Being told " I don't love you anymore"
Discussion
Bathroom_Security said:
theboss said:
I guess my mate should count himself lucky then.
He just got a child arrangements order granted in his favour stating his child will live with him after the mother relocated with the child to the other end of the country with no prior consultation. CAFCASS officer was extremely critical of the mother's actions. She tried to up-end the child's life and move them away from the other parent and now she only gets to see them in school holidays.
It doesn't always go in the mother's favour.
Guy I know is going through exactly this, worse, her new partner is on coke as well. He just got a child arrangements order granted in his favour stating his child will live with him after the mother relocated with the child to the other end of the country with no prior consultation. CAFCASS officer was extremely critical of the mother's actions. She tried to up-end the child's life and move them away from the other parent and now she only gets to see them in school holidays.
It doesn't always go in the mother's favour.
I can only imagine how that would make me feel.
The mother wanted to start a new life many hundreds of miles away.
All her reasoning was based on herself - there was no convincing argument that it was in the child's interests in any way other than to maintain maternal contact (at the expense of the childs relationship with Dad). They had 50/50 beforehand so whichever way it went, the child would end up missing one parent.
Once it became clear she wouldn't get her own way, she actually rejected my friends reasonable proposals around contact and reduced her contact to the bare minimum e.g. main holidays only rather than half terms and any other opportunity.
So my mate ends up going from having custody but trying to secure the most frequent contact with the mother possible, to accepting that having lost her battle she actually wants little to do with her own kid.
theboss said:
In my mate's case, he just wanted to keep the child in familiar surroundings with school, friends, family etc. whilst providing stability and continuity.
The mother wanted to start a new life many hundreds of miles away.
All her reasoning was based on herself - there was no convincing argument that it was in the child's interests in any way other than to maintain maternal contact (at the expense of the childs relationship with Dad). They had 50/50 beforehand so whichever way it went, the child would end up missing one parent.
Once it became clear she wouldn't get her own way, she actually rejected my friends reasonable proposals around contact and reduced her contact to the bare minimum e.g. main holidays only rather than half terms and any other opportunity.
So my mate ends up going from having custody but trying to secure the most frequent contact with the mother possible, to accepting that having lost her battle she actually wants little to do with her own kid.
Presumably it was never about the best for the child, but about punishing the dad.The mother wanted to start a new life many hundreds of miles away.
All her reasoning was based on herself - there was no convincing argument that it was in the child's interests in any way other than to maintain maternal contact (at the expense of the childs relationship with Dad). They had 50/50 beforehand so whichever way it went, the child would end up missing one parent.
Once it became clear she wouldn't get her own way, she actually rejected my friends reasonable proposals around contact and reduced her contact to the bare minimum e.g. main holidays only rather than half terms and any other opportunity.
So my mate ends up going from having custody but trying to secure the most frequent contact with the mother possible, to accepting that having lost her battle she actually wants little to do with her own kid.
I wonder if she considers that the dad having the child full time is punishing him, too - while she has time on her hands.
Muzzer79 said:
There can be a fine line between accepting an abusive relationship and accepting that your partner temporarily isn't his/herself due to a massive emotional trauma and seeking to support them through it.
It's absolutely correct that the other party needs to, at some point, recognise that you aren't happy and be part of the effort to change the situation.
It boils down to whether you believe you partner has changed permanently into someone who isn't compatible with you and is persecuting you as a result, or if they are in an emotional hole that they'll eventually come out of to return as someone you love.
Defining between the two can be hard. There's plenty of chaps who use the rational of "deep down there is the woman I loved and still want to love" but she has to want to be that person again.
That's what I'm struggling with.It's absolutely correct that the other party needs to, at some point, recognise that you aren't happy and be part of the effort to change the situation.
It boils down to whether you believe you partner has changed permanently into someone who isn't compatible with you and is persecuting you as a result, or if they are in an emotional hole that they'll eventually come out of to return as someone you love.
Defining between the two can be hard. There's plenty of chaps who use the rational of "deep down there is the woman I loved and still want to love" but she has to want to be that person again.
First there was 6 years of ME chronic fatigue.
Then there was empty nest syndrome.
Then she had a cancer scare
Then the menopause
Then she was just f
king horribleThen Covid.
