The PH Cigar Thread

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I've never smoked anything at £5 and under, at least not at UK prices. You're pretty much down in the dog rocket range, when a tenner can get you a good smoke. The way I see it, with cigars being a luxury item, I'd rather smoke one good cigar than two crap ones.

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A great smoke this evening, with Juan Martinez, vice president of Joya De Nicaragua cigars in attendance, and a few of his smokes going round. We tried the Joya Red and the Rosalones, the Red was a fairly middle of the road stick, intended as a cigar that could tempt new smokers, as it's going to be fairly cheap, mild-medium and nothing more than a cured tobacco flavour. The website says hints of nuts, but I didn't get that. Not a bad stick, but not the kind of body I look for in a smoke. The Rosalones was more up my street, and the feedback in the room tended to agree - but with a packed lounge of cigar hounds, big, robust flavours were always going to be more of a hit. The Rosalones was deeper and richer, with a bitter dark chocolate note on the exhale.

It was a top night, Juan was a really nice guy and obviously really loves his products and cigars as a whole. While Joya are looking to re-launch in the UK (having twice had presence here in their 47 year history that has disappeared as a result of their importers dying), once we had smoked both of their sticks on offer, Juan was more than happy to take people into the humidor and give them his personal recommendations. Suffice to say, he favours Nicaraguan tobacco, and I have to say that my assessment was in line with what he said he believes the traditional Nicaraguan tobacco profile to be - rich, full and peppery. A real class act, had plenty of time for all of us and for me, it was a great opportunity to meet someone who not only loves cigars, but is so intimately involved with getting tobacco from seed to stick to smoke.

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Miguel Alvarez said:

I really can't fault the Nicaraguan sticks. In fact for my latest order I decided to pick one of each from Nicaraguan section on Cgars. Hopefully I'll discover some new favourites.

Was there anything he picked that surprised you?

I didn't get any sticks at his recommendation, I just smoked the Joya Red and the Rosalonnes he brought along, but he was in the humidor for a while taking some of the guys through his favourites - not all of them Nicaraguan, but he did seem to favour New World over Cuban, which I generally find to be my style also. He knew all the ratings of the various cigars in the big cigar publications, and as someone who lives the cigar life, I can believe him when he says that he has smoked just about everything we had in our humidor! He did mention a cigar, one I believe Joya makes or has made that was pretty much just a bundle of the strongest ligero they could grow, he described it as a 6/5 in strength and said you practically cannot smoke it on an empty stomach, it's incredibly strong but apparently popular in the US market. I think I'd give that one a wide berth, I had an Alec Bradley Nica Puro that floored me, very full bodied and very strong.

I wish I'd got a photo with him to commemorate the night, I'd have liked to spend some more one on one time with him and really get into the detail, but everyone wanted a piece so he wasn't really sitting still long. Not only is the VP of Joya De Nicaragua, he's the president of the Nicaraguan tobacco association, he knows every aspect of their business intimately and his passion was obvious. Some blokes just smoke cigars, some really love them - he was definitely one of the latter, as I would say, is anyone who has gone to the effort to look into this thread on a regular basis.

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jonamv8 said:

As said in a previous post ive no real idea about cigars and none of my mates smoke them but i enjoy them. Started as a holiday thing but now once in a while back home.

Was at Malaga duty free yesterday and the difference in price was huge.

What should I be paying for something half decent?

Any recommendations on a middle of the road decent stick and what should they cost?

My tobacconist has Aurora 1495s in at the moment, about £8 a stick and a bloody good smoke for the price. Generally though, I find £10 and up to be the point where you want to start getting good stuff. At this price, the CAO Brazilia is my shout, it's quite rich and medium-full body, but it is a brilliant smoke, one of my favourite cigars and imo good enough to considered on par for flavour, construction, draw etc with sticks costing two or three times as much.

With regard to pricing, our tobacco duty is a killer. If you look at American cigar reviews, they agonise over a cigar, questioning whether or not it's worth $7 dollars, when the same stick in the UK is £16. Lucky gits!

