Massively overcharged - best way forward
Discussion
While redecorating the house, we had a gas fire removed a couple of weeks ago and the company that supplied the engineers have overcharged us massively: they've taken £471 for what should have been a 20 minute job. We'd been let down by two other gas fitters so called this company who said it would be a £98 + VAT call-out charge plus parts. Given that the only part required is a £3.50 pipe end cap then it should have been £125 max.
The gas fitter and his junior/apprentice they sent didn't know what they were here to do, didn't have the tools and didn't have the parts. The senior fitter didn't seem to have a clue how to disassemble the fire and we had to lend them tools and point out screws that needed undoing. Once they got the fire removed it turned out that they didn't have any end caps to fit the pipe they were supposed to be capping. He did suggest just crimping the end of the pipe but my decorator noted that not only was that unsafe it was also illegal. So off they had to go to buy one (unknown to us they went to Derby, a round trip of 50 miles!). While they were out we realised they were getting the wrong size so we called the company who would not pass on a message to them to this effect ("They're professionals, they know what they're doing," was the patronising response). So they had to go out again to get the right size (this time we told them to go to the local B&Q 15 minutes up the road).
In all, a 20 minute job turned into 2.5 hours plus an unnecessary 60 miles of (no doubt) billable travel. The fitters were told in no uncertain terms that we should not be billed beyond the agreed call-out charge as the additional time was wholly their own fault for coming unprepared; clearly they, or the company that contracted them, have decided otherwise.
The bill was charged to a Visa debit card and we will be disputing the overcharge with our bank. My concern is that as we are only disputing the amount, not the whole charge the bank won't be able to do anything. I've since done some digging on the company and they have an appalling reputation for this sort of thing as well as threatening to charge cancellation fees to customers even after their fitters have failed to turn up. Clearly they are unprincipled scum, so the planned call to ask them to refund the overcharge is likely to get us nowhere.
So, if the bank are unable to return the money and the company refuses, is this a small claims court job, or does it require a solicitor?
The gas fitter and his junior/apprentice they sent didn't know what they were here to do, didn't have the tools and didn't have the parts. The senior fitter didn't seem to have a clue how to disassemble the fire and we had to lend them tools and point out screws that needed undoing. Once they got the fire removed it turned out that they didn't have any end caps to fit the pipe they were supposed to be capping. He did suggest just crimping the end of the pipe but my decorator noted that not only was that unsafe it was also illegal. So off they had to go to buy one (unknown to us they went to Derby, a round trip of 50 miles!). While they were out we realised they were getting the wrong size so we called the company who would not pass on a message to them to this effect ("They're professionals, they know what they're doing," was the patronising response). So they had to go out again to get the right size (this time we told them to go to the local B&Q 15 minutes up the road).
In all, a 20 minute job turned into 2.5 hours plus an unnecessary 60 miles of (no doubt) billable travel. The fitters were told in no uncertain terms that we should not be billed beyond the agreed call-out charge as the additional time was wholly their own fault for coming unprepared; clearly they, or the company that contracted them, have decided otherwise.
The bill was charged to a Visa debit card and we will be disputing the overcharge with our bank. My concern is that as we are only disputing the amount, not the whole charge the bank won't be able to do anything. I've since done some digging on the company and they have an appalling reputation for this sort of thing as well as threatening to charge cancellation fees to customers even after their fitters have failed to turn up. Clearly they are unprincipled scum, so the planned call to ask them to refund the overcharge is likely to get us nowhere.
So, if the bank are unable to return the money and the company refuses, is this a small claims court job, or does it require a solicitor?
No paperwork, all done over the phone, but the T&Cs on their website state the £98 + VAT is for the first hour:
Gas Company said:
We charge per hour on site at the price quoted, and a minimum of one hours labour will apply once the engineer has attended site (The hours labour will also apply if we attend site and are turned away due to the problem being sorted, with no prior notice). Our minimum charge for the first hours labour is £98.00 + VAT(emergencies, weekends and evenings are charged higher) Once the Job has been booked in any cancellations will be charged at £45 + VAT
Minimum charge is £98 + VAT. Sounds like they have charged you for the 2.5 hours, plus a bit, and in fairness that is what is in the T&Cs. It mught be unfair, as they wasted most of that getting parts they should have had, but the charge itself is probably justifiable on a time spent basis.
