Bradford- lost for words

[Dog Star]

Countdown said:

I just wondered if you knew why Bacup and Whitworth were such "dives" given there are hardly any Asians there.

P.s. there are plenty of white-only council estates around Rochdale that equal Bradford..

Hmmmm. When were you last there? I'd describe every single one of your observations there as totally dated.

And there is no estate at all in Rochdale that is remotely as bad as Bradford - it's in another league to anything I've ever seen.

[Countdown]

Dog Star said:

Hmmmm. When were you last there? I'd describe every single one of your observations there as totally dated.

And there is no estate at all in Rochdale that is remotely as bad as Bradford - it's in another league to anything I've ever seen.

I drive through there once or twice a month. I have friends who work for Rossendale Council. I also did some work with a large Housing Association which has properties thought Rossendale, Blackburn, Pendle, and Calderdale. So I like to think I've got a good idea of the grot spots in that area. Do you know the Pennines Road area or the Wallbank Estate?, and Langley in Rochdale matches the best that Manningham Lane in Bradford has to offer in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong. Bradford is a major league dump but I'm not sure why it deserves to be singled out in particular.

[Countdown]

Timsta said:

Dog Star said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes they do.

This is an interesting theory actually. Are there any towns with a large "non-indigenous" population that aren't scummy? If so, where did these people originate from?

I have a simple theory. First generation immigrants come to this country with nothing and tend to cluster together for companionship, mutual support, security etc. Because they're clustered together they are easily visible plus the fact that they tend to be at the bottom of the socio-economic scale means they live in poor areas.

Moving forwards, some 2nd/3rd generation immigrants will have improved their financial circumstances. They can move to better areas, lower-density housing, they don't need to rely on family or the immigrant community as much, so they buy bigger/better/more expensive housing. As a side effect they become less visible. This is why you perhaps don't see "large immigrant communities" in areas that aren't scummy.The factors that encourage/perpetuate mono-cultural communities aren't as important when you have money.

Just a guess - I'm not a sociologist by any means.

[GC8]

NeMiSiS said:

You need to go to Bolton.

Mate: no one needs to go to Bolton!

[tenpenceshort]

Countdown said:

I have a simple theory. First generation immigrants come to this country with nothing and tend to cluster together for companionship, mutual support, security etc. Because they're clustered together they are easily visible plus the fact that they tend to be at the bottom of the socio-economic scale means they live in poor areas.

Moving forwards, some 2nd/3rd generation immigrants will have improved their financial circumstances. They can move to better areas, lower-density housing, they don't need to rely on family or the immigrant community as much, so they buy bigger/better/more expensive housing. As a side effect they become less visible. This is why you perhaps don't see "large immigrant communities" in areas that aren't scummy.The factors that encourage/perpetuate mono-cultural communities aren't as important when you have money.

Just a guess - I'm not a sociologist by any means.

An awful lot of the Pakistani immigrants arrived as the industrial centres of the midlands and northern mill towns were in decline. These areas had dense housing availability at cheap prices, making it affordable and practical. The Asians became a target for those left behind resenting the disappearance of jobs and opportunity, that was no fault of the Asians.

[Dog Star]

Know them all; Wallbank doesn't come close. Not by a million miles. I'd say Whitworth was a very nice place tbh; it's certainly been up and coming over the last few years. Beautiful location, nice pubs, nice people, sometimes go for a night out up there.

I believe Langley comes under Rochdale MBC but in reality it's Middleton. Middleton is Manchester to everyone I know. Even so it doesn't look any different to any other council,estate in the UK to me.

I genuinely believe Bradford central is the worst place in the UK.

Back on topic - if you look at the state of an area it would appear that the more strictly religiously dressed the women are then the bigger a dump the place is. Is it a "progressive" / education thing?(Does this make sense? This is hard work on my tablet. The amount that the females are covered is a pretty good indication of how entrenched their religious views are, I think). Does the strictness of faith have a bearing? I suspect so, though I don't know why it should.

Incidentally - when I was working in Bradford in 1992 it was the first time I ever saw a woman wearing a full veil with just an eye slit. This was something of a novelty, but I only saw a couple. Go there now and they are far far more prevelant. Is this an indication of a hardening of views?

Edited by Dog Star on Sunday 31st August 11:39

[Countdown]

Dog Star said:

Know them all; Wallbank doesn't come close. Not by a million miles. I'd say Whitworth was a very nice place tbh; it's certainly been up and coming over the last few years. Beautiful location, nice pubs, nice people, sometimes go for a night out up there.

I believe Langley comes under Rochdale MBC but in reality it's Middleton. Middleton is Manchester to everyone I know. Even so it doesn't look any different to any other council,estate in the UK to me.

