Conspiracy Theories for Cynics
Discussion
uncinqsix said:
The problem with that is very, very few people would be morally OK with killing thousands of innocent Americans for some shady, undefined government purpose. Someone would have thought "this isn't right" and leaked. It's a very different situation to developing secret aircraft and during wartime where "leaking" was called "treason" and carried a death penalty.
I would imagine thats why the security vetting process is pretty extreeme...And I can only imagine what the general public hear about security vetting only scratches the surface...
uncinqsix said:
Art0ir said:
To address the "it would leak" comments... The manhattan project had 100,000s of people involved and only a handful of people knew about the outcome of the project before the bombs dropped.
Equally 1000s of people, both civilian contractors and military folk work at Groom lake and have been developing black projects in relative secrecy since the U2 in 1955.
Not that it lends any credence to 9/11 truthers but there are 1000 good reasons to disbelieve them beyond "you couldn't plan something like that in secret without leaks."
The problem with that is very, very few people would be morally OK with killing thousands of innocent Americans for some shady, undefined government purpose. Someone would have thought "this isn't right" and leaked. It's a very different situation to developing secret aircraft and during wartime where "leaking" was called "treason" and carried a death penalty. Equally 1000s of people, both civilian contractors and military folk work at Groom lake and have been developing black projects in relative secrecy since the U2 in 1955.
Not that it lends any credence to 9/11 truthers but there are 1000 good reasons to disbelieve them beyond "you couldn't plan something like that in secret without leaks."
It was the same with D Day, there was grave concern when cross words puzzles with code words started to appear in newpapers, people were blabbing. Unintentionally of course. One theory I heard was a compiler for the cross words, his school was close to the bases, the school boys would pick up on words around the troops and repeat them back in class. Then they got incorporated into the crossword puzzles without knowing the import.
We have Blunt, Burgess etc. The US had a rather nice fellow who liked money, Aldrich Ames. People talk for one reason or another. And something like 11/9, I bet there are people that would have spilled the beans for money by now let alone doing the right thing.
ChemicalChaos said:
Anyway, a more "plausible" one I've heard recently:
We all know how absolutely, utterly desperate "the establishment" and particularly the government was for Britain to vote Remain last year. The whopping scare stories, the printed leaflet, etc etc. - even recruiting Obama to threaten us with no trade deals.
As a result, I've seen a few people suggesting that the murder of Jo Cox was a false flag attack designed to shift public sympathy back to remain.
They do have a few points:
- Before the attack, polls were suggesting 60% in favour of Brexit, afterwards they swung back to marginally favour remain
- There is a previous example of this sort of attack, which happened prior to an EU referendum some years ago in another country (I forget which, offhand but I think it did influence the outcome)
- The killer was immediately described as a vulnerable mentally ill extremist loner - the perfect patsy for someone to influence and to put up to it
- Depending on which news report you read/hear, there still seems to be some confusion over what exactly he shouted (Britain First/Put Britain First/This is for Britain First). Was it a rehearsed blame-casting line that was fluffed in the heat of the moment?
- Britain First supporters often engage in punch ups but operate in groups not alone, and have never stooped to life threatening attacks
- The killer has never been seen or heard of again. Everything about his trail and jailing has been in utmost secrecy. Why? Even the so-called secret trial of the scum who killed Lee Rigby was reported about, and they have been heard of from inside prison in subsequent news reports. Their trial was secret to stop them using airtime to radicalise people. Not sure the same danger exists for this bloke - but was someone desperate to stop anything being said in public that might have pointed to him being put up to it?
- Overall, the consensus among people I've seen discussing the the theory seems to be that he was put up to roughing her up a bit, but went way too far and had to be kept quiet
And so over to the PH collective to dismantle this latest theory...
This one is super easy to debunk I think, based just on the assertions listed above not being correct (at least from what I recall!).We all know how absolutely, utterly desperate "the establishment" and particularly the government was for Britain to vote Remain last year. The whopping scare stories, the printed leaflet, etc etc. - even recruiting Obama to threaten us with no trade deals.
As a result, I've seen a few people suggesting that the murder of Jo Cox was a false flag attack designed to shift public sympathy back to remain.
They do have a few points:
- Before the attack, polls were suggesting 60% in favour of Brexit, afterwards they swung back to marginally favour remain
- There is a previous example of this sort of attack, which happened prior to an EU referendum some years ago in another country (I forget which, offhand but I think it did influence the outcome)
- The killer was immediately described as a vulnerable mentally ill extremist loner - the perfect patsy for someone to influence and to put up to it
- Depending on which news report you read/hear, there still seems to be some confusion over what exactly he shouted (Britain First/Put Britain First/This is for Britain First). Was it a rehearsed blame-casting line that was fluffed in the heat of the moment?