Then her dad dying (and her providing nursing care 24/7 whilst he died at home over a 2 week period)
Then her mum being unable to cope and moving in with us for 8 weeks, then January lockdown and her mum.moving back home
Then finding her mother had a heart problem, and trying to get her seen by the appropriate specialists.
Then.her mum being taken in an ambulance to hospital and her mum being in hospital confused and neglected.
Then her mum being brought back home in an ambulance, my wife fighting tooth and nail to get her the care package in place and finally nursing her 24/7 and being with her when she died.
Then arranging the funeral, and now having to start sorting through all the stuff that nobody really has space for.
Each time, rather than rely on me she's made it clear that I'm the worst husband in the world, so.ive watched her fight against me for 15 years. Every little stress, she blames me for. Every big problem, I'm told that I'm a b
d who does not care enough. She can manipulate any conversation into something that proves I don't care about her. If I do something kind. That's just me saying "look at me aren't I good" and if I do sometging that she decides she doesn't like that's proof "you don't care enough and are lazy. Selfish, mean, nasty"
I almost left today. She makes me cry every day.
I'm staying because the right thing is to be loyal and kind and try to help her through this.
But eventually this will end. I will just go.
Pit Pony said:
Muzzer79 said:
There can be a fine line between accepting an abusive relationship and accepting that your partner temporarily isn't his/herself due to a massive emotional trauma and seeking to support them through it.
It's absolutely correct that the other party needs to, at some point, recognise that you aren't happy and be part of the effort to change the situation.
It boils down to whether you believe you partner has changed permanently into someone who isn't compatible with you and is persecuting you as a result, or if they are in an emotional hole that they'll eventually come out of to return as someone you love.
Defining between the two can be hard. There's plenty of chaps who use the rational of "deep down there is the woman I loved and still want to love" but she has to want to be that person again.
That's what I'm struggling with.It's absolutely correct that the other party needs to, at some point, recognise that you aren't happy and be part of the effort to change the situation.
It boils down to whether you believe you partner has changed permanently into someone who isn't compatible with you and is persecuting you as a result, or if they are in an emotional hole that they'll eventually come out of to return as someone you love.
Defining between the two can be hard. There's plenty of chaps who use the rational of "deep down there is the woman I loved and still want to love" but she has to want to be that person again.
First there was 6 years of ME chronic fatigue.
Then there was empty nest syndrome.
Then she had a cancer scare
Then the menopause
Then she was just f
king horribleThen Covid.
Then her dad dying (and her providing nursing care 24/7 whilst he died at home over a 2 week period)
Then her mum being unable to cope and moving in with us for 8 weeks, then January lockdown and her mum.moving back home
Then finding her mother had a heart problem, and trying to get her seen by the appropriate specialists.
Then.her mum being taken in an ambulance to hospital and her mum being in hospital confused and neglected.
Then her mum being brought back home in an ambulance, my wife fighting tooth and nail to get her the care package in place and finally nursing her 24/7 and being with her when she died.
Then arranging the funeral, and now having to start sorting through all the stuff that nobody really has space for.
Each time, rather than rely on me she's made it clear that I'm the worst husband in the world, so.ive watched her fight against me for 15 years. Every little stress, she blames me for. Every big problem, I'm told that I'm a b
d who does not care enough. She can manipulate any conversation into something that proves I don't care about her. If I do something kind. That's just me saying "look at me aren't I good" and if I do sometging that she decides she doesn't like that's proof "you don't care enough and are lazy. Selfish, mean, nasty"
I almost left today. She makes me cry every day.
I'm staying because the right thing is to be loyal and kind and try to help her through this.
But eventually this will end. I will just go.
king leave! LEAVE!!! Why are you or any other bloke in this thread putting yourself through such complete and utter torture....?!No woman on earth is worth such crap!
The spinner of plates said:
You’ve got a decision to make.
Whatever you choose, do it 100%.
It does not sound like a hard decision frankly. Whatever you choose, do it 100%.
Be strong, make the decision that works for you and be happy. And frankly, even if you are not that happy it is better than being married to someone who makes you cry every day.
Some people are just a drain on your life force - even if you love them; in fact especially when you love them.
Thinking of you my friend. You have one life only and you have given a lot of it to someone who clearly seems not to appreciate your gift any more.
Give yourself something instead.
Your mindset has already resigned to the marriage being unfixable. It does sound like she is resentful towards you.
Initially I was one of the few who suggested she needed your support and you should stick around. I'm not convinced now, not if you're upset daily and putting up with the emotional abuse.