I genuinely believe Bradford central is the worst place in the UK.
]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree I used to have spreadsheets showing the amounts of ASB and crime in the various estates where we had properties. If I've still got them I might post them up. The Wallbank has been a 5hithole for the last 20 years and I was told that even the Alsations walk round in pairs. And Bacup is just a whole-town version of the Wallbank.

Bradford is a major league dump. There's no disputing that. Is it the worst place in the UK? I doubt that. I've heard some pretty bad things about Glasgow. There are large parts of Salford that are pretty bad. Blackpool is pretty poor. Hull and Grimsby aren't great. Chapel town in Leeds is fairly awful, and there are areas of Birmingham that more than match anything Bradford has to offer.

[Countdown]

http://www.ilivehere.co.uk/top-10-worst-places-to-...


http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/14/best-and-worst-place...

Edited by Countdown on Sunday 31st August 12:00

[tenpenceshort]

Many parts of Bradford would look better post apocalyptic TNT attack, however I wouldn't draw the distinction along racial lines. I would be equally afraid of walking around white areas after dark as I would other areas.

The closest estates to me are at Greengates (I live half a mile away in Calverley, on the Leeds side of the boundry, which is about as far from Bradford as you can get ideologically). It's as rough looking and feeling as any of the Asian areas in Bradford.

[myvision]

[quote=Countdown]http://www.ilivehere.co.uk/top-10-worst-places-to-live-in-england


http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/14/best-and-worst-place...

Edited by Countdown on Sunday 31st August 12:00

The first comment on Bradford!


Bradford, West Yorkshire. Population 501,700 (the vast majority of which are chavs, Asian drug dealers and partially disabled alcoholics on benefits). Unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be enough words available in the English language to emphasise what a complete and utter f**king s**t-hole this place really is.

[Thankyou4calling]

Southall Is an interesting area to look at.

It has a far higher percentage of Asians than Bradford ( more than 50%)

If you drive through the main streets, Uxbridge Road, King Street, they seem to be absolutely thriving. Yes, they are cluttered with shops spilling onto the pavement and people hustling along but there is definitely a vibrancy to the area.

A three bed house will start at 275,000, I know that's not Twickenham prices but it's still a fair chunk and plenty show a good level of upkeep and pride.

The fruit and veg displays in the shops put the likes of Tesco and Sainsburys to shame, open until the small hours.

The people seem very relaxed and westernised although there are plenty of old school too. You can get some great food and on a warm day it is a really fascinating place to walk around and a massive contrast from the appalling areas in Bradford which are filthy, run down and have nothing to recommend them.

Why this is I don't know but it is certainly an Asian area that isn't a ghetto.

[tenpenceshort]

You're trying to draw parallels along cultural lines when you should be doing so economically. London is economically vibrant. Bradford is not. That is the difference.

[Chunkymonkey71]

Countdown said:

I think we'll have to agree to disagree I used to have spreadsheets showing the amounts of ASB and crime in the various estates where we had properties. If I've still got them I might post them up. The Wallbank has been a 5hithole for the last 20 years and I was told that even the Alsations walk round in pairs. And Bacup is just a whole-town version of the Wallbank.

Bradford is a major league dump. There's no disputing that. Is it the worst place in the UK? I doubt that. I've heard some pretty bad things about Glasgow. There are large parts of Salford that are pretty bad. Blackpool is pretty poor. Hull and Grimsby aren't great. Chapel town in Leeds is fairly awful, and there are areas of Birmingham that more than match anything Bradford has to offer.

I live in one of the worst parts of Glasgow and there are parts of England that I wouldn't set foot in. I've driven through Bradford before and haven't seen anything as bad here (and that includes Govan, my own town, which is reputedly one of the most deprived areas of Western Europe.)

Up here we do poverty with community spirit.

[Dog Star]

tenpenceshort said:

London is economically vibrant. Bradford is not. That is the difference.

Very good point.

[tenpenceshort]

Chunkymonkey71 said:

I live in one of the worst parts of Glasgow and there are parts of England that I wouldn't set foot in. I've driven through Bradford before and haven't seen anything as bad here (and that includes Govan, my own town, which is reputedly one of the most deprived areas of Western Europe.)

Up here we do poverty with community spirit.

I dunno, I always found parts of Easterhouses utterly, utterly stholic. Very few people there who aren't directly related to Braveheart, either. Poverty always present there, too.

[Chunkymonkey71]

I guess that's the point really. Places like Bradford have no community spirit. We have ghettoised areas here too, specifically Govanhill; but a lot is done in these communities to integrate people and cultures and make them part of things. As a former welfare, careers and employability worker I've had a fair hand in what goes on and there are many positives. Given the correct support, people do integrate. There is still poverty, but when people are actively involved in their communities it's certainly less obvious. What I've seen in places like Bradford is a case of 'not my problem, someone else will deal with it'.