- Britain First supporters often engage in punch ups but operate in groups not alone, and have never stooped to life threatening attacks
- The killer has never been seen or heard of again. Everything about his trail and jailing has been in utmost secrecy. Why? Even the so-called secret trial of the scum who killed Lee Rigby was reported about, and they have been heard of from inside prison in subsequent news reports. Their trial was secret to stop them using airtime to radicalise people. Not sure the same danger exists for this bloke - but was someone desperate to stop anything being said in public that might have pointed to him being put up to it?
- Overall, the consensus among people I've seen discussing the the theory seems to be that he was put up to roughing her up a bit, but went way too far and had to be kept quiet
And so over to the PH collective to dismantle this latest theory...
- Before the attack, polls were suggesting 60% in favour of Brexit, afterwards they swung back to marginally favour remain
Nope - from my recollection, remain was always ahead in the polls, that or neck and neck. You can see that here.
- The killer was immediately described as a vulnerable mentally ill extremist loner - the perfect patsy for someone to influence and to put up to it
Also, exactly the sort of person who would be expected to carry out this sort of attack.
- Depending on which news report you read/hear, there still seems to be some confusion over what exactly he shouted (Britain First/Put Britain First/This is for Britain First). Was it a rehearsed blame-casting line that was fluffed in the heat of the moment?
This was well reported at the time. Here is just one of them - there's a difference to my mind between saying "Britain first" along with "this is for Britain" and "keep Britain independent" and a reference to the group Britain First.
- The killer has never been seen or heard of again. Everything about his trail and jailing has been in utmost secrecy.
Also demonstrably nonsense, see here, the trail and imprisonment was well reported on at the time. As for anyone reporting on him after the trail - why would they? You could probably say the same for the killer of Lee Rigby - has his killer been heard from since? Have any murderers had their comments reported in the press after the trail ends? In the case of the vast majority, the answer is no.
Some of the basic statements above are demonstrably incorrect with even the most rudimentary use of Google, and designed to give credence to the overall narrative. However, using news sources from the time you can see that people just aren't remembering what was actually happening at the time (poll results, what was said, claims of "secrecy", etc.). I've not bothered rebutting all of them, because some of the assertions (i.e. that this was claimed to be a Britain First "operation", which I also don't believe is something that has been seriously put forward as a theory) rely on other statements which are demonstrably wrong.
Ceeejay said:
I would imagine thats why the security vetting process is pretty extreeme...
And I can only imagine what the general public hear about security vetting only scratches the surface...
The vetting is still carried out by humans, who make mistakes. Snowden's a good example of someone who held a very high-level security clearance, but he absolutely should never have been given one - his extreme narcissistic personality traits should have been clear as day. He wont be a unique case either. And I can only imagine what the general public hear about security vetting only scratches the surface...
ChemicalChaos said:
...- There is a previous example of this sort of attack, which happened prior to an EU referendum some years ago in another country (I forget which, offhand but I think it did influence the outcome)...
Anna Lindh - Sweden 2003Murdered by someone with mental illness whilst on drugs...Lindh was pro-Euro and the Swedes had a vote to the euro, which they rejected in the referendum a short time later.
ChemicalChaos said:
We all know how absolutely, utterly desperate "the establishment" and particularly the government was for Britain to vote Remain last year. The whopping scare stories, the printed leaflet, etc etc. - even recruiting Obama to threaten us with no trade deals.
As opposed to the "Extra £350m per week for the NHS!" and "Everyone is sick of experts" f
kwittery?I don't think either side can claim much glory.
ChemicalChaos said:
- The killer has never been seen or heard of again. Everything about his trail and jailing has been in utmost secrecy. Why?
This is utter rubbish.The build up, the trial, the outcome and the sentencing was absolutely all over the news in Yorkshire and was definitely covered on the mainstream national and international news channels as well as in the printed press.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Jo+Cox+murder
Edited by PorkInsider on Friday 14th July 12:49
ChemicalChaos said:
- The killer has never been seen or heard of again. Everything about his trail and jailing has been in utmost secrecy. Why?
Apart from all the news coverage, he has truly disappeared off the face of the earthhttps://www.google.co.uk/webhp?hl=en&sa=X&...
I have to admit, when this subject came up I thought maybe he had a point as i certainly couldnt remember the name of the killer. Now i just read that last link and his name still doesnt ring any bells!
I thought it might have been george something, but then i realised i was thinking of Susan Dando!
I thought it might have been george something, but then i realised i was thinking of Susan Dando!
Shuvi McTupya said:
I have to admit, when this subject came up I thought maybe he had a point as i certainly couldnt remember the name of the killer. Now i just read that last link and his name still doesnt ring any bells!
I thought it might have been george something, but then i realised i was thinking of Susan Dando!
Dafuq has an ex olympic gymnast from the 70s got to do with this? I thought it might have been george something, but then i realised i was thinking of Susan Dando!
