Discussion
NNK said:
Ammo cost has never come into it for me as I only go to a range occasionally to sight them in.
I had a Marlin 336 Scout but didn't really get on with the lever action.
Never considered an AR type as I suspect there would be a lot of piss taking turning up with one (hunting not a range).
I think that in this country we still generally view people who favour modern 'military' style firearms as being odd. Verging on fantasists. I had a Marlin 336 Scout but didn't really get on with the lever action.
Never considered an AR type as I suspect there would be a lot of piss taking turning up with one (hunting not a range).
I've shot all my life. Have competed at national and international level at various disciplines in the past, shot at a very large number of venues in the UK and overseas. Outside of genuine military environments I have simply all too often found that those who favour pretend military weaponry are not people in comfortable being around. I wouldn't ever want us to move towards the American epidemic of pretend soldiering.
DonkeyApple said:
Outside of genuine military environments I have simply all too often found that those who favour pretend military weaponry are not people in comfortable being around. I wouldn't ever want us to move towards the American epidemic of pretend soldiering.
Very well put.I have walked out of the bush before and into a group head to toe in camo (acceptable as deer hunting), faces painted (a bit much), all carrying AR's and swigging premix rum & cokes.
Unfortunately here in NZ guns and drinking can still go hand in hand. I wont normally venture out on opening morning of duck season (its a big thing over here) as there is a high percentage of people that will sit in their maimai getting smashed before picking up a 12g semi and blasting at anything that comes near the lake/pond/drain.
DonkeyApple said:
pretend military weaponry are not people in comfortable being around. I wouldn't ever want us to move towards the American epidemic of pretend soldiering.
I assume you mean AR-15s.... the most popular rifle in the US and not an unusual sight at rifle clubs chambered in .22LR in the UK.I would have thought AR-15s are popular because they are modular so you can add bits you like and take away bits you don't like, because it is easy to put a scope on it while still having fully functional iron sights, because the ammunition they fire is relatively low cost, because you can easily change the stock length, because they are quite reliable, because it is easy to buy spare parts, because .223 bullets follow flat trajectories so are easy to shoot, because they have low recoil etc etc.
Seems like quite practical reasons to be a popular rifle. It's no different to any other semi-automatic rifle... is it just pretend military because it's not made of wood?
Edited by creampuff on Tuesday 19th April 21:54
creampuff said:
DonkeyApple said:
pretend military weaponry are not people in comfortable being around. I wouldn't ever want us to move towards the American epidemic of pretend soldiering.
I assume you mean AR-15s.... the most popular rifle in the US and not an unusual sight at rifle clubs chambered in .22LR in the UK.I would have thought AR-15s are popular because they are modular so you can add bits you like and take away bits you don't like, because it is easy to put a scope on it while still having fully functional iron sights, because the ammunition they fire is relatively low cost, because you can easily change the stock length, because they are quite reliable, because it is easy to buy spare parts, because .223 bullets follow flat trajectories so are easy to shoot, because they have low recoil etc etc.
Seems like quite practical reasons to be a popular rifle. It's no different to any other semi-automatic rifle... is it just pretend military because it's not made of wood?
Edited by creampuff on Tuesday 19th April 21:54
creampuff said:
DonkeyApple said:
They only serve one purpose and that is for people to get a boner out of pretending they are special forces. Strictly for muppets and saddos.
So the most popular rifle in the US is purchased only by sad cases who think they are in the military?Wanting to ponce about with a tool that is compromised so as to look like a military weapon is pathetic. Not efficient as target weapons and not efficient as hunting tools. The originals are designed for a specific set of criteria, primarily to be cheap, reliable and sufficiently accurate for a semi literate foot soldier to operate. Even Diemaco and other tools based on the AR-15 are no match for a proper rifle for the purpose of game or target. Total compromises for any legitimate civilian means. Toys for tools.
^ You did prone or bench rest shooting right? So you are looking for the last half MOA of accuracy and have as long as you like to make a follow up shot? And you like bolt action rifles (with lots of wood)?
Most people aren't interested in that level of accuracy, nor do they need it. They want something which is quite accurate, quite reliable and not too expensive because shooting is a hobby, not their job. So an AR-15 suits that quite well. You are really saying that your particular type of shooting is OK and everyone who wants to do something different is a nut case. Your comments about ultimate levels of accuracy apply to any semi-automatic in the same price range of an AR-15, which is most of them. If someone buys a semi-automatic with lots of wood which looks like a traditional bolt action rifle is that OK and the problem with an AR-15 is it looks "military"? Or you just don't like semi-automatic rifles in general?
Most people aren't interested in that level of accuracy, nor do they need it. They want something which is quite accurate, quite reliable and not too expensive because shooting is a hobby, not their job. So an AR-15 suits that quite well. You are really saying that your particular type of shooting is OK and everyone who wants to do something different is a nut case. Your comments about ultimate levels of accuracy apply to any semi-automatic in the same price range of an AR-15, which is most of them. If someone buys a semi-automatic with lots of wood which looks like a traditional bolt action rifle is that OK and the problem with an AR-15 is it looks "military"? Or you just don't like semi-automatic rifles in general?
Nope. I've competed in most disciplines including falling plate and even fibua style events. Small bore, full bore, clays, pistol, rifle, semi automatic, bolt action, muzzle loaders. I spent a very considerable period of my life competing as much as possible in as many disciplines as possible.
Same with game. Whether it's bunnies, foxes, birds, deer or boar.
AR-15 style weapons are compromised for every discipline because they are designed for a completely different purpose which is basically a squaddie laying down oppressive fire. Not a typical sporting discipline.
The last time I was at Bisley as a guest I spent a day with tools like the Diemaco at 200 yds and they are catagorically not target or sporting weapons. The replicas sold to 'enthusiasts' are so that oddballs can have their little soldiering fantasies.
Military weapons are designed specifically for military purpose, the purpose of killing other people. For anything else they are totally compromised and you have to ask just what anyone who isn't in a military environment is doing wanting to play at soldiers?
Same with game. Whether it's bunnies, foxes, birds, deer or boar.
AR-15 style weapons are compromised for every discipline because they are designed for a completely different purpose which is basically a squaddie laying down oppressive fire. Not a typical sporting discipline.
The last time I was at Bisley as a guest I spent a day with tools like the Diemaco at 200 yds and they are catagorically not target or sporting weapons. The replicas sold to 'enthusiasts' are so that oddballs can have their little soldiering fantasies.
Military weapons are designed specifically for military purpose, the purpose of killing other people. For anything else they are totally compromised and you have to ask just what anyone who isn't in a military environment is doing wanting to play at soldiers?
MKnight702 said:
So DA how do I fit into your world view?
I shoot an M38 Mosin, nice bolt action military rifle with plenty of wood. I shoot it because it is cheap and fun.
Ah, classic 21st century modern assault weapon. I shoot an M38 Mosin, nice bolt action military rifle with plenty of wood. I shoot it because it is cheap and fun.
I had a Lee Enfield for stickledown. And used a Mauser for <600 yards. I had some kind of Anschutz for .22 target and an old long barrelled BSA for rabbits.
DonkeyApple said:
They only serve one purpose and that is for people to get a boner out of pretending they are special forces. Strictly for muppets and saddos.
Utterly agree.I can remember shooting at Sywell a good few years back. Each and every bellend that turned up with a pump action (at a clay ground) had a plethora of useless tat to solider himself up a little- cartridge holder on side of stock, knife mounted on hip in a sheath, all sorts of stuff to make them look a little more like Rambo.
DonkeyApple said:
AR-15 style weapons are compromised for every discipline because they are designed for a completely different purpose which is basically a squaddie laying down oppressive fire. Not a typical sporting discipline.
Mmm, it seems to me an AR-15 is a versatile modular rifle, which is quite good at everything (though I have no interest in hunting, so wouldn't know what makes a good hunting rifle). Infact since it is modular, you can make it very very good at whatever you want except perhaps achieving ultimate accuracy at 1,200 yards, but then who does that. If you want to do a typical weekend shooting activity, which might be shooting a target with a rifle with iron sights at 100 yards, then an AR-15 will be no less accurate than some friendly safe bolt-action rifle with plenty of wood which is presumably purchased by people with no wannabe soldier complex. Do you think the same of other semi-automatic rifles that you think about AR-15s?Dusty964 said:
DonkeyApple said:
They only serve one purpose and that is for people to get a boner out of pretending they are special forces. Strictly for muppets and saddos.
Utterly agree.I can remember shooting at Sywell a good few years back. Each and every bellend that turned up with a pump action (at a clay ground) had a plethora of useless tat to solider himself up a little- cartridge holder on side of stock, knife mounted on hip in a sheath, all sorts of stuff to make them look a little more like Rambo.
My Mrs hated guns, until we went on a foreign trip, and I suggested going to the shooting range, she was very unsure, to her credit she gave it a go under the promise that she would never do it again if she didn't like it.
She absolutely loved it and asked me could she have a Glock 21 for christmas!
She absolutely loved it and asked me could she have a Glock 21 for christmas!
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