Travellers.......
Discussion
CAPP0 said:
OK, fair enough. Sorry, I just get massively frustrated by their untouchable status. Even when you stand next to a uniformed PC and jointly watch a traveller committing a crime, and ask them to intervene, they will still do nothing. I genuinely don't believe that increasing the stats will achieve anything, they have more than enough data to take action/make a change as it is, and still they do absolutely nothing.
However, make some comments to said Bobby about diddies or pykies & I suspect you'd have been issued with a warning....FiF said:
Interestingly we took the dog for a forest walk yesterday evening. When we arrived there were some cars in the car park and a motor caravan conversion stuck in one corner. An hour later we got back to the car, just the van and us, assumption being that they were going to wild camp, not permitted on FC land but that's between them and the local Forestry Comm'n bods.
What wasn't acceptable was that they had dragged a fairly substantial tree branch across the road blocking access. They didn't appear amused when I dragged it right out of the way to leave.
As before you will have to be careful what you wish for. Law of unintended consequences couple with over enthusiastic enforcement, could see Mr and Mrs Molehusband nicked for stopping with their caravan to let the dog out for a slash and brew a cuppa. The problem children will carry on as before flicking the V's as they don't give a stuff for the law, unless they choose it's in their personal direct interest. Whilst ever some are the gang with the biggest teeth they will get away with it. The police ought to be that but for many reasons that horse has bolted.
To be honest, it boils down to "ask permission first", which is a common courtesy.What wasn't acceptable was that they had dragged a fairly substantial tree branch across the road blocking access. They didn't appear amused when I dragged it right out of the way to leave.
As before you will have to be careful what you wish for. Law of unintended consequences couple with over enthusiastic enforcement, could see Mr and Mrs Molehusband nicked for stopping with their caravan to let the dog out for a slash and brew a cuppa. The problem children will carry on as before flicking the V's as they don't give a stuff for the law, unless they choose it's in their personal direct interest. Whilst ever some are the gang with the biggest teeth they will get away with it. The police ought to be that but for many reasons that horse has bolted.
It opens the door for people to make money from it. renting out their field, and naturally, paying tax on the income. Local traders get to supply portable toilets, skips etc... and the settlers are gone in a few days. Leaving everything in the state they found it. Naturally, it would be up to the field owner to agree to such an undertaking.
Wild camping is for the most part, illegal anyway. This would, at worst. encourage them into campsites.
The caveat I have been thinking about the most is the homeless. Perhaps the money saved from clean up operations and generated from additional taxes could be used to open some new shelters.
Prizam said:
To be honest, it boils down to "ask permission first", which is a common courtesy.
It opens the door for people to make money from it. renting out their field, and naturally, paying tax on the income. Local traders get to supply portable toilets, skips etc... and the settlers are gone in a few days. Leaving everything in the state they found it. Naturally, it would be up to the field owner to agree to such an undertaking.
Wild camping is for the most part, illegal anyway. This would, at worst. encourage them into campsites.
The caveat I have been thinking about the most is the homeless. Perhaps the money saved from clean up operations and generated from additional taxes could be used to open some new shelters.
Not many homeless have cars, cabs, motorhomes or caravans. When was the last time you saw a traveller community in tents? Wild campers can also be saved by a 3 or more type rule.It opens the door for people to make money from it. renting out their field, and naturally, paying tax on the income. Local traders get to supply portable toilets, skips etc... and the settlers are gone in a few days. Leaving everything in the state they found it. Naturally, it would be up to the field owner to agree to such an undertaking.
Wild camping is for the most part, illegal anyway. This would, at worst. encourage them into campsites.
The caveat I have been thinking about the most is the homeless. Perhaps the money saved from clean up operations and generated from additional taxes could be used to open some new shelters.
Rude-boy said:
Not many homeless have cars, cabs, motorhomes or caravans. When was the last time you saw a traveller community in tents? Wild campers can also be saved by a 3 or more type rule.
And if homeless did something illegal police wouldn't simply ignore like nothing's going on.Sam993 said:
Rude-boy said:
Not many homeless have cars, cabs, motorhomes or caravans. When was the last time you saw a traveller community in tents? Wild campers can also be saved by a 3 or more type rule.
And if homeless did something illegal police wouldn't simply ignore like nothing's going on.It really has got to the point that the constant flouting of the laws if the land and failure of those whose job it is to protect the largely law abiding majority is going to lead to people finding their own ways to stop the problem.
Frankly given the nature of some people who are not exactly Lilly white it would not surprise me if something very serious happens that will force the hands of others. I have absolutely no intentions of doing anything silly and no need to either but how long before a wronged party decides to lob a few bottles with rags at the gas cylinders of a few of the lovable scamps?
Rude-boy said:
This is quite true. But then there are other laws that affect them. The issue in hand is how to deal with those who cause problems, not how to protect unfortunates which is a different topic!
It really has got to the point that the constant flouting of the laws if the land and failure of those whose job it is to protect the largely law abiding majority is going to lead to people finding their own ways to stop the problem.
Frankly given the nature of some people who are not exactly Lilly white it would not surprise me if something very serious happens that will force the hands of others. I have absolutely no intentions of doing anything silly and no need to either but how long before a wronged party decides to lob a few bottles with rags at the gas cylinders of a few of the lovable scamps?
Well, I think an old boy did kill one of them who was in his house recently, so that's a start.............It really has got to the point that the constant flouting of the laws if the land and failure of those whose job it is to protect the largely law abiding majority is going to lead to people finding their own ways to stop the problem.
Frankly given the nature of some people who are not exactly Lilly white it would not surprise me if something very serious happens that will force the hands of others. I have absolutely no intentions of doing anything silly and no need to either but how long before a wronged party decides to lob a few bottles with rags at the gas cylinders of a few of the lovable scamps?
I was wondering the other day at the lack of anti traveller type vigilante groups when the seem to be plenty chasing after another type of criminal.
I guess maybe because one involves actual effort and the other is mostly just a convienient cover for people to disguise their own online noncing.
I guess maybe because one involves actual effort and the other is mostly just a convienient cover for people to disguise their own online noncing.
A case local to me:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-he...
Not sure I like the idea of anyone driving around with a loaded shotgun but they've got a lot of local support
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-he...
Not sure I like the idea of anyone driving around with a loaded shotgun but they've got a lot of local support
Robertj21a said:
Well, I think an old boy did kill one of them who was in his house recently, so that's a start.............
That was self defence.What worries me is that one day someone is going to to out with the intent to attack the travellers. Whilst I am sure there are some that would rejoice at this it is likely to prove counter productive.
The most difficult thing about imposing the rule of law on those who have no regard for it is that you must stay within the law or else you are no better. Of course they can pick and chose which laws they like whilst the Police are too scared to deal with the monster they have allowed to get out of control.
If they spent half the time enforcing the rules of the road alone on them that they do on the rest of society then evidence of other criminal activity will be easier to collect and deal with.
For a start handling stolen goods is one offence that can be proved with far more ease than the theft. Stop untaxed car find stolen goods job done. Not enough evidence to to do that? Okay just seize stolen goods and impound car. Not hard.
It really is about time someone reminded people that the job of the Police should firstly be the PREVENTION of crime.
Thing is the local force a few years back did have operations where they would go out and stop vehicles with no tax, insurance etc. When you looked at reports the majority of vehicles were of the Transit type, and the drivers were itinerant metal traders, not my description, but as reported including local media.
Not seen any of these recently, but then with the cutbacks the force is currently on its knees.
Not seen any of these recently, but then with the cutbacks the force is currently on its knees.
rfsteel said:
From the consultation document preface:" . . . travelling community, the vast majority of whom are law abiding citizens . . . "
Citation required?
irocfan said:
CAPP0 said:
OK, fair enough. Sorry, I just get massively frustrated by their untouchable status. Even when you stand next to a uniformed PC and jointly watch a traveller committing a crime, and ask them to intervene, they will still do nothing. I genuinely don't believe that increasing the stats will achieve anything, they have more than enough data to take action/make a change as it is, and still they do absolutely nothing.
However, make some comments to said Bobby about diddies or pykies & I suspect you'd have been issued with a warning....
t broke into the local station car park and ensconced themselves for a couple of weeks. Locals were voicing their concerns on social media etc and the police issued a statement saying derogatory comments would not be tolerated!The local police facebook page seemed more interested in what the f
king police station cat was up to!!I half expect this scum to make a reappearance sometime this summer.
Cliftonite said:
rfsteel said:
From the consultation document preface:" . . . travelling community, the vast majority of whom are law abiding citizens . . . "
Citation required?
ks about how travellers are law abiding decent citizens. Ironically council tax collection from.legal camps is about 17% vs 95% from normal people.Greenham Common seems to be the latest place around here- turned up on Saturday morning and parked up in an auction houses car park, across the road from the security hut.
really feel for the business- they are basically shut down now and probably have some concerns over the security of some of their auctionable goods.
really feel for the business- they are basically shut down now and probably have some concerns over the security of some of their auctionable goods.
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