I think you'll struggle, however I would ask for a detailed breakdown of the bill and see what you have been charged for. Most companies would be affiliated to a trade body so maybe they can help.
I think you'll struggle, however I would ask for a detailed breakdown of the bill and see what you have been charged for. Most companies would be affiliated to a trade body so maybe they can help.
I'd argue they'd have hard time justifying the charge given that they were told explicitly what the fitters were required to do when they were engaged. If they withheld this information from the team they sent out resulting in them being unprepared for the job then that is wholly on them.
judas said:
I'd argue they'd have hard time justifying the charge given that they were told explicitly what the fitters were required to do when they were engaged. If they withheld this information from the team they sent out resulting in them being unprepared for the job then that is wholly on them.
I would agree with you, but equally, I can just picture the scene where the fitters have got their workforce allocation software linked into the company billing system, and the person you are speaking to on the phone clearly doesn't have the authority to override what the system is saying - "It says they took 2.5 hours and the cost of parts so that is what you have been billed for" - they won't be in a position to know, much less care, about how the work was scheduled, you are now talking to "Billing" rather than "Scheduling" and they don't talk to each other because their desks are probably 10-20 feet apart.Shakermaker said:
judas said:
I'd argue they'd have hard time justifying the charge given that they were told explicitly what the fitters were required to do when they were engaged. If they withheld this information from the team they sent out resulting in them being unprepared for the job then that is wholly on them.
I would agree with you, but equally, I can just picture the scene where the fitters have got their workforce allocation software linked into the company billing system, and the person you are speaking to on the phone clearly doesn't have the authority to override what the system is saying - "It says they took 2.5 hours and the cost of parts so that is what you have been billed for" - they won't be in a position to know, much less care, about how the work was scheduled, you are now talking to "Billing" rather than "Scheduling" and they don't talk to each other because their desks are probably 10-20 feet apart.
First thing to do is to of course ring them. Without giving them the opportunity to make good on what you consider to be their mistake, you would be wrong to go any further, regardless of their reputation from your digging around I would say you have to log your concerns with them first of all.
If that doesn't get you anywhere, start going further.
If that doesn't get you anywhere, start going further.
Shakermaker said:
First thing to do is to of course ring them. Without giving them the opportunity to make good on what you consider to be their mistake, you would be wrong to go any further, regardless of their reputation from your digging around I would say you have to log your concerns with them first of all.
If that doesn't get you anywhere, start going further.
If that doesn't get you anywhere, start going further.
This. If you get no joy then it's time to go the report/chargeback/small claims/send the boys round route.
judas said:
While redecorating the house, we had a gas fire removed a couple of weeks ago and the company that supplied the engineers have overcharged us massively: they've taken £471 for what should have been a 20 minute job. We'd been let down by two other gas fitters so called this company who said it would be a £98 + VAT call-out charge plus parts. Given that the only part required is a £3.50 pipe end cap then it should have been £125 max.
The gas fitter and his junior/apprentice they sent didn't know what they were here to do, didn't have the tools and didn't have the parts. The senior fitter didn't seem to have a clue how to disassemble the fire and we had to lend them tools and point out screws that needed undoing. Once they got the fire removed it turned out that they didn't have any end caps to fit the pipe they were supposed to be capping. He did suggest just crimping the end of the pipe but my decorator noted that not only was that unsafe it was also illegal. So off they had to go to buy one (unknown to us they went to Derby, a round trip of 50 miles!). While they were out we realised they were getting the wrong size so we called the company who would not pass on a message to them to this effect ("They're professionals, they know what they're doing," was the patronising response). So they had to go out again to get the right size (this time we told them to go to the local B&Q 15 minutes up the road).
In all, a 20 minute job turned into 2.5 hours plus an unnecessary 60 miles of (no doubt) billable travel. The fitters were told in no uncertain terms that we should not be billed beyond the agreed call-out charge as the additional time was wholly their own fault for coming unprepared; clearly they, or the company that contracted them, have decided otherwise.
The bill was charged to a Visa debit card and we will be disputing the overcharge with our bank. My concern is that as we are only disputing the amount, not the whole charge the bank won't be able to do anything. I've since done some digging on the company and they have an appalling reputation for this sort of thing as well as threatening to charge cancellation fees to customers even after their fitters have failed to turn up. Clearly they are unprincipled scum, so the planned call to ask them to refund the overcharge is likely to get us nowhere.
