other hand, don't have any trust but still feel for her, I just know it's the end of our relation.
OP, if I can be in the right to give an advice, I’d say throw it out of your head as soon as possible and get on living. Think of it as a surprising opportunity to build a new interesting life (for example, to buy yourself a two seater
Don’t try to decompose your current feelings - the only things you’ll find is sorrow, lack of respect for yourself, regrets and growing anger. There is no such thing as your guilt in any given family trouble, both parties are always guilty. My older brother once said that we are different to women only in titles of our oddity. In men’s case, a woman should be well fed, dressed and get laid regularly, and everything will be okay. But in real world it is hard to do all of it constantly, especially when you live together for a long time. I think in this situation we are becoming obsessed (consciously or not) to make the other party suffer as we do, but it’s the wrong way. Think of her as your own reflection (only with no testies); don’t let yourself think she takes it any easier than you. In the end, time and your children are the judges. They never forgive you if you would do it wrong. The same is truth for her.Don't wind down too much either - it really is one of the more important situations in your life, involves a lot of thinking and the one you can't avoid or let go. I know how hard can this be, and it gets harder the more you think of it and live with it. The next couple of month could turn out to be your worst nightmare, and you should be ready. But there's much left to enjoy.
Just ask yourself would you spend your time with her again from the beginning if you had a chance, to correct mistakes you did? The answer’s on you.
HTH
Lost_BMW said:
Smilie aside I see you are still keeping on keeping on. Can't change can you?
Why not open your own 'Look at how insufferable I am' thread and stop using this and ABD's situation for your own petty, needless (well, one would hope...) aggrandisement.
Which bit of this did you miss?Why not open your own 'Look at how insufferable I am' thread and stop using this and ABD's situation for your own petty, needless (well, one would hope...) aggrandisement.
Garlick said:
Can we let this drop now? I think the point has been made.
Back on topic perhaps?
Let's keep it on track please as it would be a shame for the thread to be closed due to irrelevant back biting.Back on topic perhaps?
Veeayt said:
A quick investigation revealed her to be a new-born lesbian, which I would never suspect. It literally broke my heart
I know this is a very serious post and I feel for you. But surely this is what we would call an opportunity?I don't consider girl on girl "cheating", I am a little odd though.
StottyZr said:
I know this is a very serious post and I feel for you. But surely this is what we would call an opportunity?
I don't consider girl on girl "cheating", I am a little odd though.
We can be different, or can't - you should consider circumstances. Two nice girls in one bed is good, even if one of them is your wife, i give you that. In fact, it's almost every normal man's secret dream. However, your beloved wife, who is clearly suffering from mental distortion and some ugly men-hating hag (true lesbian) that wants your kid is no good at all. Point made?I don't consider girl on girl "cheating", I am a little odd though.
Veeayt said:
StottyZr said:
I know this is a very serious post and I feel for you. But surely this is what we would call an opportunity?
I don't consider girl on girl "cheating", I am a little odd though.
We can be different, or can't - you should consider circumstances. Two nice girls in one bed is good, even if one of them is your wife, i give you that. In fact, it's almost every normal man's secret dream. However, your beloved wife, who is clearly suffering from mental distortion and some ugly men-hating hag (true lesbian) that wants your kid is no good at all. Point made?I don't consider girl on girl "cheating", I am a little odd though.
Mobile Chicane said:
I find it odd that's how you think open relationships work.
Friends are in one. Mummy and Daddy both have the kind of jobs whereby each travel a lot 'on business', and often their other partners accompany too.
Neither would dream of nailing their other partners in the family home with the children around.
Their children (both under ten) are the nicest, most well-adjusted children I know. Probably because their parents aren't constantly at each other's throats and put their childrens needs first.
Such an 'arrangement' takes a great deal of emotional maturity on all sides, not to mention the affluence to fund it all, but I'd be prepared to bet it's more common than many may think.
I disagree that it takes 'emotional maturity'.Friends are in one. Mummy and Daddy both have the kind of jobs whereby each travel a lot 'on business', and often their other partners accompany too.
Neither would dream of nailing their other partners in the family home with the children around.