Tim Rifat was on rense radio this morning claiming that by taking control of an AI system that he merged with bioplasma gleaned from Katy Perry he caused
- The hms vengeance trident missile test to fail
- The various US warship crashes into other vessels in recent times
And a load of other stuff
Gloriously bonkers
- The hms vengeance trident missile test to fail
- The various US warship crashes into other vessels in recent times
And a load of other stuff
Gloriously bonkers
DanL said:
Nope - from my recollection, remain was always ahead in the polls, that or neck and neck. You can see that here.
Or all the historical data herehttp://ukpollingreport.co.uk/eu-referendum
That the Las Vegas shooting was a false flag was, of course, bound to surface quite quickly
As usual, Alex Jones is at the front of the queue
"Bombshell Video shows second shooter during Vegas massacre" https://youtu.be/S1V39YxpWV8
"Could Stephen Paddock, the lone Vegas shooter, have been a patsy to kick off the left’s war with the right in the streets of America and to simultaneously roll in the Rapiscan naked body scanners that profit former DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff, George Soros and a handful of lobbyists connected to the management of the Mandalay Bay Hotel and Casino? "
As usual, Alex Jones is at the front of the queue
"Bombshell Video shows second shooter during Vegas massacre" https://youtu.be/S1V39YxpWV8
"Could Stephen Paddock, the lone Vegas shooter, have been a patsy to kick off the left’s war with the right in the streets of America and to simultaneously roll in the Rapiscan naked body scanners that profit former DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff, George Soros and a handful of lobbyists connected to the management of the Mandalay Bay Hotel and Casino? "
Rense gets in on the conspiracy aspects of the Las Vegas shootings with a piece featuring some pics that show blood - don't click the link if you don't want to see blood
http://www.rense.com/general96/paddockblood.html
Here is a little extract to show you where it heads
"Paddock's arms are both DOWN at his sides but the 'suicide' gun is perfectly placed about 3' above his head."
"This photo and the others below it are said to have been 'leaked'...obviously by someone in the Las Vegas Police Department. Why would a crime scene police officer risk his career and release crime scene photos? The answer is that it was intentional and sanctioned by 'higher-ups' because it permits the viewing public to close the loop on the 'lone gunman', Stephen Paddock. It permits them to begin to put this horror to sleep because it is BAD FOR BUSINESS and Las Vegas does NOT like things that are bad for business. People like 'closure'…they need closure. Patsy Paddock is dead, case closed, end of story. Right? Wrong."
...
"And what if he was THE designated patsy from the very beginning…just like Lee Harvey Oswald? That would argue that just before the shooting began, Paddock could have been executed and the scene made to look like a suicide by placing guns all over the suite and stage-placing the execution hand gun several feet above his head for a nice photo op.
Then the Islamic radical shooters knocked out the windows on cue, fired off hundreds of rounds with assault rifles on full-auto while the other ISIS shooters mowed down hundreds more concertgoers from the 4th and 5th floors far below. Probably at least two of them with machine guns…like US M60s with a drum magazine. Look it up.
Finally, as the terror operation called for, the shooters in the Paddock suite packed up and threw some spent casings around the head of the suicided patsy and left. And one of those casings landed with a splat...right in the pool of blood you've seen in the photos above."
http://www.rense.com/general96/paddockblood.html
Here is a little extract to show you where it heads
"Paddock's arms are both DOWN at his sides but the 'suicide' gun is perfectly placed about 3' above his head."
"This photo and the others below it are said to have been 'leaked'...obviously by someone in the Las Vegas Police Department. Why would a crime scene police officer risk his career and release crime scene photos? The answer is that it was intentional and sanctioned by 'higher-ups' because it permits the viewing public to close the loop on the 'lone gunman', Stephen Paddock. It permits them to begin to put this horror to sleep because it is BAD FOR BUSINESS and Las Vegas does NOT like things that are bad for business. People like 'closure'…they need closure. Patsy Paddock is dead, case closed, end of story. Right? Wrong."
...
"And what if he was THE designated patsy from the very beginning…just like Lee Harvey Oswald? That would argue that just before the shooting began, Paddock could have been executed and the scene made to look like a suicide by placing guns all over the suite and stage-placing the execution hand gun several feet above his head for a nice photo op.
Then the Islamic radical shooters knocked out the windows on cue, fired off hundreds of rounds with assault rifles on full-auto while the other ISIS shooters mowed down hundreds more concertgoers from the 4th and 5th floors far below. Probably at least two of them with machine guns…like US M60s with a drum magazine. Look it up.
Finally, as the terror operation called for, the shooters in the Paddock suite packed up and threw some spent casings around the head of the suicided patsy and left. And one of those casings landed with a splat...right in the pool of blood you've seen in the photos above."
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