So, if the bank are unable to return the money and the company refuses, is this a small claims court job, or does it require a solicitor?
Not much help from me I'm afraid, but I learned a big lesson when I tried to find someone to fit our new cooker (needed gas fitter to supply and attach a hose to the existing bayonet fitting).The gas fitter and his junior/apprentice they sent didn't know what they were here to do, didn't have the tools and didn't have the parts. The senior fitter didn't seem to have a clue how to disassemble the fire and we had to lend them tools and point out screws that needed undoing. Once they got the fire removed it turned out that they didn't have any end caps to fit the pipe they were supposed to be capping. He did suggest just crimping the end of the pipe but my decorator noted that not only was that unsafe it was also illegal. So off they had to go to buy one (unknown to us they went to Derby, a round trip of 50 miles!). While they were out we realised they were getting the wrong size so we called the company who would not pass on a message to them to this effect ("They're professionals, they know what they're doing," was the patronising response). So they had to go out again to get the right size (this time we told them to go to the local B&Q 15 minutes up the road).
In all, a 20 minute job turned into 2.5 hours plus an unnecessary 60 miles of (no doubt) billable travel. The fitters were told in no uncertain terms that we should not be billed beyond the agreed call-out charge as the additional time was wholly their own fault for coming unprepared; clearly they, or the company that contracted them, have decided otherwise.
The bill was charged to a Visa debit card and we will be disputing the overcharge with our bank. My concern is that as we are only disputing the amount, not the whole charge the bank won't be able to do anything. I've since done some digging on the company and they have an appalling reputation for this sort of thing as well as threatening to charge cancellation fees to customers even after their fitters have failed to turn up. Clearly they are unprincipled scum, so the planned call to ask them to refund the overcharge is likely to get us nowhere.
So, if the bank are unable to return the money and the company refuses, is this a small claims court job, or does it require a solicitor?
I went to the internet, found a company that could provide the service from the top of the list who provides cover in my area. Turns out he comes from 35 miles away, doesn't have part (what was a standard hose, that I told them they'd need to bring), stays as long as possible (starts randomly fiddling around with the griddles and grill pans) then won't return as "he cannot source part". Lots of complaints to company who back this up and say tough when they present me with a £100+ bill for basically nothing.
What I learned then was (after sucking up the cost and ordering and fitting my own hose) always use a local guy who can pop round and sort you out, and can return if they don't have what you need, not a big company that outsources to a random fitter from miles away who don't really want the job as it's not worth their while travelling the distance for a 20 min job.
Was the fitter actually gassafe registered?
check here
https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/find-an-engineer...
It's not unknown for fitters to be faking registration, as seen on Watchdog etc
check here
https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/find-an-engineer...
It's not unknown for fitters to be faking registration, as seen on Watchdog etc
CoolHands said:
Was the fitter actually gassafe registered?
check here
https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/find-an-engineer...
It's not unknown for fitters to be faking registration, as seen on Watchdog etc
The gas safety certificate they issued is at home, will have to check this evening. Given that the company we engaged offers national coverage, if they are using unregistered fitters, or are unregistered themselves, they will be in a whole world of scheck here
https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/find-an-engineer...
It's not unknown for fitters to be faking registration, as seen on Watchdog etc
t.Shakermaker said:
First thing to do is to of course ring them. Without giving them the opportunity to make good on what you consider to be their mistake, you would be wrong to go any further, regardless of their reputation from your digging around I would say you have to log your concerns with them first of all.
If that doesn't get you anywhere, start going further.
My wife is dealing with the calls. So far, no one's answering at the company and she's in hold music hell with the bank If that doesn't get you anywhere, start going further.
judas said:
While redecorating the house, we had a gas fire removed a couple of weeks ago and the company that supplied the engineers have overcharged us massively: they've taken £471 for what should have been a 20 minute job. We'd been let down by two other gas fitters so called this company who said it would be a £98 + VAT call-out charge plus parts. Given that the only part required is a £3.50 pipe end cap then it should have been £125 max.