Ps- as I write this, there is a fridge freezer standing outside my tenement. It's been there for a couple of weeks now, despite this being a main road. The recycling centre is less than half a mile away and the council uplift is free, and just a phone call away. There are 4 flats in my close, all inhabited by white people (my mrs is Polish and there's an Italian girl on the ground floor so it's still multicultural in a sense!)
The fridge belonged to either the guy in his late 50s on the first floor, or the old woman on the second. I'd be surprised if either of them have ever worked a day in their lives. In a roundabout way, what I'm trying to say is that the problem with these communities (including mine to an extent) doesn't lie with the cultures and insularity of immigrants; it's all in the current, rotten and corrupted generation of 'not my problem, someone else will deal with it' attitude that is sweeping much of the UK.

We are a declining population and we need immigration (either that or we need to all start shagging like dogs if we expect a pension in 40 years). Indigenous white people need to learn to integrate as well. It's a 2 way street.

[Chunkymonkey71]

tenpenceshort said:

Chunkymonkey71 said:

I live in one of the worst parts of Glasgow and there are parts of England that I wouldn't set foot in. I've driven through Bradford before and haven't seen anything as bad here (and that includes Govan, my own town, which is reputedly one of the most deprived areas of Western Europe.)

Up here we do poverty with community spirit.

I dunno, I always found parts of Easterhouses utterly, utterly stholic. Very few people there who aren't directly related to Braveheart, either. Poverty always present there, too.

Easterhoose is a mess, this is true; but it's come a long way since the 1980s, and it's certainly moving forward!

Glasgow's population has changed massively since the early 2000s when the labour Government allowed/encouraged the housing and protection of asylum seekers. Areas that were traditionally poor and white are now poor and mixed. What I see here is places like Springburn and Prospecthill (traditionally poor and unemployed) are full of asylum seekers trying to make a go of things under very heavily restricted conditions; meanwhile the white people who live there complain about asylum seekers 'getting everything for free' and bringing the area down- ironically forgetting that they also, are getting everything free and if they had any aspirations for a better standard of living then they should use the wide range of resources available to them (and not to the asylum seekers) and make an effort to better their own situations. As for asylum seekers bringing an area down- they are heavily monitored and would have to be incredibly foolish to take part in any kind of crime, and expect to be allowed to remain in the UK.

[citizensm1th]

Leicester is an interesting one its almost as if someone at the council is designing the city like an archery target.
In the centre we have expensive student accommodation heavily rented out by rich Hong Kong Chinese students. Outside of the inner ring road we have three distinct ghetto areas one populated by mainly Somalian immigrants in very low quality council accommodation. Another is mainly Asian Muslim privately owned (still very poor quality housing) and then we have an area made up of eastern Europeans/ poor whites in private rented accommodation.

Surrounding this we have another ring road which itself has large council estates attached mainly populated by poor white working class families and pensioners. there are also communities of wealthy non Muslim immigrants and descendants in some very expensive houses.

and on the outskirts we have feeder communities mainly consisting of white working class and middle class

this situation has led to friction between communities in the centre that have resulted in two murderous attacks in the last 12 months

if the powers that be allow communities not to integrate it will only get worse

The Somalians stay where they are because that's where they have been put by the council and are first generation so are not wealthy enough to move.
The Muslims stay where they are because that's where the mosques are.
The whites that can escape have done.
The Indians etc have started to move out following the white flight

Im sad to say I don't think it will be long before something happens to make it kick off big time in Leicester as it very nearly did this year when Dr Muhammad Taufiq lost his family when his house was fire bombed, which was a failed revenge attack for the murder of Antoin Akpom by Hussein Hussein.

[Dog Star]

To be honest a lot of us here (myself included) are perhaps being a bit unfair - if you think about it apart from the affluent, commercialised shopping and trendy bar areas and certain parks of places like London, Manchester etc etc, actual big towns and cities are generally speaking all st.

[mikebradford]

Dog Star said:

To be honest a lot of us here (myself included) are perhaps being a bit unfair - if you think about it apart from the affluent, commercialised shopping and trendy bar areas and certain parks of places like London, Manchester etc etc, actual big towns and cities are generally speaking all st.

Very true
But unfortunatley its these that help us be bias as to which towns we like
Ironically Bradford has some great Parks. Shame that whenever their are public events on theirs usually a stabbing or some form of protest. lol
One of the many reasons i choose not to make the effort and take my kids there

The fundamental issue is, people can easily travel. And bradford has competion on its doorstep. Be it for shopping, nights out or any other form of culture.
And when looking to do any of these its nice to know you have a variety of good quality coffes shops, resteraunts etc. And as an overall package Bradford is sadly lacking.

The only time we ever put Bradford first is when going to watch panto at christmas.
We even avoid the main Hospital if we can, and are fortunate the other local hospital, Airedale is pretty good.