Travellers.......

[yellowjack]

A single-crew police car was at our latest manifestation of travelling synchronised caravan display teams.

They appear to have broken in to the recently vacated (and up for sale) "serviced hardstanding" that was one of the M3 Smart Motorway works depots at Jct 4a... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3035576,-0.79421...
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3034416,-0.79320...

They must have cut through the padlock on the barrier from Minley Road/Sandy Lane, then cut through the locks securing the compound itself. They were still moving caravans into position when the police rolled up and blocked the gate. No idea what the police will do about it, but at least one of them is surely guilty of "Breaking" and the rest of them of "And Entering". Then there's the "Criminal Damage" done to locks, barriers, and fences. And isn't it also "Aggravated Trespass" too?

I'm pretty sure if any of us took a grinder to a padlock or gate, and broke in to set up home there, then we'd get very little sympathy from the Magistrate's Bench.

I didn't cycle past the site on my way back, so I don't know if they're still there. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised and find that they've swiftly been moved on? Or more likely not...



More fool the tight gits who are advertising the site for sale/to let if the travelers had their job of finding the site made easier by advertising it. If the caravan enthusiasts are true to form it'll need a bio-hazard crew to clean up the land after they leave, and it'll cost the landowner a small fortune to get it done. Then there'll be the bill for any "services" they steal, which'll probably amount to electricity and water. No idea if it's got a foul water sewer connection though. I've no idea what any legitimate business would want with a "circa 0.15 acre serviced compound" adjacent to a motorway slip road, but with no direct access to the motorway. Still, it's probably preferable to them turning a kiddies playground and adjacent grassed open space into a toilet, which was their MO for the past few years.

[CAPP0]

yellowjack said:

They must have cut through the padlock on the barrier from Minley Road/Sandy Lane, then cut through the locks securing the compound itself. They were still moving caravans into position when the police rolled up and blocked the gate. No idea what the police will do about it, but at least one of them is surely guilty of "Breaking" and the rest of them of "And Entering". Then there's the "Criminal Damage" done to locks, barriers, and fences. And isn't it also "Aggravated Trespass" too?

I'm pretty sure if any of us took a grinder to a padlock or gate, and broke in to set up home there, then we'd get very little sympathy from the Magistrate's Bench.

They never cut padlocks, or chains, or break down wooden fences, or use trucks to force metal gates. They are simply extraordinarily lucky that they frequently manage to happen upon areas of land where somebody before them has unfortunately broken in, and then they believe that they have a right to enter any unprotected land.

Sometimes, members of the public are able to video the damage being done in order for the land to become insecure, but fortunately for the travellers, the law-breakers are never one of their group, so they can't be prosecuted for it.

[eltax91]

CAPP0 said:

They never cut padlocks, or chains, or break down wooden fences, or use trucks to force metal gates. They are simply extraordinarily lucky that they frequently manage to happen upon areas of land where somebody before them has unfortunately broken in, and then they believe that they have a right to enter any unprotected land.

Sometimes, members of the public are able to video the damage being done in order for the land to become insecure, but fortunately for the travellers, the law-breakers are never one of their group, so they can't be prosecuted for it.

I thought their MO was to get the toerag and feral little darlings to do the dirty work. Can’t arrest someone under 16 for such and act?

[hoagypubdog]

And they'd never do this .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43813364

[Andy 308GTB]

hoagypubdog said:

And they'd never do this .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43813364

"[The owners had] taken their rubbish out to fly-tip and at the same time taken a sick and injured horse along with it," she explained.
If only I were Sherlock Holmes, I could possibly make a connection here...

[CAPP0]

eltax91 said:

CAPP0 said:

They never cut padlocks, or chains, or break down wooden fences, or use trucks to force metal gates. They are simply extraordinarily lucky that they frequently manage to happen upon areas of land where somebody before them has unfortunately broken in, and then they believe that they have a right to enter any unprotected land.

Sometimes, members of the public are able to video the damage being done in order for the land to become insecure, but fortunately for the travellers, the law-breakers are never one of their group, so they can't be prosecuted for it.

I thought their MO was to get the toerag and feral little darlings to do the dirty work. Can’t arrest someone under 16 for such and act?

My post was sarcastic. Of course they break down whatever they need to to get in, but they deny it and in the absence of any proof they can't be touched.

Ironically, even in the presence of proof it appears they can't be (or at least aren't) touched. We have had residents here in the village video them smashing fences down, cutting locks on gates, etc, but when this is shown to the police, nothing is done. Presumably because persecuted, because minority, because ethnic, blah blah.

[troika]

Andy 308GTB said:

hoagypubdog said:

And they'd never do this .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43813364

"[The owners had] taken their rubbish out to fly-tip and at the same time taken a sick and injured horse along with it," she explained.
If only I were Sherlock Holmes, I could possibly make a connection here...

As always, if you or I behaved in such a manner (not that I can imagine any normal person treating an animal like this) we would, quite rightly, be prosecuted for multiple offences. Marvellous isn’t it.

[yellowjack]

troika said:

Andy 308GTB said:

hoagypubdog said:

And they'd never do this .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43813364

"[The owners had] taken their rubbish out to fly-tip and at the same time taken a sick and injured horse along with it," she explained.
If only I were Sherlock Holmes, I could possibly make a connection here...

As always, if you or I behaved in such a manner (not that I can imagine any normal person treating an animal like this) we would, quite rightly, be prosecuted for multiple offences. Marvellous isn’t it.

Not a quarter of a mile from where our current "infestation" has turned up, this happened back in 2011...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-141...
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/baying-thugs...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013181/Ga...

Not sure if the police who were "hunting for those involved" ever found anyone to charge, but it wouldn't take the brains of an Archbishop to work out where to start looking. But hey? Had enough of your old, worn out horse? Don't bother with expensive vets bills, or getting it a stable so it can live out it's days in relative comfort. Just lash the poor, terrified beast to a cart and drive it into a lake to drown. Then drop the bill for recovering and disposing of the carcass on local taxpayers. And horrify some innocent onlookers (many of whom will have been children out to feed the ducks) while you're at it.

I've got no issue with the fact that some of them choose a different way of living to me. That's entirely up to them, and just because I don't choose to trundle around the country in a caravan, it doesn't necessarily make it wrong. It's just the intimidation, criminality, and general thuggery that comes with them that crimps my st...

[troika]

yellowjack said:

Not a quarter of a mile from where our current "infestation" has turned up, this happened back in 2011...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-141...
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/baying-thugs...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013181/Ga...

Not sure if the police who were "hunting for those involved" ever found anyone to charge, but it wouldn't take the brains of an Archbishop to work out where to start looking. But hey? Had enough of your old, worn out horse? Don't bother with expensive vets bills, or getting it a stable so it can live out it's days in relative comfort. Just lash the poor, terrified beast to a cart and drive it into a lake to drown. Then drop the bill for recovering and disposing of the carcass on local taxpayers. And horrify some innocent onlookers (many of whom will have been children out to feed the ducks) while you're at it.

I've got no issue with the fact that some of them choose a different way of living to me. That's entirely up to them, and just because I don't choose to trundle around the country in a caravan, it doesn't necessarily make it wrong. It's just the intimidation, criminality, and general thuggery that comes with them that crimps my st...

Words literally fail me.

[Zetec-S]

yellowjack said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013181/Ga...

note at end of article said:

It has been brought to our attention that one witness account described the incident as an accident which occurred after the pony trap sank to the bottom of the lake. The word ‘Gypsy’ has been removed from the article following conflicting reports regarding the identities of those involved.

bks

[troika]

Zetec-S said:

yellowjack said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013181/Ga...

note at end of article said:

It has been brought to our attention that one witness account described the incident as an accident which occurred after the pony trap sank to the bottom of the lake. The word ‘Gypsy’ has been removed from the article following conflicting reports regarding the identities of those involved.

bks

Indeed. Complete horse st.

[troika]

Why is there no organisation that seeks to hold such behaviour (and cruelty to animals in this case) to account? Councils seem to shift problems on to the next borough and the police seem to do anything to avoid confrontation with this particular group.

I was out and about over the weekend and saw a new M140 exiting a car park with a couple of shirtless, lager drinking louts trying to hang off the doors as it screamed off down a narrow residential street far too quickly. I wonder what on earth is going on, then I hear the twang of all the f’s and c’s and it becomes horribly clear (I then see a convoy of horse and carts so swiftly go elsewhere...). We have drinking in an alcohol free zone, dangerous driving and anti social behaviour all in the space of a few seconds. I’d also wager they hadn’t bought a ticket for the pay and display, too busy shouting obscenities at other drivers. I’d also be very interested to understand the source of funds for said £40K vehicle. If you or I carried on in this manner, there is a good chance we’d end up in a cell. Why can’t they be held accountable for offences committed under the law of this land in the same way you or I would be? I’m genuinely puzzled.

[Timmy40]

troika said:

Why is there no organisation that seeks to hold such behaviour (and cruelty to animals in this case) to account? Councils seem to shift problems on to the next borough and the police seem to do anything to avoid confrontation with this particular group.

If you have no address, no bank accounts, no employer then what exactly can the state do to sanction you? The whole system is built around a population who co-operate with the system even if they sometimes temporarily deviate from it, e.g. do something daft whilst drunk. When confronted with a large group of people who simply refuse to co-operate and who don't work within/need the structures most people do there's not much they can do.

[Pilchard]

But isn't this just anarchy by another name?

Regardless of whether a group of people have a degree of protection based on their 'history' surely they must behave in accordance with the laws of the land?

Just because they have no permanent address, employer, bank account, etc they shouldn't be above this. Otherwise that would go for any homeless person too.

[AstonZagato]

Timmy40 said:

troika said:

Why is there no organisation that seeks to hold such behaviour (and cruelty to animals in this case) to account? Councils seem to shift problems on to the next borough and the police seem to do anything to avoid confrontation with this particular group.

If you have no address, no bank accounts, no employer then what exactly can the state do to sanction you? The whole system is built around a population who co-operate with the system even if they sometimes temporarily deviate from it, e.g. do something daft whilst drunk. When confronted with a large group of people who simply refuse to co-operate and who don't work within/need the structures most people do there's not much they can do.

They can take uninsured and untaxed vehicles. They can follow them and try to catch them red handed. Lots of things they can do. Make it difficult not to adhere to the behavioural norms of society. Interestingly, their lives would probably improve. They'd get a warmer welcome wherever they went, their kids would get a better education, they'd even integrate better - so fewer birth defects.

[Timmy40]

Pilchard said:

But isn't this just anarchy by another name?

Regardless of whether a group of people have a degree of protection based on their 'history' surely they must behave in accordance with the laws of the land?

Just because they have no permanent address, employer, bank account, etc they shouldn't be above this. Otherwise that would go for any homeless person too.

If when you went to arrest a homeless person several hundred other homeless people appeared ( armed ) to prevent the arrest that would be true. Travellers move around in large notoriously agressive groups ( except when they are tying dogs together and hiding in bushes in order to surprise bum passers by ).

[CAPP0]

troika said:

Why is there no organisation that seeks to hold such behaviour (and cruelty to animals in this case) to account? Councils seem to shift problems on to the next borough and the police seem to do anything to avoid confrontation with this particular group.

I was out and about over the weekend and saw a new M140 exiting a car park with a couple of shirtless, lager drinking louts trying to hang off the doors as it screamed off down a narrow residential street far too quickly. I wonder what on earth is going on, then I hear the twang of all the f’s and c’s and it becomes horribly clear (I then see a convoy of horse and carts so swiftly go elsewhere...). We have drinking in an alcohol free zone, dangerous driving and anti social behaviour all in the space of a few seconds. I’d also wager they hadn’t bought a ticket for the pay and display, too busy shouting obscenities at other drivers. I’d also be very interested to understand the source of funds for said £40K vehicle. If you or I carried on in this manner, there is a good chance we’d end up in a cell. Why can’t they be held accountable for offences committed under the law of this land in the same way you or I would be? I’m genuinely puzzled.

Pilchard said:

But isn't this just anarchy by another name?

Regardless of whether a group of people have a degree of protection based on their 'history' surely they must behave in accordance with the laws of the land?

Just because they have no permanent address, employer, bank account, etc they shouldn't be above this. Otherwise that would go for any homeless person too.

Which rather neatly takes us back to page 1 of this thread.

TL:DR Travellers can (and will) do whatever the fk they like, whenever they like, wherever they like, as often as they like and for as long as they like, and nobody with any authority to to them will ever stand up to them and deal with the issue. regardless of how many crimes are committed.

They're not known as DAYLs for no reason.

Edited by CAPP0 on Saturday 28th April 10:33

[troika]

troika said:

Why is there no organisation that seeks to hold such behaviour (and cruelty to animals in this case) to account? Councils seem to shift problems on to the next borough and the police seem to do anything to avoid confrontation with this particular group.

I was out and about over the weekend and saw a new M140 exiting a car park with a couple of shirtless, lager drinking louts trying to hang off the doors as it screamed off down a narrow residential street far too quickly. I wonder what on earth is going on, then I hear the twang of all the f’s and c’s and it becomes horribly clear (I then see a convoy of horse and carts so swiftly go elsewhere...). We have drinking in an alcohol free zone, dangerous driving and anti social behaviour all in the space of a few seconds. I’d also wager they hadn’t bought a ticket for the pay and display, too busy shouting obscenities at other drivers. I’d also be very interested to understand the source of funds for said £40K vehicle. If you or I carried on in this manner, there is a good chance we’d end up in a cell. Why can’t they be held accountable for offences committed under the law of this land in the same way you or I would be? I’m genuinely puzzled.

Surprise surprise. This week several rural properties have been robbed. Quads, chainsaws, tools etc. This is in an area of effectively zero crime. Sherlock Holmes need not apply to help solve this one. It’s just ridiculous.

[ChocolateFrog]

Timmy40 said:

troika said:

Why is there no organisation that seeks to hold such behaviour (and cruelty to animals in this case) to account? Councils seem to shift problems on to the next borough and the police seem to do anything to avoid confrontation with this particular group.

If you have no address, no bank accounts, no employer then what exactly can the state do to sanction you? The whole system is built around a population who co-operate with the system even if they sometimes temporarily deviate from it, e.g. do something daft whilst drunk. When confronted with a large group of people who simply refuse to co-operate and who don't work within/need the structures most people do there's not much they can do.

Exactly. The system is built on compliance and fear of consequences. If you're law abiding, with a job, credit rating, reputation then you have something the state can use against you very easily. They even get you to fill in all the incriminating paperwork for them, and we do.

It gets very difficult for them if you don't cooperate.

[troika]

ChocolateFrog said:

Timmy40 said:

troika said:

Why is there no organisation that seeks to hold such behaviour (and cruelty to animals in this case) to account? Councils seem to shift problems on to the next borough and the police seem to do anything to avoid confrontation with this particular group.

If you have no address, no bank accounts, no employer then what exactly can the state do to sanction you? The whole system is built around a population who co-operate with the system even if they sometimes temporarily deviate from it, e.g. do something daft whilst drunk. When confronted with a large group of people who simply refuse to co-operate and who don't work within/need the structures most people do there's not much they can do.

Exactly. The system is built on compliance and fear of consequences. If you're law abiding, with a job, credit rating, reputation then you have something the state can use against you very easily. They even get you to fill in all the incriminating paperwork for them, and we do.

It gets very difficult for them if you don't cooperate.

It’s not about cooperation, it’s about what’s right and wrong. They don’t fear consequences because there rarely are any. When a law abiding citizen, or even the police stand up to them, all merry hell breaks loose.