The gas fitter and his junior/apprentice they sent didn't know what they were here to do, didn't have the tools and didn't have the parts. The senior fitter didn't seem to have a clue how to disassemble the fire and we had to lend them tools and point out screws that needed undoing. Once they got the fire removed it turned out that they didn't have any end caps to fit the pipe they were supposed to be capping. He did suggest just crimping the end of the pipe but my decorator noted that not only was that unsafe it was also illegal. So off they had to go to buy one (unknown to us they went to Derby, a round trip of 50 miles!). While they were out we realised they were getting the wrong size so we called the company who would not pass on a message to them to this effect ("They're professionals, they know what they're doing," was the patronising response). So they had to go out again to get the right size (this time we told them to go to the local B&Q 15 minutes up the road).
In all, a 20 minute job turned into 2.5 hours plus an unnecessary 60 miles of (no doubt) billable travel. The fitters were told in no uncertain terms that we should not be billed beyond the agreed call-out charge as the additional time was wholly their own fault for coming unprepared; clearly they, or the company that contracted them, have decided otherwise.
The bill was charged to a Visa debit card and we will be disputing the overcharge with our bank. My concern is that as we are only disputing the amount, not the whole charge the bank won't be able to do anything. I've since done some digging on the company and they have an appalling reputation for this sort of thing as well as threatening to charge cancellation fees to customers even after their fitters have failed to turn up. Clearly they are unprincipled scum, so the planned call to ask them to refund the overcharge is likely to get us nowhere.
So, if the bank are unable to return the money and the company refuses, is this a small claims court job, or does it require a solicitor?
Highlighted in bold, this needs reporting to Gas Safe for even being uttered! If they've thought it out loud, they've done it somewhere, and is not only reportable to Gas Safe but also HSE under RIDDOR if discovered (is classified as an open end on gas pipework). Their recent work probably deserves some closer inspection.The gas fitter and his junior/apprentice they sent didn't know what they were here to do, didn't have the tools and didn't have the parts. The senior fitter didn't seem to have a clue how to disassemble the fire and we had to lend them tools and point out screws that needed undoing. Once they got the fire removed it turned out that they didn't have any end caps to fit the pipe they were supposed to be capping. He did suggest just crimping the end of the pipe but my decorator noted that not only was that unsafe it was also illegal. So off they had to go to buy one (unknown to us they went to Derby, a round trip of 50 miles!). While they were out we realised they were getting the wrong size so we called the company who would not pass on a message to them to this effect ("They're professionals, they know what they're doing," was the patronising response). So they had to go out again to get the right size (this time we told them to go to the local B&Q 15 minutes up the road).
In all, a 20 minute job turned into 2.5 hours plus an unnecessary 60 miles of (no doubt) billable travel. The fitters were told in no uncertain terms that we should not be billed beyond the agreed call-out charge as the additional time was wholly their own fault for coming unprepared; clearly they, or the company that contracted them, have decided otherwise.
The bill was charged to a Visa debit card and we will be disputing the overcharge with our bank. My concern is that as we are only disputing the amount, not the whole charge the bank won't be able to do anything. I've since done some digging on the company and they have an appalling reputation for this sort of thing as well as threatening to charge cancellation fees to customers even after their fitters have failed to turn up. Clearly they are unprincipled scum, so the planned call to ask them to refund the overcharge is likely to get us nowhere.
So, if the bank are unable to return the money and the company refuses, is this a small claims court job, or does it require a solicitor?
Feel free to PM me the Gas Safe number and I'll log in and have a nose. Company and Engineer if you can locate on your cert or job sheet.
judas said:
He did suggest just crimping the end of the pipe but my decorator noted that not only was that unsafe it was also illegal.
From this I'd say not Gas Safe registered and if they're claiming to be / are then they should be investigated and/or struck off.Report them, or at least threaten too unless they reduce you bill significantly.
2lefthands said:
Highlighted in bold, this needs reporting to Gas Safe for even being uttered! If they've thought it out loud, they've done it somewhere, and is not only reportable to Gas Safe but also HSE under RIDDOR if discovered (is classified as an open end on gas pipework). Their recent work probably deserves some closer inspection.
Feel free to PM me the Gas Safe number and I'll log in and have a nose. Company and Engineer if you can locate on your cert or job sheet.
I thought as much, and thanks info in the other thread and for the offer - I'll send it over this evening.Feel free to PM me the Gas Safe number and I'll log in and have a nose. Company and Engineer if you can locate on your cert or job sheet.
Another question: I seem to recall that the fitter supplied the registration number of the contracting company but not one for himself? Is this acceptable?
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