You owe it to yourself to be loyal to your own happiness. If you're truly living in misery, you know what to do.
Initially I was one of the few who suggested she needed your support and you should stick around. I'm not convinced now, not if you're upset daily and putting up with the emotional abuse.
You owe it to yourself to be loyal to your own happiness. If you're truly living in misery, you know what to do.
Pit Pony said:
That's what I'm struggling with.
First there was 6 years of ME chronic fatigue.
Then there was empty nest syndrome.
Then she had a cancer scare
Then the menopause
Then she was just fking horrible
Then Covid.
Then her dad dying (and her providing nursing care 24/7 whilst he died at home over a 2 week period)
Then her mum being unable to cope and moving in with us for 8 weeks, then January lockdown and her mum.moving back home
Then finding her mother had a heart problem, and trying to get her seen by the appropriate specialists.
Then.her mum being taken in an ambulance to hospital and her mum being in hospital confused and neglected.
Then her mum being brought back home in an ambulance, my wife fighting tooth and nail to get her the care package in place and finally nursing her 24/7 and being with her when she died.
Then arranging the funeral, and now having to start sorting through all the stuff that nobody really has space for.
Each time, rather than rely on me she's made it clear that I'm the worst husband in the world, so.ive watched her fight against me for 15 years. Every little stress, she blames me for. Every big problem, I'm told that I'm a bd who does not care enough.
She can manipulate any conversation into something that proves I don't care about her. If I do something kind. That's just me saying "look at me aren't I good" and if I do sometging that she decides she doesn't like that's proof "you don't care enough and are lazy. Selfish, mean, nasty"
I almost left today. She makes me cry every day.
I'm staying because the right thing is to be loyal and kind and try to help her through this.
But eventually this will end. I will just go.
Awful.First there was 6 years of ME chronic fatigue.
Then there was empty nest syndrome.
Then she had a cancer scare
Then the menopause
Then she was just f
king horribleThen Covid.
Then her dad dying (and her providing nursing care 24/7 whilst he died at home over a 2 week period)
Then her mum being unable to cope and moving in with us for 8 weeks, then January lockdown and her mum.moving back home
Then finding her mother had a heart problem, and trying to get her seen by the appropriate specialists.
Then.her mum being taken in an ambulance to hospital and her mum being in hospital confused and neglected.
Then her mum being brought back home in an ambulance, my wife fighting tooth and nail to get her the care package in place and finally nursing her 24/7 and being with her when she died.
Then arranging the funeral, and now having to start sorting through all the stuff that nobody really has space for.
Each time, rather than rely on me she's made it clear that I'm the worst husband in the world, so.ive watched her fight against me for 15 years. Every little stress, she blames me for. Every big problem, I'm told that I'm a b
d who does not care enough. She can manipulate any conversation into something that proves I don't care about her. If I do something kind. That's just me saying "look at me aren't I good" and if I do sometging that she decides she doesn't like that's proof "you don't care enough and are lazy. Selfish, mean, nasty"
I almost left today. She makes me cry every day.
I'm staying because the right thing is to be loyal and kind and try to help her through this.
But eventually this will end. I will just go.
Please leave, for your own sanity, health, safety and self respect.
GCH said:
Pit Pony said:
That's what I'm struggling with.
First there was 6 years of ME chronic fatigue.
Then there was empty nest syndrome.
Then she had a cancer scare
Then the menopause
Then she was just fking horrible
Then Covid.
Then her dad dying (and her providing nursing care 24/7 whilst he died at home over a 2 week period)
Then her mum being unable to cope and moving in with us for 8 weeks, then January lockdown and her mum.moving back home
Then finding her mother had a heart problem, and trying to get her seen by the appropriate specialists.
Then.her mum being taken in an ambulance to hospital and her mum being in hospital confused and neglected.
Then her mum being brought back home in an ambulance, my wife fighting tooth and nail to get her the care package in place and finally nursing her 24/7 and being with her when she died.
Then arranging the funeral, and now having to start sorting through all the stuff that nobody really has space for.
Each time, rather than rely on me she's made it clear that I'm the worst husband in the world, so.ive watched her fight against me for 15 years. Every little stress, she blames me for. Every big problem, I'm told that I'm a bd who does not care enough.
