Divorcing empty nesters...
Discussion
So I've had confirmation that my ex has filed form A. I should get the documentation and an initial hearing date from the court soon.
I'm curious to know what she's going for. Our marital finances are 'simple' with there being no property or real capital, only modest pension contributions on both sides (derived from my Ltd Co, she never actually worked). Assets - essentially the contents of the house I retained - are backed by liabilities. Squaring the marital finances should not be difficult with no substantial transfers to worry about.
Child support is obviously out of scope and it looks like she wishes to depart from our family based arrangement (basically the leased Golf R and some cash) and go via the CMS which gives me a liability of about £1k/month based on last year's self assessment and the current childcare split.
So this leaves me curious to know what the hell has motivated her to launch proceedings above any beyond any simple desire to tie up the loose ends and finalise the divorce.
Who's willing to bet she's ticked the box for spousal maintenance?
I'm curious to know what she's going for. Our marital finances are 'simple' with there being no property or real capital, only modest pension contributions on both sides (derived from my Ltd Co, she never actually worked). Assets - essentially the contents of the house I retained - are backed by liabilities. Squaring the marital finances should not be difficult with no substantial transfers to worry about.
Child support is obviously out of scope and it looks like she wishes to depart from our family based arrangement (basically the leased Golf R and some cash) and go via the CMS which gives me a liability of about £1k/month based on last year's self assessment and the current childcare split.
So this leaves me curious to know what the hell has motivated her to launch proceedings above any beyond any simple desire to tie up the loose ends and finalise the divorce.
Who's willing to bet she's ticked the box for spousal maintenance?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The M5 is on BMW’s 0% PCP deep into negative equity thankfully - or it would be a marital assetThere’s nothing to settle - no big magic pot of money. All I’m worth to her is whatever she might be able to claw from my yet unearned future income, and the potential (as yet only speculative) clinical neg settlement but that’s years away.
I want a clean break and I want it now.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Hopefully we settle our finances which are straightforward, I push for a clean break citing no need for any ongoing claim on one another (my responsibility to the children is separate and managed by the CMS), and she says "but" he's likely to gain a load of money in the future and I might need some depending on my circumstances (autistic kid, homeless, sacrificed promising career as a nursery nurse etc.)My defence will be that the claim is hypothetical, merely speculative, assuming somebody admits or is judged to be liable, and also (strongly) that in any case the money would be awarded some years in the future on the basis of my own personal needs, future care requirements etc.
It will then be up to the court to decide whether to grant the clean break or leave it open so she has a future claim against me and anything I gain.
There's nothing she can do now to squeeze me on it because its such a far away uncertain prospect. No more than if she pointed out that I spent £1000/month on lottery tickets and therefore demanded a portion of my imminent jackpot.
theboss said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Hopefully we settle our finances which are straightforward, I push for a clean break citing no need for any ongoing claim on one another (my responsibility to the children is separate and managed by the CMS), and she says "but" he's likely to gain a load of money in the future and I might need some depending on my circumstances (autistic kid, homeless, sacrificed promising career as a nursery nurse etc.)My defence will be that the claim is hypothetical, merely speculative, assuming somebody admits or is judged to be liable, and also (strongly) that in any case the money would be awarded some years in the future on the basis of my own personal needs, future care requirements etc.
It will then be up to the court to decide whether to grant the clean break or leave it open so she has a future claim against me and anything I gain.
There's nothing she can do now to squeeze me on it because its such a far away uncertain prospect. No more than if she pointed out that I spent £1000/month on lottery tickets and therefore demanded a portion of my imminent jackpot.
When I went through mine (2008) we'd previously agreed a spousal maintenance payment in mediation, or I thought we had. 12 months later she took me to court hoping to bounce me in to a greater payment. Fortunately I'd had a pay rise but I still had to offer 1/3 of any future bonus to reach an affordable settlement on the day. Offering a committed share of future earnings may be a tune you can play, but as I understand it the court aren't likely to keep things open for the future, except for two standard provisions for child and spousal maintenance - although we didn't have to deal with a property either of us were keeping.
1. Either can go back to CMS after 12 months if circumstances change - in either direction for the absent parent so its as much in your interests as hers.
2. Spousal Maintenance usually comes with the caveat that it pauses after she cohabitates for 6 months and the liability ceases in full if she remarries.
Make sure you get any pensions dealt with in the FCO as well.
Collectingbrass said:
I've got a full & final settlement which wasn't a "clean break" as there was ongoing maintenance, but it is final. If I had to do it again I would die in a ditch to get the final settlement.
When I went through mine (2008) we'd previously agreed a spousal maintenance payment in mediation, or I thought we had. 12 months later she took me to court hoping to bounce me in to a greater payment. Fortunately I'd had a pay rise but I still had to offer 1/3 of any future bonus to reach an affordable settlement on the day. Offering a committed share of future earnings may be a tune you can play, but as I understand it the court aren't likely to keep things open for the future, except for two standard provisions for child and spousal maintenance - although we didn't have to deal with a property either of us were keeping.
1. Either can go back to CMS after 12 months if circumstances change - in either direction for the absent parent so its as much in your interests as hers.
2. Spousal Maintenance usually comes with the caveat that it pauses after she cohabitates for 6 months and the liability ceases in full if she remarries.
Make sure you get any pensions dealt with in the FCO as well.
I don't know if she will have much luck if she goes for spousal maintenance.When I went through mine (2008) we'd previously agreed a spousal maintenance payment in mediation, or I thought we had. 12 months later she took me to court hoping to bounce me in to a greater payment. Fortunately I'd had a pay rise but I still had to offer 1/3 of any future bonus to reach an affordable settlement on the day. Offering a committed share of future earnings may be a tune you can play, but as I understand it the court aren't likely to keep things open for the future, except for two standard provisions for child and spousal maintenance - although we didn't have to deal with a property either of us were keeping.
1. Either can go back to CMS after 12 months if circumstances change - in either direction for the absent parent so its as much in your interests as hers.
2. Spousal Maintenance usually comes with the caveat that it pauses after she cohabitates for 6 months and the liability ceases in full if she remarries.
Make sure you get any pensions dealt with in the FCO as well.
We have been separated and living independently of one another for 2 years, She was cohabiting for 6 months in that period (she jumped for a married affair partner, they couldn't hack it after 6 months, but are still in a relationship despite now living apart).
She will point to me and say I earn well (Ltd Co IT contractor) whereas she sacrificed her career for childcare. One of our kids has additional needs (autistic). She is on every benefit going including tax credits, housing benefit, DLA etc.
On the other hand I will say I am carrying all financial liabilities from the marriage, work self-empoyed with a permanent physical disability and have considerably decreased prospects on the open employment market. I've only maintained a good income meanwhile due to a combination of luck, determination, and the benevolence of my existing clients.
I don't know why she isn't happy with things as they stand because with the CMS calculation she'll have a combined £3.5k net monthly income without working - what's that equivalent to, a £60k gross salary? But no she wants more more more, and won't be happy until she breaks the camel's back.
theboss said:
I don't know why she isn't happy with things as they stand because with the CMS calculation she'll have a combined £3.5k net monthly income without working - what's that equivalent to, a £60k gross salary? But no she wants more more more, and won't be happy until she breaks the camel's back.
I guess she won't be happy until she knows she has got everything possible. I do like the fact you are optimistic that your health adn financial position will put things in your favour, but I guess from reading people's experiences, you also need to be prepared that these points in your favour may well be ignored. Worst case on PH was that poor chap who's wife took him to the absolute cleaners right up to his dying day (and probably beyond, but that was when the thread ended
)BrabusMog said:
This really isn't meant to be contentious but do you guys going through such bitter divorces think your marriage was ever happy? I am staggered at how malicious people can be to former loved ones.
According to much of the testimony we've read on this and other threads the person doing the nasty stuff after the breakdown is frequently the person who ended the relationship in the first place. The best way for them to handle the guilt is to think of the other person as a very bad person who deserves to be treated accordingly. Guilt motivates a lot of human behaviour.I can wholeheartedly say that we were a very happy family unit in the past - our relationship felt strong, we loved our kids and we had a good standard of living with her enjoying a non-working lifestyle. I had also taken on her young son as my own. He’s 18 now and still thinks of me as his dad. I’ll be having a pint with him in a few hours time and he’ll stay at mine whilst I’m there.
Things became more strained when I was working away a lot (we’re talking Mon-Fri, not 6 months) and at the same time our youngest started school. In hindsight that’s when she must have felt bored because she started an affair. It went on for several years with the relationship progressively deteriorating in that period, unsurprisingly.
Again, before she met this guy and things went bad, I really did envisage that we would spend our lives together. I had just started focussing on the future rather than the immediate needs of our young family. I opened SIPPs and ISAs and had good plans.
After the separation she turned into something truly unrecognisable. There’s a long thread you can read if you’re interested. Essentially she did the worst (jumping abruptly with this affair guy), then tried to come back when the grass wasn’t greener.
In spite of this, at no point did I ever cut her off or lose my temper, I have just quietly tried to foster stability in our children’s lives whilst considering the past to be water under the bridge. I don’t care for the woman one bit but my kids lives do revolve around her to a certain extent whether I like it or not. Now with my support she has regained a position of relative strength and seeks to have be straight back over the barrel by unilaterally imposing minimal contact terms and screwing me for maintenance. It’s the well-mastered duplicity i can’t handle - She acts reasonable and friendly to my face then gets the dagger out the moment I turn my back. She smiles to me in person telling me she wants to act by agreement then moments later I get an email from the CMS or her solicitor via mine.
I feel financially, physically and emotionally drained and fed up by the whole shower of s
t which has consumed the last 5 years of my life. I just want these financial proceedings out of the way as quickly as possible.
Also the fall out is so far reaching. My kids have all been badly affected by the separation. My fiercely bright and confident youngest (now 9) seems to have separation anxiety, tries to co-sleep, cries when her Mum goes away with partner etc. and has recently started saying she doesn't want to stay with me. My tax exposure has doubled at the same time I've been left trying to bankroll two households so I feel strained. My long term saving/investment/pension plans have been hugely disrupted (thankfully now rather than later when more would be at stake). I don't know if I'll be able to send my youngest to a good independent school which was my greatest ambition in the near future. The ex doesn't care about any of this stuff, in fact I don't even think she notices because she's still completely away with the fairies.
Things became more strained when I was working away a lot (we’re talking Mon-Fri, not 6 months) and at the same time our youngest started school. In hindsight that’s when she must have felt bored because she started an affair. It went on for several years with the relationship progressively deteriorating in that period, unsurprisingly.
Again, before she met this guy and things went bad, I really did envisage that we would spend our lives together. I had just started focussing on the future rather than the immediate needs of our young family. I opened SIPPs and ISAs and had good plans.
After the separation she turned into something truly unrecognisable. There’s a long thread you can read if you’re interested. Essentially she did the worst (jumping abruptly with this affair guy), then tried to come back when the grass wasn’t greener.
In spite of this, at no point did I ever cut her off or lose my temper, I have just quietly tried to foster stability in our children’s lives whilst considering the past to be water under the bridge. I don’t care for the woman one bit but my kids lives do revolve around her to a certain extent whether I like it or not. Now with my support she has regained a position of relative strength and seeks to have be straight back over the barrel by unilaterally imposing minimal contact terms and screwing me for maintenance. It’s the well-mastered duplicity i can’t handle - She acts reasonable and friendly to my face then gets the dagger out the moment I turn my back. She smiles to me in person telling me she wants to act by agreement then moments later I get an email from the CMS or her solicitor via mine.
I feel financially, physically and emotionally drained and fed up by the whole shower of s
t which has consumed the last 5 years of my life. I just want these financial proceedings out of the way as quickly as possible.Also the fall out is so far reaching. My kids have all been badly affected by the separation. My fiercely bright and confident youngest (now 9) seems to have separation anxiety, tries to co-sleep, cries when her Mum goes away with partner etc. and has recently started saying she doesn't want to stay with me. My tax exposure has doubled at the same time I've been left trying to bankroll two households so I feel strained. My long term saving/investment/pension plans have been hugely disrupted (thankfully now rather than later when more would be at stake). I don't know if I'll be able to send my youngest to a good independent school which was my greatest ambition in the near future. The ex doesn't care about any of this stuff, in fact I don't even think she notices because she's still completely away with the fairies.
Edited by theboss on Friday 13th July 16:30
singlecoil said:
BrabusMog said:
This really isn't meant to be contentious but do you guys going through such bitter divorces think your marriage was ever happy? I am staggered at how malicious people can be to former loved ones.
According to much of the testimony we've read on this and other threads the person doing the nasty stuff after the breakdown is frequently the person who ended the relationship in the first place. The best way for them to handle the guilt is to think of the other person as a very bad person who deserves to be treated accordingly. Guilt motivates a lot of human behaviour.She was fueled by pure and utter malicious vengeance after I moved out, on the basis that even she now believes the stories she span, so that she still thinks she is vindicated by her awful actions, even placing our eldest into care rather than releasing the funds to allow me to home her instead.
Just recently I made up a photo album for my youngest (11) who still lives with the ex at the moment, as my daughter has nothing to show of her early years growing up. I went from baby pics right through to recent, put ones of all of us in etc with a little story next to the pic. A couple of weeks later when I asked my daughter if she liked looking through the album she told me my ex wife had said to her that there were two many photos of me in it! how selfish is that, I put loads of her with the girls in the album.
The ex had 70% of everything in the divorce, now lives mortgage free in a nice house with a big redundancy and future pension package and still detests me 6 years later. She never had a penny to her name when we met even after working as a teacher for over 10 years. I never cheated, gambled, drank, lied, or put a finger on her, all I did was move out as I could no longer put up with her ice maiden ways.
At the end of the day, it sounds like doom and gloom, but I come on here primarily to vent. On a day to day basis all I generally think about the woman is "good fking riddance". The woman I'm partnered with now is an order of magnitude nicer in every possible way.
I think you've had an particularly raw deal, Paul, more than any of us probably.
king riddance". The woman I'm partnered with now is an order of magnitude nicer in every possible way.I think you've had an particularly raw deal, Paul, more than any of us probably.
Same here, I wish a thread like this was running just before i split so I could have steeled myself to how people can react after a separation, its venting for me mainly now as well, but always hoping it makes others aware of how far things can descend and the tricks that get played as well so guys can also prepare themselves.
PAUL500 said:
Same here, I wish a thread like this was running just before i split so I could have steeled myself to how people can react after a separation, its venting for me mainly now as well, but always hoping it makes others aware of how far things can descend and the tricks that get played as well so guys can also prepare themselves.
Like many, I did prepare myself for the eventual split, but also like many, I really didn't account for the malicious allegations and filthy lies to be made against me. And calling the police in front of my children during an argument where she alleged I struck her was pure evil. But because my children are young (7 & 6), no-one was willing to ask them to verify what happened, and nor would I have subjected them to it.Essence of the story, be prepared and then multiply by 100. Not in all cases obviously, but just be prepared for dirty tricks.
Guy banged up for trying to move back in! and then the usual harassment claims after.
Not prosecuted for anything of note either before.
What is the point of putting such people behind bars, that is his life ruined on top of everything else.
These women are snowflakes when it suits, and then hard as nails with the revenge
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5958005/Je...
Not prosecuted for anything of note either before.
What is the point of putting such people behind bars, that is his life ruined on top of everything else.
These women are snowflakes when it suits, and then hard as nails with the revenge
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5958005/Je...
PAUL500 said:
Guy banged up for trying to move back in! and then the usual harassment claims after.
Not prosecuted for anything of note either before.
What is the point of putting such people behind bars, that is his life ruined on top of everything else.
These women are snowflakes when it suits, and then hard as nails with the revenge
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5958005/Je...
Did you actually read the article?Not prosecuted for anything of note either before.
What is the point of putting such people behind bars, that is his life ruined on top of everything else.
These women are snowflakes when it suits, and then hard as nails with the revenge
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5958005/Je...
BrabusMog said:
PAUL500 said:
Guy banged up for trying to move back in! and then the usual harassment claims after.
Not prosecuted for anything of note either before.
What is the point of putting such people behind bars, that is his life ruined on top of everything else.
These women are snowflakes when it suits, and then hard as nails with the revenge
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5958005/Je...
Did you actually read the article?Not prosecuted for anything of note either before.
What is the point of putting such people behind bars, that is his life ruined on top of everything else.
These women are snowflakes when it suits, and then hard as nails with the revenge
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5958005/Je...
Plus how is he supposed to process his divorce if he is in prison and not allowed to communicate with his ex either!
Edited by PAUL500 on Tuesday 17th July 14:29
prand said:
I guess she won't be happy until she knows she has got everything possible. I do like the fact you are optimistic that your health adn financial position will put things in your favour, but I guess from reading people's experiences, you also need to be prepared that these points in your favour may well be ignored.
Worst case on PH was that poor chap who's wife took him to the absolute cleaners right up to his dying day (and probably beyond, but that was when the thread ended )
Yes I remember that thread. Although I wasn’t dying myself I had a glimpse of this sort of callous behaviour when I was laid up post spinal surgery with an ex who was actually taking advantage of the fact I was hospitalised and that my family stepped in to provide childcare in order for her to spend even more hours of the day screwing the guy she was planning to jump for. I remember my disappointment when she turned up during visiting hours without my daughter because obviously she’d been “busy” on the way. To do that sort of thing to somebody who is terminally ill is just beyond heartless. I think they are acting obliviously in their own little fantasy worlds at this point usually.Worst case on PH was that poor chap who's wife took him to the absolute cleaners right up to his dying day (and probably beyond, but that was when the thread ended
)So today I spoke to the CMS. They will back-date a new liability to late June which is when she contacted them. They have my 2017-18 SA so can see my income, and Have applied a variation on her request, taking divs into account.
The ex is adamant care will be split 1 day per week but I am contesting this and saying 2-3 as I’ve just started working at home to enable this. She is actually abroad now with her guy whilst I have the kids for 8 nights so should find herself on the back foot with the CMS in trying to claim that I hardly ever have them. Two childless foreign holidays so far this calendar year, for the woman who doesn’t have to lift a finger or earn anything to survive.
I’ll be getting the Golf R back tonight and cancelling the few other things I pay on her behalf as part of our current arrangement, she can have the CMS calculates payment every month from now on, and that will be the end of that hopefully. If she approaches me for any other contribution or payment she’ll get a firm no.
Whatever you do, make sure you have a clean break in your divorce.
What a leech!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5965629/Su...
What a leech!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5965629/Su...
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