Their children (both under ten) are the nicest, most well-adjusted children I know. Probably because their parents aren't constantly at each other's throats and put their childrens needs first.
Such an 'arrangement' takes a great deal of emotional maturity on all sides, not to mention the affluence to fund it all, but I'd be prepared to bet it's more common than many may think.
It takes both parties not to give a toss about the other. It takes complete indifference to one another.
I could not even imagine another man on my wife, and at the point I could I know its because I'd stopped caring enough.
Similarly, I couldnt put her through the indignity of going with other women in that blatant a fashion.
blindswelledrat said:
I disagree that it takes 'emotional maturity'.
It takes both parties not to give a toss about the other. It takes complete indifference to one another.
I could not even imagine another man on my wife, and at the point I could I know its because I'd stopped caring enough.
Similarly, I couldnt put her through the indignity of going with other women in that blatant a fashion.
I don't agree that it takes complete indifference. What is acceptable to one couple may well be completely unacceptable to another. People negotiate their ways through relationships and people have very different interpretations of what the term marriage actually means. It may not work for you, but that does not necessarily mean those who do it are indifferent towards each other.It takes both parties not to give a toss about the other. It takes complete indifference to one another.
I could not even imagine another man on my wife, and at the point I could I know its because I'd stopped caring enough.
Similarly, I couldnt put her through the indignity of going with other women in that blatant a fashion.
uk_vette said:
I wouldn't think it's possible to patch things up.
I guess when ABD is giving his wife some decent knobing, then he wouldn't be able to stop thinking some other bloke has had his knob in there also.
Kinda' put a damper on the whole thing.
vette
One assumes that your wife was chaste when you met her?I guess when ABD is giving his wife some decent knobing, then he wouldn't be able to stop thinking some other bloke has had his knob in there also.
Kinda' put a damper on the whole thing.
vette
blindswelledrat said:
Mobile Chicane said:
I find it odd that's how you think open relationships work.
Friends are in one. Mummy and Daddy both have the kind of jobs whereby each travel a lot 'on business', and often their other partners accompany too.
Neither would dream of nailing their other partners in the family home with the children around.
Their children (both under ten) are the nicest, most well-adjusted children I know. Probably because their parents aren't constantly at each other's throats and put their childrens needs first.
Such an 'arrangement' takes a great deal of emotional maturity on all sides, not to mention the affluence to fund it all, but I'd be prepared to bet it's more common than many may think.
I disagree that it takes 'emotional maturity'.Friends are in one. Mummy and Daddy both have the kind of jobs whereby each travel a lot 'on business', and often their other partners accompany too.
Neither would dream of nailing their other partners in the family home with the children around.
Their children (both under ten) are the nicest, most well-adjusted children I know. Probably because their parents aren't constantly at each other's throats and put their childrens needs first.
Such an 'arrangement' takes a great deal of emotional maturity on all sides, not to mention the affluence to fund it all, but I'd be prepared to bet it's more common than many may think.
It takes both parties not to give a toss about the other. It takes complete indifference to one another.
I could not even imagine another man on my wife, and at the point I could I know its because I'd stopped caring enough.
Similarly, I couldnt put her through the indignity of going with other women in that blatant a fashion.
For such an arrangement to work the people concerned would need not necessarily to be indifferent to each other, just to not think of them in a romantic way. The easiest way to picture that would be to think of some person of the opposite sex who you get on alright with, but wouldn't think to be romantically involved with. Then think of sharing a house (but not a bedroom) and the care of children with that person.
It's certainly not a usual relationship, but there is no inherent reason why it couldn't work, and there are many proven cases where it has.
It's certainly not a usual relationship, but there is no inherent reason why it couldn't work, and there are many proven cases where it has.
drivin_me_nuts said:
I don't agree that it takes complete indifference. What is acceptable to one couple may well be completely unacceptable to another. People negotiate their ways through relationships and people have very different interpretations of what the term marriage actually means. It may not work for you, but that does not necessarily mean those who do it are indifferent towards each other.
THere may not be a right and wrong here, but..well...there is.I know it is a stubborn view, but I do not believe that there is anyone who is completely fine with thier wife having sex with another man.