She can manipulate any conversation into something that proves I don't care about her. If I do something kind. That's just me saying "look at me aren't I good" and if I do sometging that she decides she doesn't like that's proof "you don't care enough and are lazy. Selfish, mean, nasty"
I almost left today. She makes me cry every day.
I'm staying because the right thing is to be loyal and kind and try to help her through this.
But eventually this will end. I will just go.
Awful.First there was 6 years of ME chronic fatigue.
Then there was empty nest syndrome.
Then she had a cancer scare
Then the menopause
Then she was just f
king horribleThen Covid.
Then her dad dying (and her providing nursing care 24/7 whilst he died at home over a 2 week period)
Then her mum being unable to cope and moving in with us for 8 weeks, then January lockdown and her mum.moving back home
Then finding her mother had a heart problem, and trying to get her seen by the appropriate specialists.
Then.her mum being taken in an ambulance to hospital and her mum being in hospital confused and neglected.
Then her mum being brought back home in an ambulance, my wife fighting tooth and nail to get her the care package in place and finally nursing her 24/7 and being with her when she died.
Then arranging the funeral, and now having to start sorting through all the stuff that nobody really has space for.
Each time, rather than rely on me she's made it clear that I'm the worst husband in the world, so.ive watched her fight against me for 15 years. Every little stress, she blames me for. Every big problem, I'm told that I'm a b
d who does not care enough. She can manipulate any conversation into something that proves I don't care about her. If I do something kind. That's just me saying "look at me aren't I good" and if I do sometging that she decides she doesn't like that's proof "you don't care enough and are lazy. Selfish, mean, nasty"
I almost left today. She makes me cry every day.
I'm staying because the right thing is to be loyal and kind and try to help her through this.
But eventually this will end. I will just go.
Please leave, for your own sanity, health, safety and self respect.
During my divorce, we went for some counseling together, it really wasn’t what I was expecting, in the first session I thought it would be straight down to problems and blame.
Qu1. What was it that made you fall in love with the other person?
This was a good few minutes of discussing basically the way things were.
Qu2. When we you at your happiest in this relationship?
Threw me off balance and not at all what I was expecting, but the thing is, I had a LOT of happy times, some many good things to look back on, yes some tough moments, but generally for me there was much to miss
When I look at Pit Pony’s list - I just wonder - where are the happy moments you are striving to get back too?
Pit Pony said:
That's what I'm struggling with.
First there was 6 years of ME chronic fatigue.
Then there was empty nest syndrome.
Then she had a cancer scare
Then the menopause
Then she was just fking horrible
Then Covid.
Then her dad dying (and her providing nursing care 24/7 whilst he died at home over a 2 week period)
Then her mum being unable to cope and moving in with us for 8 weeks, then January lockdown and her mum.moving back home
Then finding her mother had a heart problem, and trying to get her seen by the appropriate specialists.
Then.her mum being taken in an ambulance to hospital and her mum being in hospital confused and neglected.
Then her mum being brought back home in an ambulance, my wife fighting tooth and nail to get her the care package in place and finally nursing her 24/7 and being with her when she died.
Then arranging the funeral, and now having to start sorting through all the stuff that nobody really has space for.
Each time, rather than rely on me she's made it clear that I'm the worst husband in the world, so.ive watched her fight against me for 15 years. Every little stress, she blames me for. Every big problem, I'm told that I'm a bd who does not care enough.
She can manipulate any conversation into something that proves I don't care about her. If I do something kind. That's just me saying "look at me aren't I good" and if I do sometging that she decides she doesn't like that's proof "you don't care enough and are lazy. Selfish, mean, nasty"
I almost left today. She makes me cry every day.
I'm staying because the right thing is to be loyal and kind and try to help her through this.
But eventually this will end. I will just go.
This doesn't sound great mate and it's easy for us to say on the outside. You sound like you've already mentally checked out of the marriage and it possibly can't be resolved?First there was 6 years of ME chronic fatigue.
Then there was empty nest syndrome.
Then she had a cancer scare
Then the menopause
Then she was just f
king horribleThen Covid.
Then her dad dying (and her providing nursing care 24/7 whilst he died at home over a 2 week period)
Then her mum being unable to cope and moving in with us for 8 weeks, then January lockdown and her mum.moving back home
Then finding her mother had a heart problem, and trying to get her seen by the appropriate specialists.
Then.her mum being taken in an ambulance to hospital and her mum being in hospital confused and neglected.