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I don't really know what to suggest in this situation, I've not had a CAO Gold, only their Brazilia, which is a fantastic cigar but probably a bit full-flavoured for you. While I'm tempted to say that if you'll smoke Phillies makes me think you'd probably enjoy any old rubbish as long as it didn't have too much body or flavour, but I really only have experience in premium products.

My go-to recommendation for a light-medium cigar is the Gurkha Royal Challenge, the flavours are good enough that I know seasoned cigar lovers who choose them when they want an easy-going smoke. The Por Larrañaga Petit Coronas is a good choice too, or you could maybe try a Trinidad Reyes, they're considered a medium but I find them pretty easy to smoke, great flavours. If you're finding a cigar harsh, especially something as light as a CAO Gold maduro, you might be smoking too fast. Slow down and relax. I might have a Trinidad this weekend actually.

Speaking of the smokes, what I've really been enjoying lately has been a bit of pipe tobacco. My shop has some Samuel Gawith belds in, one of the top names in pipe tobacco, rare but very, very good. One I've been enjoying is just an un-sweetened blend, with natural sweetness from some black cavendish in the mix. It's slow, easy smoking and very rich and flavoursome, I bloody love it. Loads of smoke output, mouth-watering flavours and none of the tongue bite (a chemical burn from alkaline smoke) that I suffer from cased, artificially sweetened pipe tobaccos.

Sod this, I'm going out to the garden for a Punch Coronation.

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I'd be particularly interested to hear what you think of the Cohibra Siglo II - assuming that is what you've got there, I've got a few of them tucked away but have not tried one yet. The Punch Coronation is a solid stick, I think you'll enjoy it.

I think tonight I'll be the Arturo Fuente Epicures, with a bit of Samuel Gawith pipe tobacco thrown in for good measure.

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Cuchillo said:

This time around I think I will give the new world a go. The last ~10 years have been "purely" Cubans.

So, what to get?

TIA

Cuch

Depends what your palate is like tbh, I tend to rank cigars by body. Do you like mild, medium or full?

In other news, I tried another Oliva Serie V Melanio the other day, I wasn't that impressed by the first one I had but I enjoyed it a lot more second time around. A very rich, oily smoke that coats the mouth and tongue and delivers robust dark coffee flavours, with spice on the lips and pepper notes, there is a lot of ligero in the blend and it's the star of the show. Complex, involving and rewarding to smoke.

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In that case I'd recommend a few starting points. The Oliva Serie V Melanio, which I did a mini-review of above and the CAO Brazilia (such a good go-to stick) are both full bodied, big flavour smokes, rich and oily. The Oliva Serie O is a little bit lighter but still has a lot of body and flavour. The Aging Room M356 is a great stick, but some people find it to be quite powerful in terms of nicotine, I didn't find it too bad. The Alec Bradley Nica Puro is similar, very intense flavours, body thicker than Beyonce and packing a nicotine punch that will have some smokers sweating and feeling green.

You'll probably find that your money goes a bit further with New World cigars, flavour profiles tend to vary a bit more than Cubans, which is hardly surprising given they are blended from a wider range of tobaccos from a more varied geographical area. Whereas Cubans tend to be centered around the cured tobacco flavour - in my experience only, I might add, the NW cigars tend to bring in more varied flavours, with a lot of earth, leather, chocolate, coffee and wood tones. Of course, not that these are not present in Cubans to a degree, but I at least find the difference marked. It works out well for me as I prefer the wide variety of complex flavours the NW offers.

If your tastes are centered around the Cuban cured tobacco flavour which is typified by the Partagas P2 (the strongest of it's breed that I've yet tasted), I doubt you'll find anything like it in the NW, I've not had anything like it yet. I was smoking a Punch Coronation this afternoon and noting that it had those P2 flavour tones, though obviously in much smaller quantities than the Partagas, and while I get those notes in NW cigars, the NW on the whole is quite distinctly different to Cubans. Variety is the spice of life though, and I love them all.

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A busy night at my lounge, much sampling was done by all. I had another Aging Room M356, having had one previously, I wanted to give it another spin to really get a feel for it. I didn't enjoy it second time round, good construction and smoke output but man it was bitter, acrid and unpleasant. You get a lot of cigar for the money, but the last one I had was better in memory than this. Disappointment, I won't be bothering with these again.