It doesn't really matter what anecdotes anyone tells me, I don't believe them. I accept that some couples make it 'work' somehow, but I dont accept that both parties are completely happy with the arrangement.
Disastrous said:
blindswelledrat said:
Mobile Chicane said:
I find it odd that's how you think open relationships work.
Friends are in one. Mummy and Daddy both have the kind of jobs whereby each travel a lot 'on business', and often their other partners accompany too.
Neither would dream of nailing their other partners in the family home with the children around.
Their children (both under ten) are the nicest, most well-adjusted children I know. Probably because their parents aren't constantly at each other's throats and put their childrens needs first.
Such an 'arrangement' takes a great deal of emotional maturity on all sides, not to mention the affluence to fund it all, but I'd be prepared to bet it's more common than many may think.
I disagree that it takes 'emotional maturity'.Friends are in one. Mummy and Daddy both have the kind of jobs whereby each travel a lot 'on business', and often their other partners accompany too.
Neither would dream of nailing their other partners in the family home with the children around.
Their children (both under ten) are the nicest, most well-adjusted children I know. Probably because their parents aren't constantly at each other's throats and put their childrens needs first.
Such an 'arrangement' takes a great deal of emotional maturity on all sides, not to mention the affluence to fund it all, but I'd be prepared to bet it's more common than many may think.
It takes both parties not to give a toss about the other. It takes complete indifference to one another.
I could not even imagine another man on my wife, and at the point I could I know its because I'd stopped caring enough.
Similarly, I couldnt put her through the indignity of going with other women in that blatant a fashion.
However, that very thought...pleasuring my wife...made me think...I like my wife being happy...I can see why, albeit I couldn't, people allow open relationships.
Bit of a vicous circle when contemplating it.
singlecoil said:
For such an arrangement to work the people concerned would need not necessarily to be indifferent to each other, just to not think of them in a romantic way. The easiest way to picture that would be to think of some person of the opposite sex who you get on alright with, but wouldn't think to be romantically involved with. Then think of sharing a house (but not a bedroom) and the care of children with that person.
It's certainly not a usual relationship, but there is no inherent reason why it couldn't work, and there are many proven cases where it has.
Its kind of the same point.It's certainly not a usual relationship, but there is no inherent reason why it couldn't work, and there are many proven cases where it has.
By any logical definition of marriage or relationship between two sexes there is an inherent implication of intimacy of some type.
The relationship you describe is that of two friends.
SO perhaps I re-phrase my original point to 'indifference in a physical context' which renders the relationship redundant in my eyes.
blindswelledrat said:
I accept that some couples make it 'work' somehow, but I dont accept that both parties are completely happy with the arrangement.
I see exactly what you mean, but I wouldn't expect them to be completely happy, it's just one way forward from a range of choices, none of which both parties are going to be completely happy with. If there was a better solution available fair enough, but in some cases, possibly this one, mmaybe there isn't.I've been reading this thread throughout and quietly willing ABD on. I've not added my advice because I've nothing constructive to say, other than "good luck mate".
However, I find it bl**dy annoying that, what started out as rather a good example of what the PH Forum can achieve when one of its members needs a bit of help, has been ruined by this utterly pointless drivel.
Ali D; that is the best response I've seen in the last 10 pages. God knows it needed saying.
However, I find it bl**dy annoying that, what started out as rather a good example of what the PH Forum can achieve when one of its members needs a bit of help, has been ruined by this utterly pointless drivel.
Ali_D said:
singlecoil said:
Now that my stalker has joined in, perhaps I will.
Or maybe I won't, I always stand up to bullies.
your not standing up to bullies your being a knob. Or maybe I won't, I always stand up to bullies.
singlecoil said:
I see exactly what you mean, but I wouldn't expect them to be completely happy, it's just one way forward from a range of choices, none of which both parties are going to be completely happy with. If there was a better solution available fair enough, but in some cases, possibly this one, mmaybe there isn't.
Agreed, just in my opinion there will *always* be a better way forward than to become a cuckolded whipping boy with no dignity and a wife who expressed contempt for you whilst astride another man.Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff