Travellers.......
Discussion
Josho said:
You need a few hard lads and some Molotov cocktails.
During our last (recent) infestation, a local retired police officer said as much to me. He was of the opinion that this was the only way we'd get rid and stop them coming back.You (not Josho!) can quote as many examples as you like but the bare facts are that to all intents and purposes they are completely above/outside the law. Why, I have absolutely no idea, but it's the case.
A couple of years ago, when we were once again infested, I pulled up alongside a uniformed copper who had stopped by them. I was on my legal, MOTd, insured, taxed enduro bike. As we watched them driving cars across the village green, I pointed out to him that if I followed them on my bike, he'd nick me, wouldn't he, to which he just shrugged. When I asked him why he wasn't nicking them, he made multiple excuses (such as, by the time I get over there, I can't prove which car it was - er, we both just watched it drive over), and the fact that he needed a second officer (er, call one up then), etc. Simply couldn't/wouldn't be arsed. I don't knock the BiB for the sake of it but they really need to grow a pair to deal with this lot.
I don't quite know how to start this post, and I don't mean it to turn into war & peace, but I need to offload it, and hopefully someone legal and/or in authority can advise.
Brief-ish summary. We have had multiple traveller incursions every year in our nice, quaint, peaceful village. All of the above posts relate to the sort of thing we have experienced - crime, filth, open latrines, people being threatened and beaten up, guns being fired, criminal damage, trespass, driving on green spaces - the full pantheon of traveller-incursion experience.
The land they occupy is not owned by the local Parish Council but by the Borough Council. The Parish Council are extremely active in trying to get the travellers removed every time, but they cannot instigate legal proceeding because they don't own the land and the Borough drag their heels and invariably it takes around 10 days to get rid of them, by which time they have comprehensively trashed the area. The Borough also refuse to sell/transfer the land to the Parish.
Sick of this, the residents have got together and arranged a group of people who are prepared to block access to the green by parking cars whenever we are made aware of traveller presence nearby (Kent Police actually call the PC Chairman direct to brief him when this happens). This requires 9 cars to be effective. However, some of the cars need to be parked on double yellows, and two need to be parked on a verge. Bear in mind that this is a residential no-through-road; traffic levels are minimal, so there is no real issue with parking on the yellows and nobody complains because they know why the cars are there. We have done this a few times now and kept the travellers out, even when they are openly scouting under our noses.
The Parish Council are trying to obtain permission from the Borough to erect (and pay for) permanent measures to keep the travellers out (possibly a ditch/bund). However, with the council involved, there are repeated meetings scheduled with no sign of any agreement date so far. This week, two local business owners have offered to place 4 ton concrete blocks along the boundary of the green as a TEMPORARY measure until the council negotiations can be completed and the works implemented.
The Borough Council's response? (An official written response to the Parish Council): If the concrete blocks are placed, they will prosecute for fly tipping. If vehicles are parked, they will send enforcement officers to ticket them all. (This despite the fact that there are double yellows all around the village which are permanently ignored and nobody has ever known any tickets ever be issued). It's as if the Borough are actively trying to prevent the villagers from safeguarding their environment, which in turn will save the Borough masses of money in (repeated) legal eviction costs and in subsequent clean-up and sanitation costs. They may as well issue written invitations to the travellers to rock up.
Sorry for the lengthy post but dozens of us are up in arms about this. Is there any thing we can realistically do? The local press are already all over it.
Brief-ish summary. We have had multiple traveller incursions every year in our nice, quaint, peaceful village. All of the above posts relate to the sort of thing we have experienced - crime, filth, open latrines, people being threatened and beaten up, guns being fired, criminal damage, trespass, driving on green spaces - the full pantheon of traveller-incursion experience.
The land they occupy is not owned by the local Parish Council but by the Borough Council. The Parish Council are extremely active in trying to get the travellers removed every time, but they cannot instigate legal proceeding because they don't own the land and the Borough drag their heels and invariably it takes around 10 days to get rid of them, by which time they have comprehensively trashed the area. The Borough also refuse to sell/transfer the land to the Parish.
Sick of this, the residents have got together and arranged a group of people who are prepared to block access to the green by parking cars whenever we are made aware of traveller presence nearby (Kent Police actually call the PC Chairman direct to brief him when this happens). This requires 9 cars to be effective. However, some of the cars need to be parked on double yellows, and two need to be parked on a verge. Bear in mind that this is a residential no-through-road; traffic levels are minimal, so there is no real issue with parking on the yellows and nobody complains because they know why the cars are there. We have done this a few times now and kept the travellers out, even when they are openly scouting under our noses.
The Parish Council are trying to obtain permission from the Borough to erect (and pay for) permanent measures to keep the travellers out (possibly a ditch/bund). However, with the council involved, there are repeated meetings scheduled with no sign of any agreement date so far. This week, two local business owners have offered to place 4 ton concrete blocks along the boundary of the green as a TEMPORARY measure until the council negotiations can be completed and the works implemented.
The Borough Council's response? (An official written response to the Parish Council): If the concrete blocks are placed, they will prosecute for fly tipping. If vehicles are parked, they will send enforcement officers to ticket them all. (This despite the fact that there are double yellows all around the village which are permanently ignored and nobody has ever known any tickets ever be issued). It's as if the Borough are actively trying to prevent the villagers from safeguarding their environment, which in turn will save the Borough masses of money in (repeated) legal eviction costs and in subsequent clean-up and sanitation costs. They may as well issue written invitations to the travellers to rock up.
Sorry for the lengthy post but dozens of us are up in arms about this. Is there any thing we can realistically do? The local press are already all over it.
CAPP0 said:
I don't quite know how to start this post, and I don't mean it to turn into war & peace, but I need to offload it, and hopefully someone legal and/or in authority can advise.
Brief-ish summary. We have had multiple traveller incursions every year in our nice, quaint, peaceful village. All of the above posts relate to the sort of thing we have experienced - crime, filth, open latrines, people being threatened and beaten up, guns being fired, criminal damage, trespass, driving on green spaces - the full pantheon of traveller-incursion experience.
The land they occupy is not owned by the local Parish Council but by the Borough Council. The Parish Council are extremely active in trying to get the travellers removed every time, but they cannot instigate legal proceeding because they don't own the land and the Borough drag their heels and invariably it takes around 10 days to get rid of them, by which time they have comprehensively trashed the area. The Borough also refuse to sell/transfer the land to the Parish.
Sick of this, the residents have got together and arranged a group of people who are prepared to block access to the green by parking cars whenever we are made aware of traveller presence nearby (Kent Police actually call the PC Chairman direct to brief him when this happens). This requires 9 cars to be effective. However, some of the cars need to be parked on double yellows, and two need to be parked on a verge. Bear in mind that this is a residential no-through-road; traffic levels are minimal, so there is no real issue with parking on the yellows and nobody complains because they know why the cars are there. We have done this a few times now and kept the travellers out, even when they are openly scouting under our noses.
The Parish Council are trying to obtain permission from the Borough to erect (and pay for) permanent measures to keep the travellers out (possibly a ditch/bund). However, with the council involved, there are repeated meetings scheduled with no sign of any agreement date so far. This week, two local business owners have offered to place 4 ton concrete blocks along the boundary of the green as a TEMPORARY measure until the council negotiations can be completed and the works implemented.
The Borough Council's response? (An official written response to the Parish Council): If the concrete blocks are placed, they will prosecute for fly tipping. If vehicles are parked, they will send enforcement officers to ticket them all. (This despite the fact that there are double yellows all around the village which are permanently ignored and nobody has ever known any tickets ever be issued). It's as if the Borough are actively trying to prevent the villagers from safeguarding their environment, which in turn will save the Borough masses of money in (repeated) legal eviction costs and in subsequent clean-up and sanitation costs. They may as well issue written invitations to the travellers to rock up.
Sorry for the lengthy post but dozens of us are up in arms about this. Is there any thing we can realistically do? The local press are already all over it.
They will need proof of who to prosecute someone for fly-tipping, I expect none will be forthcoming?Brief-ish summary. We have had multiple traveller incursions every year in our nice, quaint, peaceful village. All of the above posts relate to the sort of thing we have experienced - crime, filth, open latrines, people being threatened and beaten up, guns being fired, criminal damage, trespass, driving on green spaces - the full pantheon of traveller-incursion experience.
The land they occupy is not owned by the local Parish Council but by the Borough Council. The Parish Council are extremely active in trying to get the travellers removed every time, but they cannot instigate legal proceeding because they don't own the land and the Borough drag their heels and invariably it takes around 10 days to get rid of them, by which time they have comprehensively trashed the area. The Borough also refuse to sell/transfer the land to the Parish.
Sick of this, the residents have got together and arranged a group of people who are prepared to block access to the green by parking cars whenever we are made aware of traveller presence nearby (Kent Police actually call the PC Chairman direct to brief him when this happens). This requires 9 cars to be effective. However, some of the cars need to be parked on double yellows, and two need to be parked on a verge. Bear in mind that this is a residential no-through-road; traffic levels are minimal, so there is no real issue with parking on the yellows and nobody complains because they know why the cars are there. We have done this a few times now and kept the travellers out, even when they are openly scouting under our noses.
The Parish Council are trying to obtain permission from the Borough to erect (and pay for) permanent measures to keep the travellers out (possibly a ditch/bund). However, with the council involved, there are repeated meetings scheduled with no sign of any agreement date so far. This week, two local business owners have offered to place 4 ton concrete blocks along the boundary of the green as a TEMPORARY measure until the council negotiations can be completed and the works implemented.
The Borough Council's response? (An official written response to the Parish Council): If the concrete blocks are placed, they will prosecute for fly tipping. If vehicles are parked, they will send enforcement officers to ticket them all. (This despite the fact that there are double yellows all around the village which are permanently ignored and nobody has ever known any tickets ever be issued). It's as if the Borough are actively trying to prevent the villagers from safeguarding their environment, which in turn will save the Borough masses of money in (repeated) legal eviction costs and in subsequent clean-up and sanitation costs. They may as well issue written invitations to the travellers to rock up.
Sorry for the lengthy post but dozens of us are up in arms about this. Is there any thing we can realistically do? The local press are already all over it.
CAPP0 said:
If vehicles are parked, they will send enforcement officers to ticket them all.
Well, you could remove reg plates for a start and remove all other identifying items from the cars.Then you could do whatever you feel it takes to stop these parking wardens from photographing the cars or issuing tickets.
If there was a big enough group of you to stop them, or at least make them realise how furious you are with them and the council, they'll hopefully either back off, or involve the police, who should hopefully be local and understanding.
It seems that there may be some confusion (on the traveller's part) whether they're actually being made to feel welcome - but whatever method is adopted to establish this, should probably be best adopted under cover of darkness and with co-ordination which doesn't require mobile phone use.
Is there an un/friendly poacher-turned gamekeeper who can assist/advise on appropriate (perhaps traditional) un/welcoming methods? Could you club together and buy appropriate equipment (in cash and from an understanding shop keeper) which would assist in establishing just how welcome these travellers are?
I understand alcohol is also useful in these matters (to remove fingerprints, should you soil the nice new gifts/equipment during demonstrations of how effective powerful modern elastic is, for example).
CAPP0 said:
If vehicles are parked, they will send enforcement officers to ticket them all. (This despite the fact that there are double yellows all around the village which are permanently ignored and nobody has ever known any tickets ever be issued).
Could you club together to "self-insure" against this as a community. Everyone put money into a pot to cover the fines of anyone who gets ticketed, somewhat like the mutuelles des fraudeurs of the Paris metro do similar for fare dodging?It might be worth looking into any legal issues that might arise if you were to prevent these wardens from taking pics - I was thinking large blank demonstration-type hand held signs (light weight, rigid, easy to move quickly in front of cameras).
But just how far do you and the village have to go? Is there any prospect of buying some used cars, providing false details for the V5, cut the VIN plates out etc, then drive them to the place where they're needed and just let them get ticketed and deny knowledge?
You'd have to make sure there was nothing inside or out that could link them to you, and that you didn't drive past any cameras etc.
But just how far do you and the village have to go? Is there any prospect of buying some used cars, providing false details for the V5, cut the VIN plates out etc, then drive them to the place where they're needed and just let them get ticketed and deny knowledge?
You'd have to make sure there was nothing inside or out that could link them to you, and that you didn't drive past any cameras etc.
Buy 6 or 7 caravans.
Park them on the land adjacent to where you would put the cars.
That way it achieves the same.
Council then will take forever to move them as they may think they are the actual travellers
Taking wheels off might make it harder for people to move them in the mean time
Park them on the land adjacent to where you would put the cars.
That way it achieves the same.
Council then will take forever to move them as they may think they are the actual travellers
Taking wheels off might make it harder for people to move them in the mean time
Edited by mikebradford on Wednesday 28th June 19:15
Dig the ditch yourselves.
Nobody admit who did it.
It will take the Borough council a while to get it filled in (they will need to raise quotes and get expenditure clearance, at least a couple of months). May give a bit of time to sort alternative permanent solution.
Do not ask council about any method of closing the site to the bas*ards. Just do it and claim no knowledge.
Little they can do.
Nobody admit who did it.
It will take the Borough council a while to get it filled in (they will need to raise quotes and get expenditure clearance, at least a couple of months). May give a bit of time to sort alternative permanent solution.
Do not ask council about any method of closing the site to the bas*ards. Just do it and claim no knowledge.
Little they can do.
Storer said:
Dig the ditch yourselves.
Nobody admit who did it.
It will take the Borough council a while to get it filled in (they will need to raise quotes and get expenditure clearance, at least a couple of months). May give a bit of time to sort alternative permanent solution.
Do not ask council about any method of closing the site to the bas*ards. Just do it and claim no knowledge.
Little they can do.
Absolutely this.Nobody admit who did it.
It will take the Borough council a while to get it filled in (they will need to raise quotes and get expenditure clearance, at least a couple of months). May give a bit of time to sort alternative permanent solution.
Do not ask council about any method of closing the site to the bas*ards. Just do it and claim no knowledge.
Little they can do.
Do a decent job and they might never notice.
These are all (well, mostly!) good suggestions, thanks, and done we have already considered.
We involved the local press and the Borough have now denied making those statements - despite having made them direct to the Parich Clerk, who's hardly likely to invent those stories for a giggle.
As of this evening, a resident who owns both an international removals firm and an HGV training school, has parked a full-length artic unit and a 20m double removal truck there and basically said "so sue me". Not aesthetically pleasing, but effective, and so far with just one tree-hugging exception the reaction from residents has been universally positive.
We involved the local press and the Borough have now denied making those statements - despite having made them direct to the Parich Clerk, who's hardly likely to invent those stories for a giggle.
As of this evening, a resident who owns both an international removals firm and an HGV training school, has parked a full-length artic unit and a 20m double removal truck there and basically said "so sue me". Not aesthetically pleasing, but effective, and so far with just one tree-hugging exception the reaction from residents has been universally positive.
CAPP0 said:
I don't quite know how to start this post, and I don't mean it to turn into war & peace, but I need to offload it, and hopefully someone legal and/or in authority can advise.
Brief-ish summary. We have had multiple traveller incursions every year in our nice, quaint, peaceful village. All of the above posts relate to the sort of thing we have experienced - crime, filth, open latrines, people being threatened and beaten up, guns being fired, criminal damage, trespass, driving on green spaces - the full pantheon of traveller-incursion experience.
The land they occupy is not owned by the local Parish Council but by the Borough Council. The Parish Council are extremely active in trying to get the travellers removed every time, but they cannot instigate legal proceeding because they don't own the land and the Borough drag their heels and invariably it takes around 10 days to get rid of them, by which time they have comprehensively trashed the area. The Borough also refuse to sell/transfer the land to the Parish.
Sick of this, the residents have got together and arranged a group of people who are prepared to block access to the green by parking cars whenever we are made aware of traveller presence nearby (Kent Police actually call the PC Chairman direct to brief him when this happens). This requires 9 cars to be effective. However, some of the cars need to be parked on double yellows, and two need to be parked on a verge. Bear in mind that this is a residential no-through-road; traffic levels are minimal, so there is no real issue with parking on the yellows and nobody complains because they know why the cars are there. We have done this a few times now and kept the travellers out, even when they are openly scouting under our noses.
The Parish Council are trying to obtain permission from the Borough to erect (and pay for) permanent measures to keep the travellers out (possibly a ditch/bund). However, with the council involved, there are repeated meetings scheduled with no sign of any agreement date so far. This week, two local business owners have offered to place 4 ton concrete blocks along the boundary of the green as a TEMPORARY measure until the council negotiations can be completed and the works implemented.
The Borough Council's response? (An official written response to the Parish Council): If the concrete blocks are placed, they will prosecute for fly tipping. If vehicles are parked, they will send enforcement officers to ticket them all. (This despite the fact that there are double yellows all around the village which are permanently ignored and nobody has ever known any tickets ever be issued). It's as if the Borough are actively trying to prevent the villagers from safeguarding their environment, which in turn will save the Borough masses of money in (repeated) legal eviction costs and in subsequent clean-up and sanitation costs. They may as well issue written invitations to the travellers to rock up.
Sorry for the lengthy post but dozens of us are up in arms about this. Is there any thing we can realistically do? The local press are already all over it.
that's because, like our local council, they are virtue signalling Brief-ish summary. We have had multiple traveller incursions every year in our nice, quaint, peaceful village. All of the above posts relate to the sort of thing we have experienced - crime, filth, open latrines, people being threatened and beaten up, guns being fired, criminal damage, trespass, driving on green spaces - the full pantheon of traveller-incursion experience.
The land they occupy is not owned by the local Parish Council but by the Borough Council. The Parish Council are extremely active in trying to get the travellers removed every time, but they cannot instigate legal proceeding because they don't own the land and the Borough drag their heels and invariably it takes around 10 days to get rid of them, by which time they have comprehensively trashed the area. The Borough also refuse to sell/transfer the land to the Parish.
Sick of this, the residents have got together and arranged a group of people who are prepared to block access to the green by parking cars whenever we are made aware of traveller presence nearby (Kent Police actually call the PC Chairman direct to brief him when this happens). This requires 9 cars to be effective. However, some of the cars need to be parked on double yellows, and two need to be parked on a verge. Bear in mind that this is a residential no-through-road; traffic levels are minimal, so there is no real issue with parking on the yellows and nobody complains because they know why the cars are there. We have done this a few times now and kept the travellers out, even when they are openly scouting under our noses.
The Parish Council are trying to obtain permission from the Borough to erect (and pay for) permanent measures to keep the travellers out (possibly a ditch/bund). However, with the council involved, there are repeated meetings scheduled with no sign of any agreement date so far. This week, two local business owners have offered to place 4 ton concrete blocks along the boundary of the green as a TEMPORARY measure until the council negotiations can be completed and the works implemented.
The Borough Council's response? (An official written response to the Parish Council): If the concrete blocks are placed, they will prosecute for fly tipping. If vehicles are parked, they will send enforcement officers to ticket them all. (This despite the fact that there are double yellows all around the village which are permanently ignored and nobody has ever known any tickets ever be issued). It's as if the Borough are actively trying to prevent the villagers from safeguarding their environment, which in turn will save the Borough masses of money in (repeated) legal eviction costs and in subsequent clean-up and sanitation costs. They may as well issue written invitations to the travellers to rock up.
Sorry for the lengthy post but dozens of us are up in arms about this. Is there any thing we can realistically do? The local press are already all over it.
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