I decided to wash that away with an Arturo Fuente Epicure, which I think is a great stick, never fails to impress.

There were a lot of Partagas P2 and E2s being smoked tonight, I really liked the P2 I had, but I'd have an E2 next time round - same blend, but the P2 is a piramidos, whereas the E2 is a standard untapered cigar, which I prefer.

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What a selection!

I've been smoking more of those Oliva Serie V Melanios, reckon I'll have another one tomorrow night, they are superb, such an oily, slick and satisfying smoke.

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TheHoof said:

Please could you explain the differences between the various Partagas varieties? I frequently see the D4 but what are the differences between the D,E and P series? Is it 'just' a shape thing or are there differences in the wrapper and/or filler?

The letter is the shape, number is the blend. For example, a Partagas 4 is the same combination of leaves, regardless of which shape you buy it in.

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Looks like the weather is nice, I hope it holds out and I'll have a Punch Coronation after work.

I've been hitting the Oliva Serie V sticks hard these past few smokes, really enjoying them at the moment, funny to think I was unimpressed when I first had one.

I also had an Alec Bradley Black Market Punk last Friday, I can't say it was up to much, just tasted bitter and had a sort of ash tray flavour on the finish. It was almost a blessing that it seemed to burn quite quickly!

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EJH said:

I tried a couple of the Black Markets and was similarly unimpressed; it was a flat and quite dull stick. Looked as though they were trying to make it appear like a Cohiba Maduro 5 but I had a suspicion that the wrapper was dyed (as opposed to dark and fermented) that colour.

The only sticks I've seen that were obviously dyed were the Rocky Patel Edge Maduro, which is oscuro in colour and apparently leaves dye on the lips when smoked. Not exactly desirable! Apparently natural oscuro is obtainable with a the best ligero and proper handling, but it's no doubt a slow and difficult process. I didn't think the Black Market Punks were that dark in wrapper, a dark shade but not dark enough to need to be dyed to get there.

The Alec Bradley Black Market is still a conundrum to me, at the same price there are some amazing cigars, I wonder what AB was aiming for with the blend as it's not really a cheap smoker, nor is it really pleasant. I've never met a smoker yet who has ever expressed an affection for bitter, ash-tray flavour smokes.

Here is a nice photo of a great stick that is cheaper than an AB Punk robusto.

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Be sure to check back and let us know what you think. Have a good trip!

I'm smoking a Flor de Oliva as I type this. This is a great stick, chocolately to start turning into a sweet coffee, with a creamy, nutty character in the background.

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I take them out of their tubes and store them in a humidor. I keep the tubes to transport them to wherever I plan to smoke them.

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GravelMachineGun said:

Does it actually make a difference then?

Yes, most tubed cigars slowly lose their moisture as only a very few cigars come in moisture tight tubes - I'm thinking the Ghurkas that come in glass tubes with wax seals. Normal screw or push tops aren't enough. If you don't keep them in a humidor, they'll dry out. If you keep them in the tubes with the lids on and leave them in a humidor you will slow the rate at which you can acclimate to your humidor. If you know your storage is at the right humidity, why take the gamble on the tubed cigar being right? Put them in the humidor for a few weeks and make sure they're spot on, then smoke them.

I bought a load of Cubans from a company in Geneva, when I got them they were so moist that they were swollen right up in their tubes and smoked terribly. After a few weeks in the humidor in their tubes with the lids off, they had shrunk down enough for me to be able to remove them from the tubes without risking damaging the wrappers. Now they just sit in a stack in the humidor, with tubes ready to go if I'm taking one out somewhere.

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sc0tt said:

Can I buy cigars here in the UK and take them to the Dominican Republic with me? Not from the airport, I mean online with duty paid. Will they be ok in my case in the hold?

Can anyone recommend a mixture pack online maybe of upto £80?

Nothing too heavy.

I'm sure you'd be ok with that, best to check the DR's rules in bringing tobacco in, but for £80 you not going to be taking more than 7-8 cigars tops, which will surely be well under their personal limit for bringing tobacco in for personal use. I'd just bung the cigars in my suitcase and forget about them.

You'll probably want a travel humidor to transport them, the DR will be hot and wet compared to the UK. You might just get away with a robust ziplock back if you're only going for a week and don't open and shut it too much. If you don't keep them in something to protect them from the high humidity, they'll quickly absorb moisture and will be too wet, they'll smoke badly and taste nasty too.

If you buy your cigars online you might well find they're not in ideal condition for smoking when you receive them, so you'll probably need to rest them for a few weeks in a tupperdore with a humidity pillow to get them right for the smoking. It will be easier just to go to a cigar shop in person - you're in London so you shouldn't struggle for choice.

The easiest thing to do would be to visit a shop right before you go on holiday, pick out a few sticks with the help of the tobacconist, get them straight from their humidor into a strong ziplock bag, take them on holiday and enjoy. Get the tobacconist to cut them in the shop, and get a butane jet lighter while you're there.

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sc0tt said:

Thank you for the info.

Happy not to take too many, I'd prefer quality. I'd have to trust a ziplock bag though as I don't have a humidor.

Can you recommend any shops local to East london?

How much would a jet lighter cost?

I'd totally agree, quality is much more important than quantity. I'd rather have 5 or 6 great sticks than 15 rubbish ones. I can't recommend any London shops personally, but my friends who go to London on business use James J. Fox in Harrods. I don't know if cigars are more expensive in London but for £80 you should be able to get 5-6 decent sticks, I'd go for a mix of Cuban and New World, you tend to get more tobacco for your cash with New World, and I find their flavours a bit more complex than Cubans, but it's good to have some Cuban stuff too to get a good mix. If you're not a regular smoker just ask your tobacconist to help you out with choosing a few.

You can get a jet lighter the size of a standard Bic pocket lighter for £1 and they don't last long, or ones with a bigger butane reservoir for a few quid, say a fiver, and they're refillable. No need to spend £50 on a fancy metal item, just whatever you do, don't use a normal cigarette lighter as it will make the cigar taste rank. Whatever you get, take a backup.

To light, hold the cigar at 45 degrees to the flame and toast the end, rotating the cigar to get an even burn. Once it's nicely charred (doesn't need to be glowing white hot) put it in your mouth and puff it while holding the flame to it. Once the flame jumps up as you draw, it's ready. Turn it around and blow on the foot, look check it's glowing orange all over, if it's not, give the black spots a quick blast with the lighter, and enjoy.

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Whoops, double post.

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Top cigar night for me, it was a night out for the regulars of my local cigar lounge, we headed to a pub in Northumberland for drinks, smokes and food. We arrived at the venue to our private terrace and started the smoke with a San Cristobal El Principe. This was a great choice for a pre-dinner smoke, it was quick and light, taking no more than half an hour for most of us and being a very light and easy smoke. No big, obvious flavour profiles here, just typical Cuban but lighter. Reminded me of the Punch Coronations I've been smoking in the garden, but with less body. It didn't colour my palate and I didn't need to drink the taste away for the food.

The food it should be said, was excellent, I had breaded langoustines and mussels which were absolutely terrific for a starter, and pork belly, black pudding and mash for the main. The food was excellent and I'll head back there just for another go at the menu.

After dinner, we went back out to the terrace, warmed handily by some very effective heat lamps, where each man found a Cuaba Distinguidos waiting, a truly excellent cigar. These are a figurado, with a tapered foot, the kind where you light the tiny tip and smoke it, using your draw to grow the cherry and get it working. It's a satisfying thing in itself, feeling the draw open up as you work at it, but not as satisfying as the rich woody flavours on offer. No pepper, no harshness or bitterness, just incredibly smooth, rich flavour from start to finish. Absolutely fantastic. Even though there our group numbered in the twenties, the cheeseboards brought to us could have served a hundred men, so I took ample lumps of stilton on crackers in between draws, with some red grapes to moisten my mouth again. Absolutely heavenly. I was glad to have the good weather, dry and windless and more than warm enough with the heat lamps after dinner, the conversation and drinks were in full flow and everyone had a great time.