Then her mum being brought back home in an ambulance, my wife fighting tooth and nail to get her the care package in place and finally nursing her 24/7 and being with her when she died.
Then arranging the funeral, and now having to start sorting through all the stuff that nobody really has space for.
Each time, rather than rely on me she's made it clear that I'm the worst husband in the world, so.ive watched her fight against me for 15 years. Every little stress, she blames me for. Every big problem, I'm told that I'm a b
d who does not care enough. She can manipulate any conversation into something that proves I don't care about her. If I do something kind. That's just me saying "look at me aren't I good" and if I do sometging that she decides she doesn't like that's proof "you don't care enough and are lazy. Selfish, mean, nasty"
I almost left today. She makes me cry every day.
I'm staying because the right thing is to be loyal and kind and try to help her through this.
But eventually this will end. I will just go.
Goodluck with whatever you do, keep us updated, plenty of us here if you ever need a chat or some bad advice
Pit Pony said:
Muzzer79 said:
There can be a fine line between accepting an abusive relationship and accepting that your partner temporarily isn't his/herself due to a massive emotional trauma and seeking to support them through it.
It's absolutely correct that the other party needs to, at some point, recognise that you aren't happy and be part of the effort to change the situation.
It boils down to whether you believe you partner has changed permanently into someone who isn't compatible with you and is persecuting you as a result, or if they are in an emotional hole that they'll eventually come out of to return as someone you love.
Defining between the two can be hard. There's plenty of chaps who use the rational of "deep down there is the woman I loved and still want to love" but she has to want to be that person again.
That's what I'm struggling with.It's absolutely correct that the other party needs to, at some point, recognise that you aren't happy and be part of the effort to change the situation.
It boils down to whether you believe you partner has changed permanently into someone who isn't compatible with you and is persecuting you as a result, or if they are in an emotional hole that they'll eventually come out of to return as someone you love.
Defining between the two can be hard. There's plenty of chaps who use the rational of "deep down there is the woman I loved and still want to love" but she has to want to be that person again.
First there was 6 years of ME chronic fatigue.
Then there was empty nest syndrome.
Then she had a cancer scare
Then the menopause
Then she was just f
king horribleThen Covid.
Then her dad dying (and her providing nursing care 24/7 whilst he died at home over a 2 week period)
Then her mum being unable to cope and moving in with us for 8 weeks, then January lockdown and her mum.moving back home
Then finding her mother had a heart problem, and trying to get her seen by the appropriate specialists.
Then.her mum being taken in an ambulance to hospital and her mum being in hospital confused and neglected.
Then her mum being brought back home in an ambulance, my wife fighting tooth and nail to get her the care package in place and finally nursing her 24/7 and being with her when she died.
Then arranging the funeral, and now having to start sorting through all the stuff that nobody really has space for.
Each time, rather than rely on me she's made it clear that I'm the worst husband in the world, so.ive watched her fight against me for 15 years. Every little stress, she blames me for. Every big problem, I'm told that I'm a b
d who does not care enough. She can manipulate any conversation into something that proves I don't care about her. If I do something kind. That's just me saying "look at me aren't I good" and if I do sometging that she decides she doesn't like that's proof "you don't care enough and are lazy. Selfish, mean, nasty"
I almost left today. She makes me cry every day.
I'm staying because the right thing is to be loyal and kind and try to help her through this.
But eventually this will end. I will just go.
t over and over again - so what now? Seriously.Are you gonna come on here and keep repeating the problems or are you going to get the strength to put a plan in place?
Can't be healthy keep emphasising your wife's mental state and how you're treated.
Stop doing what you think you should do and start doing what should be done to make everyones life better.
Pit Pony said:
Muzzer79 said:
There can be a fine line between accepting an abusive relationship and accepting that your partner temporarily isn't his/herself due to a massive emotional trauma and seeking to support them through it.
It's absolutely correct that the other party needs to, at some point, recognise that you aren't happy and be part of the effort to change the situation.
It boils down to whether you believe you partner has changed permanently into someone who isn't compatible with you and is persecuting you as a result, or if they are in an emotional hole that they'll eventually come out of to return as someone you love.
Defining between the two can be hard. There's plenty of chaps who use the rational of "deep down there is the woman I loved and still want to love" but she has to want to be that person again.
That's what I'm struggling with.It's absolutely correct that the other party needs to, at some point, recognise that you aren't happy and be part of the effort to change the situation.
It boils down to whether you believe you partner has changed permanently into someone who isn't compatible with you and is persecuting you as a result, or if they are in an emotional hole that they'll eventually come out of to return as someone you love.
Defining between the two can be hard. There's plenty of chaps who use the rational of "deep down there is the woman I loved and still want to love" but she has to want to be that person again.
First there was 6 years of ME chronic fatigue.
Then there was empty nest syndrome.
Then she had a cancer scare
Then the menopause
Then she was just f
king horribleThen Covid.
Then her dad dying (and her providing nursing care 24/7 whilst he died at home over a 2 week period)
Then her mum being unable to cope and moving in with us for 8 weeks, then January lockdown and her mum.moving back home
Then finding her mother had a heart problem, and trying to get her seen by the appropriate specialists.
Then.her mum being taken in an ambulance to hospital and her mum being in hospital confused and neglected.
Then her mum being brought back home in an ambulance, my wife fighting tooth and nail to get her the care package in place and finally nursing her 24/7 and being with her when she died.
Then arranging the funeral, and now having to start sorting through all the stuff that nobody really has space for.
Each time, rather than rely on me she's made it clear that I'm the worst husband in the world, so.ive watched her fight against me for 15 years. Every little stress, she blames me for. Every big problem, I'm told that I'm a b
d who does not care enough. She can manipulate any conversation into something that proves I don't care about her. If I do something kind. That's just me saying "look at me aren't I good" and if I do sometging that she decides she doesn't like that's proof "you don't care enough and are lazy. Selfish, mean, nasty"
I almost left today. She makes me cry every day.
I'm staying because the right thing is to be loyal and kind and try to help her through this.
But eventually this will end. I will just go.
My original post you quoted was to point out that support is important but there has to be balance. It sounds like you’ve just been a punchbag.
You need to decide if there’s a chance of returning to happiness - as I said, your partner has to want to be that person again.
If you go, she’ll hate you and it will all be your fault. You’ll be the latest addition to her list of woe. But do what makes you happy long term.
You can’t make her want to love you.
bristolracer said:
Pit Pony said:
But eventually this will end. I will just go.
No it won't. There will be another crisis another reason you feel obliged to stay.
There will never be a good time to leave.
Pony, I’ll not be jumping on the ‘leave her’ bandwagon because only you really know what’s what behind the curtains.
But there are only three real outcomes depending on the actions you take:
1) no change. You continue as is and decide if the life you are leading is good enough for you. Nobody’s life is perfect, we all accept the pros and cons of our actions and choices.
2) stay together and improve. You work together to fix what is broken. It takes time, honestly and a will for both parties to emphasise and make structural change.
3) you part ways. You decide you’ve done all you can, that you’ll be happier forging a new path and accept you’ll run the emotional & financial gauntlet of the divorce process to achieve that goal.
That’s it really IMHO.
It sounds like you’re currently stuck in an unhappy limbo of frustration and indecision. You need to really think it through, pick a lane and then put your energies into doing it.
None of the options is easy, but such is life sometimes.
Good luck mate.
But there are only three real outcomes depending on the actions you take:
1) no change. You continue as is and decide if the life you are leading is good enough for you. Nobody’s life is perfect, we all accept the pros and cons of our actions and choices.
2) stay together and improve. You work together to fix what is broken. It takes time, honestly and a will for both parties to emphasise and make structural change.
3) you part ways. You decide you’ve done all you can, that you’ll be happier forging a new path and accept you’ll run the emotional & financial gauntlet of the divorce process to achieve that goal.
That’s it really IMHO.
It sounds like you’re currently stuck in an unhappy limbo of frustration and indecision. You need to really think it through, pick a lane and then put your energies into doing it.
None of the options is easy, but such is life sometimes.
Good luck mate.
mr_spock said:
This. Sounds like BPD brought on partly by PTSD. You can't fix this. She will only get help if she realises there's a problem, and you just taking it like a punch bag just makes it look like you.
Not sure I agree, PP said this goes back 15years. I know we live in woke times where every behaviour has a label, a cause, a reason (which absolves the person of responsibility).... but sometimes we just have to accept that some people are horrible narcissistic arses. And if that's the case here PP needs to get the hell out forthwith, she's not going to transform from that list to a loving accepting partner overnight (or, let's face it, ever).Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff